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I doubt we keep our backline as small
2023 Round 1 - Starting 22
- Thread starter jaffa23
- Start date
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frizzle
Norm Smith Medallist
Backs - Quaynor Frampton Howe
H/Backs - Maynard Moore Pendles
Centres - J.Daicos De Goey N.Daicos
H/Forwards - Hill McStay Elliott
Forwards - Ginnivan Johnson Mihocek
Rucks - Cox Crisp Mitchell
Int - Sidebottom Lipinski Krueger Adams Murphy - If 5 interchange players next year
Emergency - Noble McRae Mcreery
I prefer Cox over Cameron. Watching Cameron getting manhandled by the likes of Hickey & Draper told me that he can’t be our first ruck while Cox is available. Opposition rucks had no respect for Cameron as a ruckman at all. He was ragdolled far too often.
Tough side to pick & competition for spots will be fierce. Mcreery & Hill is an interesting one. I just think Hill will rove packs better even though he won’t have Mcreery’s tackling skills.
This is how I see us lining up early in the season. But it won’t necessarily be the same later in the year. I’m not a McStay fan right now, so it will be interesting if he can have an impact on the scoreboard. I like what Krueger brings but he needs consistent games without injury to settle into the team. But both of those guys will hit packs when required. So the likes of Hill, Mcreery & Ginnivan must get to the fall of the ball & take advantage.
I’m bullish about our 2023 season.
H/Backs - Maynard Moore Pendles
Centres - J.Daicos De Goey N.Daicos
H/Forwards - Hill McStay Elliott
Forwards - Ginnivan Johnson Mihocek
Rucks - Cox Crisp Mitchell
Int - Sidebottom Lipinski Krueger Adams Murphy - If 5 interchange players next year
Emergency - Noble McRae Mcreery
I prefer Cox over Cameron. Watching Cameron getting manhandled by the likes of Hickey & Draper told me that he can’t be our first ruck while Cox is available. Opposition rucks had no respect for Cameron as a ruckman at all. He was ragdolled far too often.
Tough side to pick & competition for spots will be fierce. Mcreery & Hill is an interesting one. I just think Hill will rove packs better even though he won’t have Mcreery’s tackling skills.
This is how I see us lining up early in the season. But it won’t necessarily be the same later in the year. I’m not a McStay fan right now, so it will be interesting if he can have an impact on the scoreboard. I like what Krueger brings but he needs consistent games without injury to settle into the team. But both of those guys will hit packs when required. So the likes of Hill, Mcreery & Ginnivan must get to the fall of the ball & take advantage.
I’m bullish about our 2023 season.
Be hard pressed to find many better centrelines than this…
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The big question for ‘23 is who takes Ollie’s spot in your, er, list?
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I have Johnson in for that reason. Build his tank and he can play that ruck role around the ground. Awesome leap
Buckleys_Chance
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Thanks everyone for their suggestions. It definitely raises some good questions.
I’d like to see Frampton in our backline as he proved the height we lack and is mobile and attacking, which fits our game plan. However, he seems to be a very similar player to Moore meaning we are lacking that big lock down defender that Roughead provided. This may mean Dean beats him to a spot (though he lacks the height but I haven’t seen enough of him to comment on his pros and cons).
The forward line is really interesting. I don’t know about Hills defensive pressure but he seems to be in competition with Ginni rather than McCreery, as McCreery is our specialist defensive forward who really hurts on the turn over. Will be interesting to see how this plays out and particularly where the coaches put hill because I can’t see either McCreery or Ginni out of the starting 22. I think Johnson is probably at greatest risk of getting dropped because he has lacks a defensive side to his game. While McStay could play the Roughead roll I’m hoping he is at Collingwood to provide a big forward target this year and be the foil to a big fish KPP target in 2024. Frampton a chance to play forward if McStay goes back but I don’t like this at all and hope it doesn’t happen.
Mitchell’s addition to our midfield is immediate best 22 but again don’t know who he pushes out.
All in all our selection pressure is a really good problem to have and we are in a much better place list wise than 2022, where we were only a kick away from a GF shot. I’m very excited about 2023.
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I’d like to see Frampton in our backline as he proved the height we lack and is mobile and attacking, which fits our game plan. However, he seems to be a very similar player to Moore meaning we are lacking that big lock down defender that Roughead provided. This may mean Dean beats him to a spot (though he lacks the height but I haven’t seen enough of him to comment on his pros and cons).
The forward line is really interesting. I don’t know about Hills defensive pressure but he seems to be in competition with Ginni rather than McCreery, as McCreery is our specialist defensive forward who really hurts on the turn over. Will be interesting to see how this plays out and particularly where the coaches put hill because I can’t see either McCreery or Ginni out of the starting 22. I think Johnson is probably at greatest risk of getting dropped because he has lacks a defensive side to his game. While McStay could play the Roughead roll I’m hoping he is at Collingwood to provide a big forward target this year and be the foil to a big fish KPP target in 2024. Frampton a chance to play forward if McStay goes back but I don’t like this at all and hope it doesn’t happen.
Mitchell’s addition to our midfield is immediate best 22 but again don’t know who he pushes out.
All in all our selection pressure is a really good problem to have and we are in a much better place list wise than 2022, where we were only a kick away from a GF shot. I’m very excited about 2023.
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- May 18, 2022
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HUN have made a safe but measured prediction.
Kreuger plays so well, I'd almost lock him in. The way he competed against Sydney in the final quarter was second to none. I have never seen someone who plays with more dare. And that may be his undoing so he needs to be careful and aim to play most of the season.
For ruck duties, I expect us to play two in some capacity, especially if we have a bench of five. Cox showed he's a strong VFL ruck so will be challenging for the number one gig. Even at over 30, he can certainly contribute and challenge Cameron. He's a headache for teams at the very least and good depth to have. Frampton and McStay may also push for this position.
Think we'll see Frampton playing in defence, Murphy out of the side. Frampton is taller and we need him to be playing down there to alleviate Moore's responsibilities. However, it's a little sub battle that pre-season will hold. Howe's body is on a knife's edge, too so Dean may well be needed throughout the season.
I understand why they listed Hill, although he's a little unknown for me at this stage. Think he may play 7-12 games next year as he looks to lock down a spot.
But my other oddball prediction is that Harvey Harrison will become much better known than what he is. There's something very special about him.
But the thing to take away from this is that every position has someone vying for a spot. No one is safe. It's very interesting that WHE doesn't even rate a mention ... number of posters would be partying about this. Elliott, Mihocek, McCreery could be very much under fire if they're not performing as Macrae, McInnes and Carmichael will continue to challenge and push players out.
With professional sport, the best teams are the teams that find a way to manage and effectively unleash the six or seven players who aren't starters but want that place. They will fight so much harder than the kids who are guaranteed a game. Our VFL squad should also be considerably better, helping to improve AFL standard.
When you begin to look at how deep our list is, I start to see maybe there is light to letting Ollie Henry go as it allows someone who genuinely wants to play a spot in the team.
Everyones battling Murphy vs Frampton. Which is fine
I actually feel Murphy will replace howes position in a couple of seasons. Howe has every right to be named round 1 , been battling out his size depth year after year.
Intsresting, these additions are adding depth all over the ground
I actually feel Murphy will replace howes position in a couple of seasons. Howe has every right to be named round 1 , been battling out his size depth year after year.
Intsresting, these additions are adding depth all over the ground
Jen2310
Moderator
- Moderator
- #159
I've thought twice about this. The coaches probably will go with the same ruck set up. It has worked this year. And probably want Mcstay predominant in the fwd line..
Maynard. Frampton/Murphy. Howe
Quaynor. Moore. Pendles
Sidebottom. Mitchell. Jaicos
Elliott. Mihocek. Lippa
Naicos. Mcstay. McCreery
Cameron. De Goey. Crisp
Int: Cox, Noble, Ginnivan, Adams, Kreuger/Johnson/WHE (competing for the possible 5th spot)
Hill is probably competing with Beau. WHE prob ahead for that marking forward role ahead of Kreuger/Johnson.
Maynard. Frampton/Murphy. Howe
Quaynor. Moore. Pendles
Sidebottom. Mitchell. Jaicos
Elliott. Mihocek. Lippa
Naicos. Mcstay. McCreery
Cameron. De Goey. Crisp
Int: Cox, Noble, Ginnivan, Adams, Kreuger/Johnson/WHE (competing for the possible 5th spot)
Hill is probably competing with Beau. WHE prob ahead for that marking forward role ahead of Kreuger/Johnson.
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Cox is easily our best tap ruckman and is learning to be more physical. Will only improve in that position the more he plays in it.
Add Carmichael to your list , I believe he has it in him to be a very productive mid for us moving forward, has the most required quality to be a consistent and constant performer , and that is , he knows how to find the ball regularly, very good reader of the play
Yes , he is a threat as a forward also , natural footballer , if he puts in a solid block of pre-season training together this off season , and going by how has conducted himself thus far with his commitment and dedication to the tasks set for him , I see him entrenched in our best 22 each week for many seasons .
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Never thought the worst post for season 2023 would come so early.
That might be in the twitterverse but there's been some doozies posted on here in the last few months and bound to be more
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Ignore it Jen, it’s just a Marc Murphy burner account
jmac70
On the porch
I’ll give it a go…
IQ Fram Bruz
How high Mr. Darcy Crispy Cream
Sidebum The Champ Josh
Jordy Macca Nick
Sick Boy Checkers Jamie
Foll: Big Cox, Tay Tay, Tom
Int: Pressure King, The Lipinski File, Hyphen, Nob
Sub: Bobby
IQ Fram Bruz
How high Mr. Darcy Crispy Cream
Sidebum The Champ Josh
Jordy Macca Nick
Sick Boy Checkers Jamie
Foll: Big Cox, Tay Tay, Tom
Int: Pressure King, The Lipinski File, Hyphen, Nob
Sub: Bobby
Maybe. We’ll see after pre-season. Dean is an effective nullifying defender whereas Frampton by all reports is an interceptor/rebounder who is not very good at one-on-one defending. Which of those two types would you rather have playing at Full Back?
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Gone Critical
Moderator
- Moderator
- #172
I think you have got this pretty right. I agree 2 rucks is still the way to go. Fly may not be very pro ruck but that doesnt men he wants to leave us exposed also. Kreuger has almost no ruck experience and McStay very little. McStay and Kreuger, if he is in the 22, will be the extra big man boost our forward line needs but even then we are still not that big. Advantage of Cox and Cameron is they are both able to take contested marks in F50 and both are goos set shots for goal, rare in rucks.
Kreuger and Johnson both have so little AFL experience they cant be locked in but both showed soem exciting qualities. Hopefully at least 1 of them turns that into a best 22 spot. Similarly Beau and Hill will be locked in a battle, both currently low production, Hill looks more likely to step that up and become better that a goal a game but Beau will be the better pressure forward. If either steps up production they will claim that spot assuming Ginny continues with what he has done so far.
Down back I would slot Dean in as most likely for FB and then Kelly and Frampton as the depth options. Kelly still has time to step it up but must do it this year. He was making a better contribution in 2nd half of VFL season in 22. Still think jhe is unlikely. Of the 3 Dean has the superior record in the lower comp, SANFL v VFL and is youngest with more development left. Given he was looking likely at the start of 22 I would be comfortable he is a good chance to become AFL relevent which I think is unlikely with the other 2. Still we have a few options over the ground. Looks good for 23
Reckon WHE and Sidey will be good for most of 23 but its near the end for both and likewise Pendles, he cant go forever and it would be good to see him overtaken for influence by the young veterans. With injuries there will be a few extra spots each week so some that we all have borderline will find opportunities for a best 22 push
Big year for the 19, 20 and 21 recruits. Bar ND, Ginny and Beau none are very safe. All of Macrae, Mcinnes, Draper, Harrison, Bianco, Murley, Begg, Kelly, Wilson, Ruscoe and Poulter need to become AFL relevent soon. Given we have an older experienced 22 and are going that way even moreso in 23 there may not be that many opportunities for the non established guys if we dont have injuries so they will need to take their chances. We need some of them to step up soon.
Gone Critical
Moderator
- Moderator
- #173
I would favour Dean but truth is all 3, Dean, Kelly and Frampton are uncertain AFL players. None have ever been best 22. With McStay and Mitchell we know they will be best 22 and Hill has enough history to say its likely. These 3 may end up none being good enough and our set up of 22 could still be preferred. I think Deans the likely one though and am a bit bullish on him.
Giving at a crack, but no easy task these days which is nice given the lack of depth and competition we've had for spots in previous years.
Quaynor Frampton Howe
Maynard Moore NDaicos
Cameron Mitchell Adams
J Daicos DeGoey Crisp
Elliott McStay Mihocek
Hill Kreuger Ginnivan
Pendlebury, Noble, Lipinski, McCreery
5th I/C or Sub - Sidebottom
Emg: Cox, Johnson, Murphy, WHE, the "kids"
As hard as it is to say, we really need to see a youngster take over from Howe and Sidey this year. This a year we need those youngsters that have been on the list 2-4 years now to stake their claim in the best 22 and force the clubs hand on ageing guys like these. Nothing but love for Howe and Steele, but both 32 at the Round 1 next year means we are much closer to the end than the start for both. Pendles is a clear exception, however would love for the goat to start feeling the pressure from the young brigade in his twilight years (something I think he would relish and try to foster).
A few simple points:
- Went Frampton over Murphy/Dean at this point, simply based on the clubs expressing it wanting more height in the D50 and seemed to specifically target Frampton for the role. While I'm not overly sold on him, Frampton appears to have been "cherry picked" for that role and at this stage I'm prepared to back Leppa and Fly to get the best out of him
- Cameron over Cox for mine. Played some dominant footy as the ruck in patches, and if he can narrow the gap between his best and worst games he'll be fine as our number 1 ruck. With Mcstay and Kreugs in our forward line, one can certainly chop out DC14 in the ruck, and relieves Mihocek having the 2 big bodies i50. Additionally all 3 of Mcstay/Kreugs/DC14 are capable of taking marks and kicking goals, so the luxury of rotating the three around as needed is to exciting for me to ignore at this stage
- Having all 4 of DC14/DMC/Checkers/Kreugs means we need strong ground level representation. We know Ginni/Jamie are more pseudo talls, who lead and make their own space, but having the 4 KPP's means having both Hill and Beau are required imo. From what I've seen I would have Bobby as the better front'n'centre player while Beau is a far more dominant pressure player than Hill, both have traits that balance the other out so they're both in the side for me at this stage.
- Giving Reef and Finn separate mentions here. Played a few games between them in 2021/22, but I would love to see them break out this year and demand a spot every week in the side through strong VFL performances. These 2 should be the guys forcing themselves into the 22 every round, or at least having those in the 22 continually looking over their shoulders.
Quaynor Frampton Howe
Maynard Moore NDaicos
Cameron Mitchell Adams
J Daicos DeGoey Crisp
Elliott McStay Mihocek
Hill Kreuger Ginnivan
Pendlebury, Noble, Lipinski, McCreery
5th I/C or Sub - Sidebottom
Emg: Cox, Johnson, Murphy, WHE, the "kids"
As hard as it is to say, we really need to see a youngster take over from Howe and Sidey this year. This a year we need those youngsters that have been on the list 2-4 years now to stake their claim in the best 22 and force the clubs hand on ageing guys like these. Nothing but love for Howe and Steele, but both 32 at the Round 1 next year means we are much closer to the end than the start for both. Pendles is a clear exception, however would love for the goat to start feeling the pressure from the young brigade in his twilight years (something I think he would relish and try to foster).
A few simple points:
- Went Frampton over Murphy/Dean at this point, simply based on the clubs expressing it wanting more height in the D50 and seemed to specifically target Frampton for the role. While I'm not overly sold on him, Frampton appears to have been "cherry picked" for that role and at this stage I'm prepared to back Leppa and Fly to get the best out of him
- Cameron over Cox for mine. Played some dominant footy as the ruck in patches, and if he can narrow the gap between his best and worst games he'll be fine as our number 1 ruck. With Mcstay and Kreugs in our forward line, one can certainly chop out DC14 in the ruck, and relieves Mihocek having the 2 big bodies i50. Additionally all 3 of Mcstay/Kreugs/DC14 are capable of taking marks and kicking goals, so the luxury of rotating the three around as needed is to exciting for me to ignore at this stage
- Having all 4 of DC14/DMC/Checkers/Kreugs means we need strong ground level representation. We know Ginni/Jamie are more pseudo talls, who lead and make their own space, but having the 4 KPP's means having both Hill and Beau are required imo. From what I've seen I would have Bobby as the better front'n'centre player while Beau is a far more dominant pressure player than Hill, both have traits that balance the other out so they're both in the side for me at this stage.
- Giving Reef and Finn separate mentions here. Played a few games between them in 2021/22, but I would love to see them break out this year and demand a spot every week in the side through strong VFL performances. These 2 should be the guys forcing themselves into the 22 every round, or at least having those in the 22 continually looking over their shoulders.
Cousin of Daicos
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So…Titch and Tay essentially play the same role. That’s fine. It’s great to have depth in just about any role/position.
Issue is, neither player is one most would consider a “depth option” (even though I personally see Tay as depth with the arrival of Titch).
Having said that, Tay’s injury makes things interesting.
Does completely tearing your groin off the bone mean he will always have trouble with his groin? Or was it one of those “it’s actually a good thing” situations where it completely resets the muscle and allows it to fully heal/reset rather than niggling him constantly like it has through his career?
Issue is, neither player is one most would consider a “depth option” (even though I personally see Tay as depth with the arrival of Titch).
Having said that, Tay’s injury makes things interesting.
Does completely tearing your groin off the bone mean he will always have trouble with his groin? Or was it one of those “it’s actually a good thing” situations where it completely resets the muscle and allows it to fully heal/reset rather than niggling him constantly like it has through his career?
