Covid 19 (OPEN DISCUSSION)

[Godfather32]

Sorry in advance for the multiquote

I understand your thoughts and to an extent agree.
Regardless of whatever reason people would like to choose to not get it surely it's their right to choose not to.
This is really the first time in our nation's history that it's been so dramatically forced upon us.
Think about it.

People are being forced out of their jobs because they don't want a vaccine.

I was threatened with losing, my job if I didn't get it.
My boss' words were "we will lock you or of the office and your employment will be abandoned"

Good, it's being done to prevent the spread of covid in the workplace.
I, and I imagine the majority of people, would be f**king pissed if someone I sat next to at work who refused to get vaccinated gave me covid.

A friend of mine has been cut off from her lifelong friend (since 4 years old) because she isn't getting vaccinated.
This is partly because of the rhetoric in society led by our governments right now that is allowing and even fostering this.

It's nothing to do with the rhetoric in society, it's because people don't want to f**king get a mostly preventable disease which often has long-term consequences off someone who could quite easily have been vaccinated.

My own extended family had a Facebook fight over it and some of them don't talk to each other any more.
What a sad place we are in now.

Agreed, in the same position with my Dad's wife

Whether or not it's logical or the best course of action and it's safe as fu** (which nobody can guarantee) or people believe in fairy tales about it is totally irrelevant, it's always been and should still be people's choice in our country to receive a medical procedure to the extent of injection a vaccine in our bodies.

Until now.

Not true, children have been in the same boat for quite some time, not allowed to attend school unless vaccinations are up to date.
Same freedom as you have now.

 

[Moose1414]

Is it though ?

newsGP - TGA updates post-COVID vaccine myocarditis rates

As many of Australia’s remaining vaccine-hesitant patients express concerns over rare side effects associated with mRNA vaccines, the TGA has broken down rates of myocarditis cases…

www1.racgp.org.au

Between the ages of 18-29 the rate per 100,000 doses is 3.1

So roughly 1 for every 30,000 doses

There are less than 800 players in the AFL. Your figures are just a little bit off (unless of course there are 14,200 players in the state leagues ?)

It is yes. The rate for myocarditis from Pfizer is 1 in 5000 in young males per the paperwork they lodged with the FDA for emergency use. It is about 1 in 30k for females. I'll take Pfizers data over whatever the TGA wants to say on the matter.

I said ALF plus state leagues. Which I assume gets us to at least 2500 professional males footballers in Australia. Based off 2 doses each, that puts it at about 1 either AFL or AFL affiliated player being hospitalised with myocarditis. This before boosters, and all players will be due for boosters sometime between April to June, except maybe Port Adelaide who may have gone with astrazenecca. It is known that athletes are more likely to die of myocarditis related complications due to the extreme stress they can put on the heart while unknowingly suffering or recovering from myocarditis. It is also assumed that many mild cases of myocarditis are not picked up on due to people not noticing symptoms or presenting to hospital, this is not so much a problem for the average Joe who doesn't max out their heart rate to the degree of a athlete but for athletes specifically they are much more likely to put themselves at risk unintentionally. Wiht the risk of developing myocarditis increasing the younger a person is that there is probably an association between rate of occurrence and absence of co-morbidities predictive of severe covid disease. Athletes being extremely fit and lacking any of the co-morbidities that are common even among people their age in gen pop, might put them into a higher risk category for developing myocarditis. Maybe thats 1 in 2500 rather that 1 in 5000, who knows. All in all though, they are at minimum about 1 in 5000 risk per shot and thats more than enough with 2-3 and maybe eventually 4 shots to say its likely a player or players develop myocarditis from the mRNA vaccine. Given the stress they put on their hearts that is a recipe for disaster.

Its become a common occurrence in Europe for players to go down with these issued. I posted 2 examples, there are lists floating around [and I've posted a partial list before] that have upwards of 75-100 names on them of pro athletes going down in the past 12 months.

And no, Miguel and others, I am not avoiding the claim that these players are 70 times more likely to get myocarditis from Covid itself because its just not true. Old people and people who get very sick from covid may have a hight risk of developing myocarditis from the disease than from the vaccine. That does not correlate to the risk posed to players and healthy young adults. I have shared tables of this before, again Pfizers date, published by the FDA, that shows all cause hospitalisation from covid is about 1:1 with vaccine injury causing myocarditis. So it is the case that the best available data that exists on this does in fact say that players take more risk taking the vaccine then they do from catching covid.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

So we’re clear and can have a fair argument going forward - Pfizer data good now?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

So we’re clear and can have a fair argument going forward - Pfizer data good now?

Look I think you have to take data on its merits, not prejudge it based on where it’s come from.

Data that supports me = good.

Data that doesn’t = bad.

 

[Smotie2]

Sorry in advance for the multiquote



Good, it's being done to prevent the spread of covid in the workplace.
I, and I imagine the majority of people, would be f**king pissed if someone I sat next to at work who refused to get vaccinated gave me covid.





It's nothing to do with the rhetoric in society, it's because people don't want to f**king get a mostly preventable disease which often has long-term consequences off someone who could quite easily have been vaccinated.



Agreed, in the same position with my Dad's wife



Not true, children have been in the same boat for quite some time, not allowed to attend school unless vaccinations are up to date.
Same freedom as you have now.

Cheers.
Very surprised with your stance and attitude.
Quite a disgrace really and very unaustralian.

I still don't get the attitude towards the unvaxxed. If you're vaccinated then yourse safe. Otherwise the vaccine is s**t.
It's really that simple and doesn't come down to degrees and percentages...

And the last part is bullshit. My son is a school teacher and he said that's rubbish.

 

[Goroyals22]

Sorry in advance for the multiquote



Good, it's being done to prevent the spread of covid in the workplace.
I, and I imagine the majority of people, would be f**king pissed if someone I sat next to at work who refused to get vaccinated gave me covid.





It's nothing to do with the rhetoric in society, it's because people don't want to f**king get a mostly preventable disease which often has long-term consequences off someone who could quite easily have been vaccinated.



Agreed, in the same position with my Dad's wife



Not true, children have been in the same boat for quite some time, not allowed to attend school unless vaccinations are up to date.
Same freedom as you have now.

Why? If your vaccinated whats the issue? Its none of your business if they have been vaccinated or not.. at some stage you are going to get it.. … and at some stage those not vaccinated will be allowed out and back to normality…
In Nsw that will be next month..
The flu is a mostly preventable disease.. do you get upset when you get that or do you ask ur workmates to show if they are vaccinated for that to?

 

[Smotie2]

Why? If your vaccinated whats the issue? Its none of your business if they have been vaccinated or not.. at some stage you are going to get it.. … and at some stage those not vaccinated will be allowed out and back to normality…
In Nsw that will be next month..
The flu is a mostly preventable disease.. do you get upset when you get that or do you ask ur workmates to show if they are vaccinated for that to?

Perfect

So it is bad for the unvaccinated to mingle with society now but next month it's all good thanks perfectly safe.

If it's unsafe now it's unsafe then as well.

Such bullshit this is supposedly around health advice. This is just about control.

 

[Godfather32]

Cheers.
Very surprised with your stance and attitude.
Quite a disgrace really and very unaustralian.

I still don't get the attitude towards the unvaxxed. If you're vaccinated then yourse safe. Otherwise the vaccine is sh*t.
It's really that simple and doesn't come down to degrees and percentages...

And the last part is bullshit. My son is a school teacher and he said that's rubbish.

I think you'll find my attitude is quite similar to a majority of Australians. Take this recent survery from Victoria for example

Over three-quarters of Victorians (76%) agree that an employed worker in Victoria is not allowed to enter their employer’s workplace unless fully vaccinated - Roy Morgan Research

A large majority of 76% of Victorians agree that an employed worker in Victoria is not allowed to enter their employer’s workplace unless fully vaccinated compared to only 24% that disagree, according to a special Victorian Roy Morgan SMS Poll conducted yesterday (November 24, 2021).

roymorgan.com.au

I don't see how it's un-Australian to want to protect people who can't get the vaccine, the more vulnerable in society and yes myself and my family.
I don't think this is disgusting or disgraceful at all.

You don't seem to understand how vaccinations work, the reason Polio, Small Pox etc was eliminated was because nearly everyone who could be vaccinated was so there was nowhere for the disease to go.
There are also breakthrough cases because yes the vaccine isn't perfect (but you know this because it's been well documented and mentioned on here many times). But if you're vaccinated you're still far, far less likely to catch the virus and therefore far less likely to pass it on to other people.

As for the last part, it's not bullshit -

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/-/media/Files/Corporate/general-documents/Immunisation/PDF/No-Jab-No-Play/Immunisation-requirements-for-child-care-services-kindergarten-and-schools.pdf

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I still don't get the attitude towards the unvaxxed. If you're vaccinated then yourse safe. Otherwise the vaccine is sh*t.
It's really that simple and doesn't come down to degrees and percentages...

It really isn’t that simple.

The vaccine isn’t 100 per cent effective, largely because it’s been rushed out, largely because it had to be. So anyone that’s taken it isn’t 100 per cent protected, but they’re less likely to catch it and less likely to pass it on.

People who haven’t taken the vaccine, however, are a greater risk of catching it, are a greater risk of catching it bad and winding up taking up a hospital bed, and at greater risk of passing it onto other people.

So for people who want to make a conscious decision to put themselves in that category, they should expect to be subject to some additional restrictions to protect themselves, the people around them, and the people that might need that hospital bed for other reasons.

That’s the simple bit.

 

[Godfather32]

Why? If your vaccinated whats the issue? Its none of your business if they have been vaccinated or not.. at some stage you are going to get it.. … and at some stage those not vaccinated will be allowed out and back to normality…
In Nsw that will be next month..
The flu is a mostly preventable disease.. do you get upset when you get that or do you ask ur workmates to show if they are vaccinated for that to?

You're not stupid, you know that the flu and covid 19 are completely different things.
Also I do get pissed when workmates come in to work with the flu and make everyone else sick, a lot of people do.

 

[Smotie2]

It really isn’t that simple.

The vaccine isn’t 100 per cent effective, largely because it’s been rushed out, largely because it had to be. So anyone that’s taken it isn’t 100 per cent protected, but they’re less likely to catch it and less likely to pass it on.

People who haven’t taken the vaccine, however, are a greater risk of catching it, are a greater risk of catching it bad and winding up taking up a hospital bed, and at greater risk of passing it onto other people.

So for people who want to make a conscious decision to put themselves in that category, they should expect to be subject to some additional restrictions to protect themselves, the people around them, and the people that might need that hospital bed for other reasons.

That’s the simple bit.

Lol it really is simple.

If the vaccine works you're safe.

Working on percentages of safe is just bullshit and admitting the vaccine doesn't work.

 

[Smotie2]

You're not stupid, you know that the flu and covid 19 are completely different things.
Also I do get pissed when workmates come in to work with the flu and make everyone else sick, a lot of people do.

Tell them they will lose their job if they dont get a flu shot and come to work sick.

 

[Moose1414]

So we’re clear and can have a fair argument going forward - Pfizer data good now?

Data is data. While most of what Pfizer shared with the FDA is for totally unsuspicious reasons not to be released for 55 years at their request, I see nothing wrong with citing their own estimates on background rate of myocarditis in their product given that this does happen to be public domain now.

I'd be great if you ever used data, or had any interest in this topic beyond trying to establish you are king of the kindergarten sandpit of big footy, but yeah If for some unforeseen reason you ever wanted to have an argument I have no issue with you educating yourself and citing Pfizers data.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Lol it really is simple.

If the vaccine works you're safe.

Working on percentages of safe is just bullshit and admitting the vaccine doesn't work.

Nope. If you truly believe that then you’re simple.

 

[Godfather32]

Lol it really is simple.

If the vaccine works you're safe.

Working on percentages of safe is just bullshit and admitting the vaccine doesn't work.

I mean wearing a seatbelt doesn't mean you're never going to die in a car crash but it does make you a hell of a lot safer if you do get in one

 

[Godfather32]

Tell them they will lose their job if they dont get a flu shot and come to work sick.

You're not stupid, you know that the flu and covid 19 are completely different things.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I mean wearing a seatbelt doesn't mean you're never going to die in a car crash but it does make you a hell of a lot safer if you do get in one

If a seatbelt doesn’t protect me 100 per cent of the time it’s s**t and there’s no point wearing it, I don’t have the patience to mess about with lower percentages.

 

[Moose1414]

I am totally not trying to make fun of the dying here, so cool your jets Badge just assume we all already know you are highly virtuous and a friend of all who are less fortunate than thou, but I would like to draw everyones attention to this headline:

Assisted death only for vaccinated, euthanasia association says

Anyone wishing to be euthanized now has to first present proof of vaccination or recovery from Covid, as per the new guidelines issued by Germany's euthanasia association.

www.rt.com

No point reading the article, it actually makes sense why this is a policy and all but... well, 2021 headlines eh? How good.

 

[Smotie2]

If a seatbelt doesn’t protect me 100 per cent of the time it’s sh*t and there’s no point wearing it, I don’t have the patience to mess about with lower percentages.

And yet the health advice is from next month all the unvaxxed can go around free as normal.

So it's not safe now 100 percent but it is safe from middle of next month...

And you can't stand up if your unvaxxed now in pubs but from next month you can.

Sweet makes sense

 

[HoneyBadger35]

We’ve moved swiftly on from collapsing footballers because it didn’t survive a surface level of digging, but just one last tweet that organically popped up on my feed.

 

[Smotie2]

I mean wearing a seatbelt doesn't mean you're never going to die in a car crash but it does make you a hell of a lot safer if you do get in one

I mean I'd like to know when you ever inject a seat belt in your body.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

And yet the health advice is from next month all the unvaxxed can go around free as normal.

So it's not safe now 100 percent but it is safe from middle of next month...

And you can't stand up if your unvaxxed now in pubs but from next month you can.

Sweet makes sense

Are you talking about WA?

We have zero community cases of Covid and have done for months. When we open up, that’ll change, so the risk profile will change and the restrictions will change.

Amazing how simple concepts appear too difficult sometimes.

 

[Smotie2]

You're not stupid, you know that the flu and covid 19 are completely different things.

Last year no.
The data suggests this year yes.

Even the government rhetoric lately is they want to get to treating it like the flu.

That's what the national plan is all about.

Move on

 

[Smotie2]

Are you talking about WA?

We have zero community cases of Covid and have done for months. When we open up, that’ll change, so the risk profile will change and the restrictions will change.

Amazing how simple concepts appear too difficult sometimes.

New South Wales actually.

Come on Miguel, you know better than to play the man even in a subtle way.

But hey it's all good for those who don't agree with the mandates right?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Even the government rhetoric lately is they want to get to treating it like the flu.

Once 80 to 90 per cent of people are vaccinated, yes.

But the vaccines aren’t 100 per cent effective so they’re s**t.