All Australian Team 2016

[Play by Numbers]

Numbers don't work when it comes to KD's. Talia is probably the stingiest of the lot, but doesn't rebound as much so his numbers are less. McGovern has awesome 1-on-1 numbers, but when released a few weeks back, a lot of his wins were v average/smaller opponents. And so on.

Numbers simply aren't enough.

"Released"?

I dispute that. He covers other players, but has an opponent, usually the main forward.

WC don't play a spare man.

Of the main KPD it goes Tarrant, McDonald then McGovern for rebound 50's. So, whilst Rance supposedly offers a lot of rebound, what are the metres gained numbers like.

 

[Play by Numbers]

No no no, you all have it wrong. Rance is the greatest defender in the history of the game. Better than Scarlett or Silvagni, a huge Brownlow chance.

FWIW Talia is averaging 16 touches a game and has 62 rebound 50s for the season. Rance 18 and has 59.

For all the accusations Cyril or NN get, for being overrated based on being exciting, I wonder if Rance is the same.

He isn't the best lockdown defender.

Nor the best intercept.

Is he the best rebounding KPD, the numbers don't suggest it?

Other KPD are better marks, kicks and spoils, but he is quick and looks good when he plays.

He has been consistently good for a while, but is that the most critical quality?

 

[Scotland]

Rance is a very good player, but the media have got carried away.

Even during the Swans game Jonathan Brown and Jason Dunstall were trying to talk him up.

 

[WCEbrody]

Similar to De Gea @ man united, Rance gets more opportunity to make '' highlight plays '' due to the s**t that surrounds him.

He's in the conversation for best in his position but is heavily overrated.

 

[Halftimehero]

Zach Merrett again

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Tarrant keeps buddy goalless Rance having a nightmare.. But Rance lock for AA?

Kinda helps when he is off the ground for half the game and only runs out his injury halfway into last quarter (ps Tarrant wasnt even near Buddy for most of the game, look at their heatmaps)

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Zach Merrett again

Outperformed Bont last week and Cripps this week.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Rance is a very good player, but the media have got carried away.

Even during the Swans game Jonathan Brown and Jason Dunstall were trying to talk him up.

Yeah, he is a media fav, which does count.

Metres gained and scoring chain numbers are also stats I would like. Certain things will skew it, such as game style and ladder position, but metres gained is surely the one stat he will lead in. Him or McDonald.

Scoring involvements would be Gov, Talia and McDonald.

 

[juss]

Similar to De Gea @ man united, Rance gets more opportunity to make '' highlight plays '' due to the s**t that surrounds him.

He's in the conversation for best in his position but is heavily overrated.

Lol "in the conversation"
He's the best defender in the league.

These stats arguments are hilarious from Eagles fans considering they always tell us to ignore the stats and watch the game when talking of NicNat.

 

[NinjaSwan]

Rance is a very good player, but the media have got carried away.

Even during the Swans game Jonathan Brown and Jason Dunstall were trying to talk him up.

Wow really? I was at the game so didn't hear the commentary but I thought he was awful.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Lol "in the conversation"
He's the best defender in the league.

These stats arguments are hilarious from Eagles fans considering they always tell us to ignore the stats and watch the game when talking of NicNat.

No, NN does well in a lot of stats, say clearances, hit outs to advanatage, starting scoring chains etc.

CD and the AFL have regularly had him the top ranked ruck in his best years.

BTW, Tarrant then McGovern lead metres gained for that position.

 

[Scotland]

Lol "in the conversation"
He's the best defender in the league.

These stats arguments are hilarious from Eagles fans considering they always tell us to ignore the stats and watch the game when talking of NicNat.

Stats tell a story and can be used to help frame an argument. People talk down Naitanui because he doesn't get a lot of uncontested marks around the ground like most ruckmen, even though he leads most in clearances, tackles etc. Whatever stats Naitanui picks up, the difference in how we play when he's in the ruck compared to when he's not there is pretty obvious.

On what metric is Rance miles ahead of the other key defenders in the mix for AA selection? I mean he had 22 touches and 9 marks today, but his opponent had 11 marks and kicked 7.4. And his team lost by 100+. No doubt people will list him in Richmond's bests. If McGovern or Tarrant or Talia's opponent kicked 7 they'd be roasted.

The 'Rance GOAT' arguments don't stack up at all.

 

[NinjaSwan]

Rance also gave away 2 50 metre penalties that led directly to goals for McGlynn and Heeney.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Stats tell a story and can be used to help frame an argument. People talk down Naitanui because he doesn't get a lot of uncontested marks around the ground like most ruckmen, even though he leads most in clearances, tackles etc. Whatever stats Naitanui picks up, the difference in how we play when he's in the ruck compared to when he's not there is pretty obvious.

On what metric is Rance miles ahead of the other key defenders in the mix for AA selection? I mean he had 22 touches and 9 marks today, but his opponent had 11 marks and kicked 7.4. And his team lost by 100+. No doubt people will list him in Richmond's bests. If McGovern or Tarrant or Talia's opponent kicked 7 they'd be roasted.

The 'Rance GOAT' arguments don't stack up at all.

Agreed.

I think he is a good all round defender, but benefits from image. He is arguably the best performed KPD across the last 4 years but most of his competition is young. He also does not excel in one particular area and there have been better in 2016.

For example Tarrant is good 1v1, but surprisingly gives north a lot of drive. He leads metres gained (for the position) and does well in score inv and r50's.

McGovern is top 3 in each of the attacking/rebound stats, along with being the best defensively. He leads in 1v1 contests and is the best intercept player (combination of int. marks and poss). IMO has had the best year of all four.

Talia is great across defensive stats and regularly beats his man. I would be interested in his goals conceded.

Rance does worse than expected offensively. I also think he would have conceded more goals, than the others due to Richmond as a squad. However, he is a good intercept player and spoils the most (though others do mark). He also wins a bit of ball.

At least these are what the numbers say.

Gov's marking and kicking, Tarrant's drive or Rance pace and possesions?

 

[Quinz]

Rance is supremely overhyped by the media. He's not streets ahead of the rest, and already has an AA he shouldnt have.

But just looking at this year, I think he's still been the best key defender all around. It is possible to be a media darling and still be the best. Which I think he is.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Rance is supremely overhyped by the media. He's not streets ahead of the rest, and already has an AA he shouldnt have.

But just looking at this year, I think he's still been the best key defender all around. It is possible to be a media darling and still be the best. Which I think he is.

I'm not so sure.

I think he is probably the third best. Mcgovern, then Tarrant and Rance.

Rance has had some bad games.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Rance is supremely overhyped by the media. He's not streets ahead of the rest, and already has an AA he shouldnt have.

But just looking at this year, I think he's still been the best key defender all around. It is possible to be a media darling and still be the best. Which I think he is.

As for general defenders, Shaw and Rampe have been excellent.

 

[AG]

I feel as Andrew Gaff has really been under rated this year. He barely gets a mention in this thread even though he has averaged 29.6 dispoals at 72% efficiency, 479 meters gained per game and has only missed 1 game all year!

The best pure wingman in the game imo and was named on the wing in last years All-Australian team in a similar year except from the fact the team was a lot better last year.

Gaff is the perfect example of simply looking at stats rather than performances. His impact on games is not at the level of last year. Gaff won't be in the squad imo.

Shuey is a chance though and had a strong finish to the year which stays in the memory of the goldfish selectors.

Rampe, Franklin, Parker, Kennedy and Hannebery all strong chances for the team. Grundy might make the squad.

 

[chaelsonnen]

Tarrant giving Cameron a bath atm. If it was Rance, the 7 team would be having a circle-jerk over how he is the best defender since the creation of man.

 

[Scotland]

Gaff is the perfect example of simply looking at stats rather than performances. His impact on games is not at the level of last year. Gaff won't be in the squad imo.

Shuey is a chance though and had a strong finish to the year which stays in the memory of the goldfish selectors.

Rampe, Franklin, Parker, Kennedy and Hannebery all strong chances for the team. Grundy might make the squad.

Agree with this. Gaff set himself a high benchmark this year and hasn't quite met the same level this year. He's still had a good year, but you don't have a mortgage on an AA spot just for getting 29 touches a game. His clearance and tackle numbers are also down on last year.

 

[Scotland]

Tarrant giving Cameron a bath atm. Cameron has had 2 touches.

Yeah but he's only had 12 possessions. Rance would have had 50 by now and they would all be damaging.

 

[Scotland]

Agreed.

I think he is a good all round defender, but benefits from image. He is arguably the best performed KPD across the last 4 years but most of his competition is young. He also does not excel in one particular area and there have been better in 2016.

For example Tarrant is good 1v1, but surprisingly gives north a lot of drive. He leads metres gained (for the position) and does well in score inv and r50's.

McGovern is top 3 in each of the attacking/rebound stats, along with being the best defensively. He leads in 1v1 contests and is the best intercept player (combination of int. marks and poss). IMO has had the best year of all four.

Talia is great across defensive stats and regularly beats his man. I would be interested in his goals conceded.

Rance does worse than expected offensively. I also think he would have conceded more goals, than the others due to Richmond as a squad. However, he is a good intercept player and spoils the most (though others do mark). He also wins a bit of ball.

At least these are what the numbers say.

Gov's marking and kicking, Tarrant's drive or Rance pace and possesions?

This is a pretty fair assessment. The way Rance is fawned over I'd expect him to be a 20-25 possession a game player that ls comfortably leading the comp in intercept marks and rebound 50s - which isn't the case.

I watched a bit of Geelong vs Melbourne today with Tom McDonald under siege. The commentators barely noticed him and he finished the game with 21 touches and 5 marks. I tuned in later on to the last quarter of Sydney vs Richmond and with Franklin on 7.4 the commentators were still pumping up Rance's tyres.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Gaff is the perfect example of simply looking at stats rather than performances. His impact on games is not at the level of last year. Gaff won't be in the squad imo.

Shuey is a chance though and had a strong finish to the year which stays in the memory of the goldfish selectors.

Rampe, Franklin, Parker, Kennedy and Hannebery all strong chances for the team. Grundy might make the squad.

Franklin a lock, Rampe if they have sense. IMO best all round defender in 2016, this includes Mcgovern who may miss because the selectors are thick.

 

[AG]

Franklin a lock, Rampe if they have sense. IMO best all round defender in 2016, this includes Mcgovern who may miss because the selectors are thick.

No reason Rampe and McGovern can't be in the two pockets.

 

[Play by Numbers]

No reason Rampe and McGovern can't be in the two pockets.

Defs.

It just worries me when I hear stuff like "McGovern playing that third man up role" from media people.

I'm like, errrrr you know WC usually allow the opposition to have extras in their forwardline. They relly on McGovern to play on the oppositions FF, then move to intercept a rushed entry. Regularly will be the only player up against two forwards. Hence his great 1v1 numbers both won and neutral.

It makes me think, not only do they not see him play, but they also don't look at stats or ask those who do.