All Divisions General NFNL Discussion Thread

[Max Leader]

Banyule, St Mary’s and Heidelbergs juniors all play in that league…

But they are technically separate from the Senior Club. Technically!!

 

[bertybeetle]

Ma

Banyule, St Mary’s and Heidelbergs juniors all play in that league…

Macleod as well. Yarra JFL are a very strong junior competition it’s no coincidence the yjfl aligned clubs are seniors division 1 and top end of division 2 products

 

[NFNL Member]

But they are technically separate from the Senior Club. Technically!!

I’m confused

 

[red_ranga]

So Preston and coburg should just shut up shop because they’re on the bottom of the ladder? So we should say goodbye to whittlesea, west preston, lower plenty, epping, reservoir, lalor, west Adelaide and Norwood in the sanfl, Perth and west coast in the wafl where do you stop, There’s always someone on the bottom of the ladder princess!

 

[10571z]

But they are technically separate from the Senior Club. Technically!!

Well most are seperate clubs. Rarely do Junior and Seniors operate under the same banner

 

[NFNL Member]

Well most are seperate clubs. Rarely do Junior and Seniors operate under the same banner

Why is that??

 

[10571z]

Why is that??

Because the senior clubs would take the money… also easier to run size wise

 

[Max Leader]

Well most are seperate clubs. Rarely do Junior and Seniors operate under the same banner

YJFL doesn’t allow it.

 

[Champ or Chump]

Banyule, St Mary’s and Heidelbergs juniors all play in that league…

I can help a bit more here as it was something discussed on Saturday at the luncheon (player pathway via junior club).

IAFC started the IJFC in the 60's, but the juniors are now independently run and administered ie: we do not have any formal control. We do however have a long relationship and are co-tenants with many players over the years playing with our club, via this junior program. Currently around 45% of our 4 teams players have come through the IJFC. That said, many of these juniors do have an affiliation with the private schools they attend and in recent times times NFNL clubs have targeted this junior program. So, many more play in the NFNL or other VAFA teams.

So, I would suggest it is as Maxy suggested a bit 'yes' and 'no' in terms of that original question.

Chump

 

[10571z]

I can help a bit more here as it was something discussed on Saturday at the luncheon (player pathway via junior club).

IAFC started the IJFC in the 60's, but the juniors are now independently run and administered ie: we do not have any formal control. We do however have a long relationship and are co-tenants with many players over the years playing with our club, via this junior program. Currently around 45% of our 4 teams players have come through the IJFC. That said, many of these juniors do have an affiliation with the private schools they attend and in recent times times NFNL clubs have targeted this junior program. So, many more play in the NFNL or other VAFA teams.

So, I would suggest it is as Maxy suggested a bit 'yes' and 'no' in terms of that original question.

Chump

45% still a good number and you’d suspect would only improve once joining the NFNL.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

So Preston and coburg should just shut up shop because they’re on the bottom of the ladder? So we should say goodbye to whittlesea, west preston, lower plenty, epping, reservoir, lalor, west Adelaide and Norwood in the sanfl, Perth and west coast in the wafl where do you stop, There’s always someone on the bottom of the ladder princess!

Article published last week surrounding how its not sustainable for them to be in the VFL from a financial standpoint. Its not just on field, but they are clearly out of their depth there too.

As was discussed in the pre-season, 19 to 23 year olds are losing interest in playing VFL, which needs to be their target market for players.

If my son was offered $300 a game to play locally, instead of being offered $100 a game to play VFL, but train three times a week and potentially travel and miss work/uni for games where they are getting pumped, i know where my advice would sit.

 

[red_ranga]

Article published last week surrounding how its not sustainable for them to be in the VFL from a financial standpoint. Its not just on field, but they are clearly out of their depth there too.

As was discussed in the pre-season, 19 to 23 year olds are losing interest in playing VFL, which needs to be their target market for players.

If my son was offered $300 a game to play locally, instead of being offered $100 a game to play VFL, but train three times a week and potentially travel and miss work/uni for games where they are getting pumped, i know where my advice would sit.

I hear you money wise, but if you want to play in the big league this is the best pathway and there is no shortage of players willing to forgo the hard earned for there crack at AFL

 

[EBERT THE KING]

I hear you money wise, but if you want to play in the big league this is the best pathway and there is no shortage of players willing to forgo the hard earned for there crack at AFL

In last years main draft, one player was drafted from the VFL, and he had already been on an AFL list. The same amount was drafted from local football (Ovens and Murray)

The pathway is almost gone.

 

[kickthething]

Article published last week surrounding how its not sustainable for them to be in the VFL from a financial standpoint. Its not just on field, but they are clearly out of their depth there too.

As was discussed in the pre-season, 19 to 23 year olds are losing interest in playing VFL, which needs to be their target market for players.

If my son was offered $300 a game to play locally, instead of being offered $100 a game to play VFL, but train three times a week and potentially travel and miss work/uni for games where they are getting pumped, i know where my advice would sit.

A lot of players still want to play at the highest level they can. VFL minimum is $250 a game from what I know, the players who want to play at a higher level at least there is an option outside of the aligned clubs. The financial situation with the standalones who are not able to generate pokie revenue was a big feature of that article and ultimately that will decide whether they remain or not. You cant have these clubs trying to compete with richer standalones who generate the pokies revenue and AFL aligned programs. Coburg seems to have an alignment with the VAFA in terms of roster which may be a financial rather than a talent decision as match payments are not a point of comparison between the VFL and VAFA, so they do not need to compete with their nominated club re match payments as per your point above.

Coaching is a big issue and it would not be a bad idea for the AFL/VFL to use these standalone clubs as part of a coaching development program that could provide access to all the resources they may need whilst developing AFL/VFL aligned coaches, paid for by the league not the standalone clubs. Coaches are parttime and volunteer in a number of cases so they are already heavily compromised when compared to others who are fulltime employed by the wealthier clubs.

The Bullants, even though they have won a couple of games seem to have fallen further down than than Coburg. Something has happened at Preston from an onfield perspective, I assume injuries testing their depth?, they have been regularly pumped over the last month and cant seem to score. Coburg are still winless, although they do compete for 3 quarters most weeks but fall away.

Overall the Tassie team coming in will put more pressures on both Coburg and Preston. Either the VFL adapts or the AFL reserves re emerge, which is not on the agenda from what I am told. It will always come back to finances and with the withdrawal of the grants they used to get prior to covid, unless they are reinstated I would not be surprised to see at least one of these clubs disappear.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

A lot of players still want to play at the highest level they can. VFL minimum is $250 a game from what I know, the players who want to play at a higher level at least there is an option outside of the aligned clubs. The financial situation with the standalones who are not able to generate pokie revenue was a big feature of that article and ultimately that will decide whether they remain or not. You cant have these clubs trying to compete with richer standalones who generate the pokies revenue and AFL aligned programs. Coburg seems to have an alignment with the VAFA in terms of roster which may be a financial rather than a talent decision as match payments are not a point of comparison between the VFL and VAFA, so they do not need to compete with their nominated club re match payments as per your point above.

Coaching is a big issue and it would not be a bad idea for the AFL/VFL to use these standalone clubs as part of a coaching development program that could provide access to all the resources they may need whilst developing AFL/VFL aligned coaches, paid for by the league not the standalone clubs. Coaches are parttime and volunteer in a number of cases so they are already heavily compromised when compared to others who are fulltime employed by the wealthier clubs.

The Bullants, even though they have won a couple of games seem to have fallen further down than than Coburg. Something has happened at Preston from an onfield perspective, I assume injuries testing their depth?, they have been regularly pumped over the last month and cant seem to score. Coburg are still winless, although they do compete for 3 quarters most weeks but fall away.

Overall the Tassie team coming in will put more pressures on both Coburg and Preston. Either the VFL adapts or the AFL reserves re emerge, which is not on the agenda from what I am told. It will always come back to finances and with the withdrawal of the grants they used to get prior to covid, unless they are reinstated I would not be surprised to see at least one of these clubs disappear.

I think you will find the AFL reserves competition will remerge very soon, with 14 of the clubs taking part. Western Australian and South Australian Clubs have no interest.

From that point, the reestablishment of the VFA, with clear connections with Nab league clubs needs to be the way to go.

Calder - Coburg
Preston - Knights
Geelong falcons - Werribee

Etc etc

Its not a perfect model, but its the best we can hope for.

There will obviously be supplementary lists for the AFL reserve teams, and if those players arent picked at that level, they can play VFA too.

At least with the VFA, there is years and years of history behind it, and the clubs actually have a chance at success.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Supporters of WAFL clubs would love to see the Eagles reserves and Peel (Fremantle 2s) leave and enter an AFL reserves competition, leaving the traditional eight-club competition.

The worry is funding for such a competition. Currently, the two AFL clubs pay the other eight clubs a set figure each year to be part of the competition and for the majority of the clubs, the payments are the difference between a small profit and a five or six figure loss.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

Supporters of WAFL clubs would love to see the Eagles reserves and Peel (Fremantle 2s) leave and enter an AFL reserves competition, leaving the traditional eight-club competition.

The worry is funding for such a competition. Currently, the two AFL clubs pay the other eight clubs a set figure each year to be part of the competition and for the majority of the clubs, the payments are the difference between a small profit and a five or six figure loss.

Yep, this is spot on.

The WAFL goes under without the Eagles (and a lesser extent the Dockers).

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Despite being the richest club in the land, the Eagles have been trying to reduce its annual royalty to the WA Football Commission each year over the past few years, which will harm grassroots football in time if they get away with it.

 

[10571z]

Real worries state wide with reserves footy. Just off the top of my head

Bundoora, East Keilor, Doutta Stars, Old Hailbury, Old Caulfield

Have all forfeited at stages at the top level.

 

[Denny Crane]

Todays Herald Sun

A historic amateur club is considering a move to a new league for 2024​

A historic amateur club will hold an extraordinary general meeting to vote on a potential move to a new league in 2024. Find out why here.

A historic amateur club is considering a move to a new league for 2024.
Ivanhoe, which joined the Victorian Amateur Football Association – then known as the Metropolitan league – in 1934, will hold a vote next week to decide its home for next season and beyond.

The Hoers will hold an extraordinary general meeting on Thursday, August 10, to vote on a move to the Northern Football Netball League.

Without school old boy affiliation, player retention and recruitment as well as travel are among the factors behind the potential move.

Ivanhoe president Peter Rawley said all members would have a chance to have their say on the club’s future.

“At the end of last year the committee was looking at forward planning and identified player retention and recruitment remained a challenge for us,” he said.

“We thought we’d explore different options, we created a sub-committee, and it investigated remaining in the VAFA, exploring joining the Northern and even a potential merge with another local club.

“Six or seven weeks ago that sub-committee recommended we explore the opportunity to join the Northern Football Netball League.”

Rawley said the club had done a lot of research on what it would take to move away from amateur football.


“One of the opportunities we don’t have currently in playing in the VAFA is the offer of renumeration.

“That’s going to take on different levels of us being an amateur club transitioning to a professional club, we understand that will be a slow process.

“We’ve talked to several other clubs about how they did that, Eltham Turtles, Banyule, even some people at Kilmore.

“We feel being able to reward players playing at our club, that could be match payments, incentives for best players or even merch and gear that we could supply, and all those are not permitted under VAFA rules.

“The other feedback we’ve got is the nature of local, in terms of the geography of teams.

“Should we go to Northern, there are teams a considerable distance, such as Kilmore and Kinglake, but … hopefully we’d move through the grades in time and the location would be appealing to players.

“Whereas the VAFA is across all metropolitan areas, this year we can find ourselves playing in Glen Eira, Murrumbeena, Oakleigh and down as far as the peninsula.

“We found that was a little bit of a stumbling block for attracting players that have always played in the Northern.

“That’s also about attracting coaches, volunteers, supporters to follow the team, members, staff and all that sort of thing.”

Ivanhoe is the VAFA’s ninth oldest continuous member.

It would be the third amateur club to join the NFNL since 2015 following Banyule and Old Eltham Collegians, while Kilmore (Riddell District) and Kinglake (Outer East) have also joined.

The Hoers have produced a host of VFL/AFL players since its inception in 1910, none bigger than the likes of Albert and Harry Collier.

VFL chief commissioner and Australian Football Hall of Famer Jack Hamilton, Brisbane Lions and Sydney CEO Andrew Ireland and legendary recruiter Neville Stibbard also started out at Ivanhoe Park.

After winning the Division 2 premiership last season, its first since 1969, Ivanhoe has endured a difficult 2023 in Division 1.

The club is facing relegation with just two wins, which would leave it in the VAFA’s fifth tier, while a move to the NFNL would likely see the Hoers enter in Division 3.

Despite the on-field struggles, Rawley says the club has never been better off off-field.

“Our club is in its strongest position in its 113 years,” he said.

“Over the last three years we’ve done a lot of work to get the football club in a strong position, long before any thought of going to the Northern.

“We wanted to make sure the club was in a position to fund elite coaching, have better facilities, equipment and all the rest of it to make us an attractive organisation.

“We have significant support from sponsors to continue supporting us financially whether we’re in the Northern or remain in the VAFA next year.”

 

[10571z]

Todays Herald Sun

A historic amateur club is considering a move to a new league for 2024​

A historic amateur club will hold an extraordinary general meeting to vote on a potential move to a new league in 2024. Find out why here.

A historic amateur club is considering a move to a new league for 2024.
Ivanhoe, which joined the Victorian Amateur Football Association – then known as the Metropolitan league – in 1934, will hold a vote next week to decide its home for next season and beyond.

The Hoers will hold an extraordinary general meeting on Thursday, August 10, to vote on a move to the Northern Football Netball League.

Without school old boy affiliation, player retention and recruitment as well as travel are among the factors behind the potential move.

Ivanhoe president Peter Rawley said all members would have a chance to have their say on the club’s future.

“At the end of last year the committee was looking at forward planning and identified player retention and recruitment remained a challenge for us,” he said.

“We thought we’d explore different options, we created a sub-committee, and it investigated remaining in the VAFA, exploring joining the Northern and even a potential merge with another local club.

“Six or seven weeks ago that sub-committee recommended we explore the opportunity to join the Northern Football Netball League.”

Rawley said the club had done a lot of research on what it would take to move away from amateur football.


“One of the opportunities we don’t have currently in playing in the VAFA is the offer of renumeration.

“That’s going to take on different levels of us being an amateur club transitioning to a professional club, we understand that will be a slow process.

“We’ve talked to several other clubs about how they did that, Eltham Turtles, Banyule, even some people at Kilmore.

“We feel being able to reward players playing at our club, that could be match payments, incentives for best players or even merch and gear that we could supply, and all those are not permitted under VAFA rules.

“The other feedback we’ve got is the nature of local, in terms of the geography of teams.

“Should we go to Northern, there are teams a considerable distance, such as Kilmore and Kinglake, but … hopefully we’d move through the grades in time and the location would be appealing to players.

“Whereas the VAFA is across all metropolitan areas, this year we can find ourselves playing in Glen Eira, Murrumbeena, Oakleigh and down as far as the peninsula.

“We found that was a little bit of a stumbling block for attracting players that have always played in the Northern.

“That’s also about attracting coaches, volunteers, supporters to follow the team, members, staff and all that sort of thing.”

Ivanhoe is the VAFA’s ninth oldest continuous member.

It would be the third amateur club to join the NFNL since 2015 following Banyule and Old Eltham Collegians, while Kilmore (Riddell District) and Kinglake (Outer East) have also joined.

The Hoers have produced a host of VFL/AFL players since its inception in 1910, none bigger than the likes of Albert and Harry Collier.

VFL chief commissioner and Australian Football Hall of Famer Jack Hamilton, Brisbane Lions and Sydney CEO Andrew Ireland and legendary recruiter Neville Stibbard also started out at Ivanhoe Park.

After winning the Division 2 premiership last season, its first since 1969, Ivanhoe has endured a difficult 2023 in Division 1.

The club is facing relegation with just two wins, which would leave it in the VAFA’s fifth tier, while a move to the NFNL would likely see the Hoers enter in Division 3.

Despite the on-field struggles, Rawley says the club has never been better off off-field.

“Our club is in its strongest position in its 113 years,” he said.

“Over the last three years we’ve done a lot of work to get the football club in a strong position, long before any thought of going to the Northern.

“We wanted to make sure the club was in a position to fund elite coaching, have better facilities, equipment and all the rest of it to make us an attractive organisation.

“We have significant support from sponsors to continue supporting us financially whether we’re in the Northern or remain in the VAFA next year.”

The glory days of anyone but elite private schools with extensive Bussiness networks having a shot at success at high levels is lonnnnggg gone.

In the NFNL any hard working and well run club can climb the rungs.

 

[Max Leader]

The glory days of anyone but elite private schools with extensive Bussiness networks having a shot at success at high levels is lonnnnggg gone.

In the NFNL any hard working and well run club can climb the rungs.

Except when you come up against the money of Heidelberg, Bundoora and Montmorency.

Just saying, money is the key, the rest is cream.

 

[10571z]

Except when you come up against the money of Heidelberg, Bundoora and Montmorency.

Just saying, money is the key, the rest is cream.

Macleod won a flag paying reasonable money…

West Preston pay reasonable money.

Yes it’s hard at the absolute top rung but not unheard of.

 

[NFNL Member]

You'd hope there'd be independent officials to avoid some sort of debacle from occurring.

Info filtering through to clubs that the NFNL in their wisdom want to "trial" the time on/off in this weekends first week of Junior finals.
Apparently the details are yet to be confirmed (no need to rush these things i mean the games are only in 4 days) and no it will not be league officials but club volunteers doing it.
All i can say is watch this space!

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Trial? In a final?
Why not do it in matches in the last few rounds of the home and away season?

I can see a sh-tstorm brewing - after all, we have now reached the 'sheep station' stage of the season ...

Just picture it, we are in the latter stages of a final with one point separating the two teams. The two club timekeepers argue over how long to go and one grabs the siren and blows it just as the opposition kicks the ball into its forward line. The ball is marked 25 out from goal, dead in front, after the siren finishes sounding and one timekeeper screams out THERE WAS STILL 20 SECONDS TO GO!