Science/Environment Anti-vacc Crazies at it again. Post appropriate outrage ITT

Remove this Banner Ad

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
6,464
13,522
From Where You'd Rather Be
AFL Club
Carlton
I think we should actively support their right to catch Covid and die

sh*t, I'm even willing to help them in a letter writing campaign
A large portion of skeptics are women and Indigenous Australians, you're literally advocating the death of some of the the most vulnerable in our society.

Cool activist avatar though.


Australia’s longest-running study of people’s experiences of and attitudes towards the coronavirus – run by the Australian National University and being released on Friday – shows 21.7 per cent of the more than 3500 respondents said they probably or definitely would not be vaccinated. This was up from about 12.7 per cent in August last year.

“We also found more than three in 10 Australians, some 31.9 per cent, became less willing to get a vaccine between August 2020 and January 2021,” study co-author Nicholas Biddle said, while nearly 20 per cent of people moved from being “definitely willing” to “probably willing”.

The main groups now less willing to receive a jab include females, Indigenous Australians, those who speak a language other than English at home and those who have not completed year 12.
 

Deliverance

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 19, 2011
11,376
15,783
MCG
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It would be antibody assay and not a commonly available one (cf rubella antibodies done for every pregnant woman). From Medicare website
(MBS online)
Rubella serology $13.35
(If doing as part of serology screen where doing rubella, syphillis and hepatitis you get a small discount to $36)

Glandular fever gets a similar rebate

Current covid test (nasal pcr) $42.50

Can’t find an item for blood testing for covid. I’d guess more than the pcr otherwise we would be doing serology routinely with positive patients
Yeh, not much thought went in to any other options once vaccines were mentioned.
Vaccines for millions who may not need it would be a costly exercise. Especially with the unknowns around AZ vax.
 

Dry Rot

My hat is better than yours
Feb 21, 2002
38,361
11,226
Hawaii
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
To achieve herd immunity it’s going to need to be a very high uptake - over 90%. Depends how well the vaccines prevent transmission, but in all likelihood that will be somewhat below the headline efficacy.
Factor in that some people will probably be unable to have the vaccine due to genuine medical conditions, and pretty much everyone else will need to be vaccinated for us to achieve herd immunity.
If we don’t get that, occasionally there will be outbreaks. In my opinion it won’t mean we need to live with any restrictions, but if a case attends a restaurant, they will have to close for a bit. What’s the easiest way for them to minimise the risk of that happening? Refuse service to unvaccinated people. I would hope there is a mechanism which stops those who genuinely can’t be vaccinated from being refused. But beyond that, businesses have the right to refuse service.
So the protesters were justified.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Dry Rot

My hat is better than yours
Feb 21, 2002
38,361
11,226
Hawaii
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
16,711
11,546
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Yeh, not much thought went in to any other options once vaccines were mentioned.
Vaccines for millions who may not need it would be a costly exercise. Especially with the unknowns around AZ vax.
Other options don’t work, not unless you want to treat every single person prophylactically with HCQ/ zinc on a presumption (not proven) that it will reduce disease severity; if it works at all it has to be early in illness.

I think vaccine costs substantially less than the tests I mentioned in my earlier post
 

PP34

Finals MVP
Oct 8, 2009
28,298
23,793
AFL Club
Carlton
To achieve herd immunity it’s going to need to be a very high uptake - over 90%. Depends how well the vaccines prevent transmission, but in all likelihood that will be somewhat below the headline efficacy.
Factor in that some people will probably be unable to have the vaccine due to genuine medical conditions, and pretty much everyone else will need to be vaccinated for us to achieve herd immunity.
If we don’t get that, occasionally there will be outbreaks. In my opinion it won’t mean we need to live with any restrictions, but if a case attends a restaurant, they will have to close for a bit. What’s the easiest way for them to minimise the risk of that happening? Refuse service to unvaccinated people. I would hope there is a mechanism which stops those who genuinely can’t be vaccinated from being refused. But beyond that, businesses have the right to refuse service.
Either the government works out how to get more of the more effective Pfizer vaccine or herd immunity won’t be happening.

People unable to get the vaccines are probably enough on their own to prevent a big enough uptake of vaccinations.

I’m pro vaccinations but creating situations where people are denied being able to buy food etc because they don’t have a vaccine is not something I agree with at all. Don’t like the precedent it sets and don’t like the idea of your medical history being given to a supermarket or cafe.
 

Northalives

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 12, 2005
6,929
7,122
Australia
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
PORT ADELAIDE
Studies have shown they reduce you passing it on to 30%. No they don’t completely make it non contagious but with symptoms reduced doesn’t it make sense for people to take it?
It makes perfect sense for people to get vaccinated, that's not the issue. The issue is that there must be a campaign run side by side/in conjunction with the campaign to convince people to get vaccinated urging people to carry on doing what they are doing even if they get vaccinated because that is the only way to ensure that we control and eventually eradicate this pathogen.

The vaccines are NOT a magic bullet.

Just to correct you, the increase protection of passing it on is only around 15%, that is, there is still an 85% risk of passing it on.
 

Northalives

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 12, 2005
6,929
7,122
Australia
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
PORT ADELAIDE
The ID specialist (dr Alan Cheng) stated that there is emerging data that transmission is reduced- he did say with the Pfizer one more than the Astra Zeneca; and that both reduce significantly chance of severe disease
The vaccines are good for alleviating the symptoms of the disease when you contract it. There is only a minor increase in stopping the virus from being transmitted but every little bit helps; there is not much evidence, if any, that the vaccines prevent you from being infected. Again, the issue is not that the vaccines are a bad thing, the issue is that people will be convinced into thinking that the vaccines prevent them from being infected and passing it on. What should be happenning is that the vaccines should be "marketed" as being just another tool in fighting the coronavirus and not it being the magic bullet.
 

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
20,613
21,590
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
The vaccines are good for alleviating the symptoms of the disease when you contract it. There is only a minor increase in stopping the virus from being transmitted but every little bit helps; there is not much evidence, if any, that the vaccines prevent you from being infected. Again, the issue is not that the vaccines are a bad thing, the issue is that people will be convinced into thinking that the vaccines prevent them from being infected and passing it on. What should be happenning is that the vaccines should be "marketed" as being just another tool in fighting the coronavirus and not it being the magic bullet.
Is alleviating the symptoms a good thing? So many people will spread it as they don't have many if any symptoms?

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
 

harrythetiger

Jack Graham That Is 🏆🏆🏆
Sep 13, 2015
15,536
42,214
Hillary Step
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
76ers
Either the government works out how to get more of the more effective Pfizer vaccine or herd immunity won’t be happening.

People unable to get the vaccines are probably enough on their own to prevent a big enough uptake of vaccinations.

I’m pro vaccinations but creating situations where people are denied being able to buy food etc because they don’t have a vaccine is not something I agree with at all. Don’t like the precedent it sets and don’t like the idea of your medical history being given to a supermarket or cafe.
Sure, instead of granting all businesses the right to refuse service, the government could only allow businesses deemed non-essential to do so.
I don't think supermarkets would be as likely to consider it as a restaurant (think risk of cluster vs cost to enforce in both situations), but it's a good failsafe to have.
 

Sanders

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 1, 2012
28,700
39,621
AFL Club
Adelaide
The vaccines are good for alleviating the symptoms of the disease when you contract it. There is only a minor increase in stopping the virus from being transmitted but every little bit helps; there is not much evidence, if any, that the vaccines prevent you from being infected. Again, the issue is not that the vaccines are a bad thing, the issue is that people will be convinced into thinking that the vaccines prevent them from being infected and passing it on. What should be happenning is that the vaccines should be "marketed" as being just another tool in fighting the coronavirus and not it being the magic bullet.
 

PP34

Finals MVP
Oct 8, 2009
28,298
23,793
AFL Club
Carlton
Sure, instead of granting all businesses the right to refuse service, the government could only allow businesses deemed non-essential to do so.
I don't think supermarkets would be as likely to consider it as a restaurant (think risk of cluster vs cost to enforce in both situations), but it's a good failsafe to have.
At the end of the day we’re talking about a country with minimal to no Covid.

It’s not like one person walking into somewhere unvaccinated is going to turn the country into the UK.

Imagine being barred service somewhere because there’s a shortage of vaccines at a certain point or because you haven’t gotten around to getting one. All this despite the country not being plagued by the virus.

Borders etc make sense and obviously vaccines have been a part of going to some countries for years so that’s not much of a problem.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Northalives

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 12, 2005
6,929
7,122
Australia
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
PORT ADELAIDE
Is alleviating the symptoms a good thing? So many people will spread it as they don't have many if any symptoms?

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
Alleviating the symptoms is a great thing for those that have contracted the virus but by NOT making people absolutely aware that they may be asymptomatic to the disease and need to be tested, makes them, for all intents and purposes, lethal weapons.

In my view, instead of just issuing people with a card saying that they've been vaccinated, they should also be "encouraged" to be tested after 7 days, 14, 21, 28 and then, every fortnight after for 5 months or their card will be revoked. It sounds very draconian but given how Morrison is behaving, that is, that the vaccine is the "cure", then we need to do something that radical in my opinion to stop us having Covid sweep through our nation.

The only saving grace is that the Premiers will take control once again if and when there is an outbreak regardless of what Morrison, Hunt, Frydenburg etc say, after all, the Premiers have ignored those fools all the way through this crisis and that is why we are doing relatively well and aren't in the same boat as the UK.
 

Northalives

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 12, 2005
6,929
7,122
Australia
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
PORT ADELAIDE
Did you read it? Did you understand it? It is exactly what I have been saying, ie. The Vaccinnes are not a magic bullet and they need to be employed alongside the things that we have alraedy been doing.

The Imperial College of London says that in the UK, the uniform decrease in age groups means that there is no evidence that the vaccination programme is behind the fall in infections. The reason for the falls are the lockdowns.

I am not saying that the vaccines are a bad thing, far from it, what I am saying is that if the vaccines are treated as some sort of panacea, then we are deep sh*t because what will happen, is that people will start behaving as if everything is hunk dory and in Australia. We have put the bloody thing in a corner and if we made one more, concerted push, we would eradicate it, if we take our foot off it's throat and let it out again, then we are in deep sh*t!
 

Sanders

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 1, 2012
28,700
39,621
AFL Club
Adelaide
Did you read it? Did you understand it? It is exactly what I have been saying, ie. The Vaccinnes are not a magic bullet and they need to be employed alongside the things that we have alraedy been doing.

The Imperial College of London says that in the UK, the uniform decrease in age groups means that there is no evidence that the vaccination programme is behind the fall in infections. The reason for the falls are the lockdowns.

I am not saying that the vaccines are a bad thing, far from it, what I am saying is that if the vaccines are treated as some sort of panacea, then we are deep sh*t because what will happen, is that people will start behaving as if everything is hunk dory and in Australia. We have put the bloody thing in a corner and if we made one more, concerted push, we would eradicate it, if we take our foot off it's throat and let it out again, then we are in deep sh*t!
from the guy who laughably said vaccines only reduce symptoms, I’d tread more gently if I were you

the post I quoted (did you read it) said vaccines only start working after second dose
 

Sanders

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 1, 2012
28,700
39,621
AFL Club
Adelaide
The vaccines are good for alleviating the symptoms of the disease when you contract it. There is only a minor increase in stopping the virus from being transmitted but every little bit helps; there is not much evidence, if any, that the vaccines prevent you from being infected. Again, the issue is not that the vaccines are a bad thing, the issue is that people will be convinced into thinking that the vaccines prevent them from being infected and passing it on. What should be happenning is that the vaccines should be "marketed" as being just another tool in fighting the coronavirus and not it being the magic bullet.
can’t believe the guy who posted this is strutting
 

dean33

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 10, 2007
9,648
13,345
melb
AFL Club
Richmond
It makes perfect sense for people to get vaccinated, that's not the issue. The issue is that there must be a campaign run side by side/in conjunction with the campaign to convince people to get vaccinated urging people to carry on doing what they are doing even if they get vaccinated because that is the only way to ensure that we control and eventually eradicate this pathogen.

The vaccines are NOT a magic bullet.

Just to correct you, the increase protection of passing it on is only around 15%, that is, there is still an 85% risk of passing it on.
Not according to Tony Blakely the epidemiologist on the project, but what would he know?
I think social distancing and masks will still be be us for quite a while yet.
 

Sanders

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 1, 2012
28,700
39,621
AFL Club
Adelaide
Not according to Tony Blakely the epidemiologist on the project, but what would he know?
I think social distancing and masks will still be be us for quite a while yet.
epidemiologists tend to be more mathematical than clinicians. Most don’t have any medical training.

They are the ones who plan and model.
 

Northalives

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 12, 2005
6,929
7,122
Australia
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
PORT ADELAIDE
can’t believe the guy who posted this is strutting
What are you on about? strutting!! I am invoved in public health you dumb **** and I know what is happening and what can be unleashed upon this country when f**k wits like Morrison go around saying that soon we will be treating this like the flu and that this is "the first day back to normality" in his true, Trumpesque style.

You come back on here in 6 months and tell us how wonderfully well our complacency has gone and if I'm wrong, I will gladly come back on here and say how wonderful every thing is and I will mean it, because my motivation is and has always been public health. Morrison and his fanboys, the bean counters and money men, they don't give a f**k about the health and well being of human beings; human beings are just stats, it's the filthy lucre that's important to them.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad