Bottoming out to win premierships

[Hornet]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

Carlton WISH they could say Hawthorn tanked to get where they are. They were bad for a while, then they changed coaches Hodgey is a genius and could captain/coach the side.

The first I ever heard the term 'tanking' was in 2005 when Hawthorn were labeled that after the rd21 capitulation against the tigers...

 

[Jizza9]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

Does this mean that the AFL will change the structure of the draft and the Priority Pick?

Hasn't their argument always been that tanking has never earnt a team a flag? Well now it has.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

If we tanked then we arent very good at it becoz we never got the spoon. We would have lost to Richmond in 2004 if we were tanking but we didnt.

Whatever makes you sleep at night

HAWKS = 2008 Premiers

 

[Plogs]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

and the Blues are next...

The only club that glorifies & condones tanking.
Culture.

 

[Blasé]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

well, i'm not quite sure it's that cut and dry. afterall, the saints couldn't even make a gf and their rival, geelong have been successful without tanking.

this is the first time it's happened, and much like cooney winning the brownlow the first time for a first pick, statistically it was due to happen.

i also think that quite a few rookie listed players did well this year too - cambell, sewell, young. and of course we didn't need to tank to get rioli.

the lesson is, quality drafting and player development is essential for success.

 

[cheros eagles]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

so maybe geelong should tank then

 

[Lach72]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

I'm sick of this tanking shit! yes we all know that some teams have thrown games as has been constantly been reported over the last 12 months. Seems now if your down the bootom for 4-5 years like Hawthorn were and then you start to get your personal right both players and football department which leads to onfield success then you are automatically alleged to have tanked all those years ago to get the star players that you have now.

This is bullshit Alistair Clarkson and his football department should be applauded for the hard line which was taken when he first arrived at the football club. Not all teams tank games to get to were they want to

Indeed

 

[Lach72]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

History onviously hasn't taught you anything. Essendon 00, West Coast 06, Geelong 07 - dominate teams expected to dominate for years. What makes you think Hawthorn are any different?

Carlton will be in the money within 2 seasons. I bet as early as this season you were sayng "I can't see the Hawks taking a flag off the Cats". People like you are always behind the ball and you just don't realise it.

If Clarkson's willingness to chop and trade is anything to go by they may stay there longer...Trade out at the right time...the only thing is getting the riches like they have from Freo, although before his time, and North

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

I always thought in order to tank, the idea is to finish bottom. The Hawks haven't finished bottom since 1965.

 

[blackhead&boil]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

I just knew someone would start another lame tanking thread after the hawks won today.

let me just say this, high draft picks are just little bundles of potential. they are very far from the finished product. the progression from high draft pick to high class player is not guaranteed and there are heaps of examples in hawthorn alone of rookie list and low draft picks who go on to great things. just have a look at sewell and mitchell for examples of this. hard work, good training and smart coaching are the reasons for their success. not rolleyes tanking.

and besides, hawthorn obtained most of their high draft picks through smart trading, especially through fremantle and the kangaroos...

 

[mcgarnacle]

JUSTIFIED.

Hawthorn have become the first team to bottom out and successfully rebuild with top picks in the draft system to win a premiership.

IMO, the floodgates will now open up........Carlton are next. Give em a few years, and they'll be racking up #17 and #18 by 2015.

 

[Hawkk]

Hawthorn tanked?

We finished in the bottom 4 in just 2 years over the past decade

 

[timthefish]

Hawthorn tanked?

We finished in the bottom 4 in just 2 years over the past decade

bottoming out is not the same as tanking. playing youth and trading for youth and picks is one thing, deliberately throwing matches to ensure priority picks etc is something completely different.

 

[scarecrow2k1]

Wce?

 

[ManWithNoName]

They didn't tank. Clarko just showed up, got rid of the duds, played the kids, backed them in and he's reaping the benifets. He aimed to keep a winning culture and if you do that you'll get rewarded.

 

[TigerCleavage]

So because it happened once it's justified is it?

 

[THRILLHOU]

So because it happened once it's justified is it?

Hawks and Tigers were at the tail end of the ladder at the same time. Hawks recruited better, and were more ruthless in culling the dead weight. It's not really 'bottoming out'. We were bad, finished bottom four twice, but many of our early picks came from trading (thanks north melbourne and freo!)

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

They bottomed out in 04 and 05.

They also screwed North out of picks for Hay and Thompson.

They screwed Freo out of the Croad deal.

Richmond's poor drafting gave them Buddy and Roughead.

= Premiership success.

 

[THRILLHOU]

They bottomed out in 04 and 05.

They also screwed North out of picks for Hay and Thompson.

They screwed Freo out of the Croad deal.

Richmond's poor drafting gave them Buddy and Roughead.

= Premiership success.

Meanwhile, you have finished bottom four three times in the last four years, still bottom 8 this year, and don't show signs of going anywhere fast. I guess bottoming out isn't really a guaranteed formula for success.

As for 'screwing' North Melbourne, they have nobody to blame but themselves. It's a "trade". As in, both parties have to agree on a deal before it takes place. If they weren't happy with it at the time, they shouldn't have agreed to the trade. Their fault - not ours.

 

[cs61]

Hawthorn finished 15th under Schwab, the year he claimed they were going to win the premiership. We were easily the worst side all year, but we won 2 of the last 4 games and avoided the spoon and gave up the number draft pick. I would say that is the opposite of tanking, and probably the only club to do that in recent times, no ensuring the get the number 1 pick.

The year after we finished 14th under Clarkson, and haven't finish bottom 4 since.

We are nothing like St Kilda or Carlton.

 

[Abaddon]

LOL@Paul Roos

 

[harmesy 37]

bottoming out is not the same as tanking. playing youth and trading for youth and picks is one thing, deliberately throwing matches to ensure priority picks etc is something completely different.

"Bottoming out" is just the same as "tanking" in the sense that you are backing the kids in with game experience. Both Carlton and Hawthorn have young lists.


It is just that non-Carlton supporters don't like Carlton getting Judd, so that they prefer to call that "tanking" while Clarkson playing kids to get experience is labelled as "bottoming out".

Both have got plenty of 1st round draft picks whatever way you look at it.

 

[ManWithNoName]

"Bottoming out" is just the same as "tanking" in the sense that you are backing the kids in with game experience. Both Carlton and Hawthorn have young lists.


It is just that non-Carlton supporters don't like Carlton getting Judd, so that they prefer to call that "tanking" while Clarkson playing kids to get experience is labelled as "bottoming out".

Both have got plenty of 1st round draft picks whatever way you look at it.

No. What Hawthorn did is clear out the deadwood, play the kids and back them in. Tanking is playing crap so you get a whole heap of good draft picks.

 

[M29]

JUSTIFIED.

Hawthorn have become the first team to bottom out and successfully rebuild with top picks in the draft system to win a premiership.

IMO, the floodgates will now open up........Carlton are next. Give em a few years, and they'll be racking up #17 and #18 by 2015.

Where were you last year? Geelong never 'tanked'. Infact, they haven't finished bottom 4 since the 70's IIRC.

 

[Cuzz09]

Wce?

If we can win another flag within 4 years I'll take that.