Carlton's list

[Monkey King]

So you want me to do a list assessment of Richmond on a Carlton thread?

Yes please. You see, you've used a particular rating system i.e. A Grade or Potential A Grade, B+ Potential B+ etc. By itself, these kind of things can be rather arbitrary, so I'd like some reference points from which to better understand your rating system and hence, your assessment; and what better way than seeing how you apply this rating system to your own side. For example, you've rated Jamison a B, which I think is a bit underrated myself; but until I have a reference point, say how you rate Rance and Chaplin for example, it's almost pointless disagreeing it.

 

[Fadge]

Yes please. You see, you've used a particular rating system i.e. A Grade or Potential A Grade, B+ Potential B+ etc. By itself, these kind of things can be rather arbitrary, so I'd like some reference points from which to better understand your rating system and hence, your assessment; and what better way than seeing how you apply this rating system to your own side. For example, you've rated Jamison a B, which I think is a bit underrated myself; but until I have a reference point, say how you rate Rance and Chaplin for example, it's almost pointless disagreeing it.

For a start if Jamison is a B grader, Rance clearly must be A grade. Unless of course you're rating them on their 2011 form... (I know Carlton supporters like to live in the past).

If starting from a blank page Jamo would be a C whilst Rance would be a B grader.

 

[Monkey King]

I suggest Ablett is more chance of playing in a flag at Gold Coast than Judd was ever going to be at Carlton.

Gold Coast front loaded his contract to pay him squillions when he was playing with a list chock full of 18 year old kids. Nothing wrong with managing your list in that manner.

Fair to say Gold Coast are shaping as legitimate Premiership contenders as early as 2015; something we could never say during Judd's time at Carlton.

Umm ... Judd's contract was also heavily front loaded and the list pretty young back in 2007.

The is all a bit hindsight-hero tbh. Carlton actually were rated as contenders at one point. Yes it never came to fruition, who knows with Gold Coast.

Overall, these are pretty pointless comments.

 

[Fadge]

Umm ... Judd's contract was also heavily front loaded and the list pretty young back in 2007.

The is all a bit hindsight-hero tbh. Carlton actually were rated as contenders at one point. Yes it never came to fruition, who knows with Gold Coast.

Overall, these are pretty pointless comments.

Hindsight hero, despite the fact I've been consistently waxing lyrical about it for the past five years?

No, Carlton were never contenders. A contender is a team who are balls deep in a Preliminary Final when the whips are cracking at three quarter time. Not false flag favourites three rounds into a season.

 

[pinot]

We suck - lost all interest. Liverpools off season is more interesting than watching Carlton trying to play football. It's sad and hurts like hell I have lost interest to this degree. I will still renew my membership but have lost all interest - its alarming me. The games are crap, the game style is crap, the skills are garbage. Just a game of who makes more mistakes than who has the best skills.. the game in general has gone down the toilet.

 

[doppleganger]

Hindsight hero, despite the fact I've been consistently waxing lyrical about it for the past five years?

No, Carlton were never contenders. A contender is a team who are balls deep in a Preliminary Final when the whips are cracking at three quarter time. Not false flag favourites three rounds into a season.

Carlton would give anything to be false premiership favourites again like they were @ rd3 of 2012 when Ratts had them purring.

 

[Gavin Excell]

At his best ... I'd say Thomas is a star of the comp. The only question is whether he can get back to it with more footy under his belt.

As for your list assessment, I wouldn't mind seeing you do one for Richmond, just to assess the evenness of your brush strokes so to speak.

Thomas 2014 is a limited footballer

 

[thetradesman]

Yes please. You see, you've used a particular rating system i.e. A Grade or Potential A Grade, B+ Potential B+ etc. By itself, these kind of things can be rather arbitrary, so I'd like some reference points from which to better understand your rating system and hence, your assessment; and what better way than seeing how you apply this rating system to your own side. For example, you've rated Jamison a B, which I think is a bit underrated myself; but until I have a reference point, say how you rate Rance and Chaplin for example, it's almost pointless disagreeing it.

Sweet

A graders or potential A graders
Cotchin
Martin
Reiwoldt
Rance
Ellis

B+ or potential B+
Conca
Deledio
Vlastuin
Maric

B graders or potential B graders
Lennon
Astbury
Miles
Jackson

C+ graders
Houli
Chaplin
Edwards

Everyone else apart from the real young ones aren't gonna cut it.

Why don't you analyse your list in this system?

 

[etsal1]

Where's Grigg?

 

[thetradesman]

Where's Grigg?

Probably pretending to be a footballer down at Punt Road.

 

[Fadge]

Sweet

A graders or potential A graders
Cotchin
Martin
Reiwoldt
Rance
Ellis

B+ or potential B+
Conca
Deledio
Vlastuin
Maric

B graders or potential B graders
Lennon
Astbury
Miles
Jackson

C+ graders
Houli
Chaplin
Edwards

Everyone else apart from the real young ones aren't gonna cut it.

Why don't you analyse your list in this system?

Surely if Gibbs and Murphy are A graders, so too is Deledio?

 

[thetradesman]

Surely if Gibbs and Murphy are A graders, so too is Deledio?

Don't agree.

Gibbs seems to be shaking a tag and working harder! Can't believe im saying that btw

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Thomas 2014 is a limited footballer

Yep. Have been amazed how far off the pace he is. Is he injured???

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Umm ... Judd's contract was also heavily front loaded and the list pretty young back in 2007.

The is all a bit hindsight-hero tbh. Carlton actually were rated as contenders at one point. Yes it never came to fruition, who knows with Gold Coast.

Overall, these are pretty pointless comments.

yep after round 3 2012 sportsbet's $7.00 premiership favorites. just smashed Collingwood, it was a question which pesky flies were gonna stand in carltons way for the premiership. then the next week and some 50 points later Essendon put us in our place and we've been there ever since...

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Yep. Have been amazed how far off the pace he is. Is he injured???

according to mick (which is worth less than the cyberspace this post is taking up) daisy wasn't expected to play until midway through the season due to having surgery on his ankle on off-season which apparently required him to reinvent the way he runs and kicks....he shown steady improvement but a far cry from what we expect from a player on that kind of money....

 

[Old Dark Blues]

Ratten was not giving kids a go under his own steam.
We were so depleted that we had no option but to introduce Bell, Casboult, McInnes etc. and then he was surprised just how well they did.
The development that was going on at our VFL side was deplorable............I know...........I saw it.

Malthouse had nothing to do with Collins. We threw him onto our rookie list in his last year of contract.
Cachia was brought back last year and performed well in his 14 games.........Not well enough to hold his spot but well nevertheless.

Problem was that we had no development strategies in the VFL through Rattens tenure.
The Northern Blues team isn't performing particularly well this year but the strategies and supports systems are evident.
The kids want to play as Johnson was given his first game last week with Holman and Sheehan likely to be used before years end.

This is just rubbish - why do insist on just making stuff up ?

Ratten did HEAPS of development - the plain, simple absolute FACT of the matter is that he had a FAR worse list, by MILES, than Mick Malthouse was handed and got the very best out of them, because thats Rattens strength.
He developed the young guys and had them firing - absolutely blistering. To say otherwise is unmitigated shit.

Rattens work at Hawthorn is all we need to look at to see how good he is. He is running the midfield - two years - and absoltuely SMASHING the AFL - congratulations to Ratten.

You've already raised bloody Richardson - he was our development coach - so it was his fault ?

You bang on about the VFL - I already pointed out that Ratten was not even allowed to attend the matches because Hyde was refusing to talk to him.

Further Ratten was suffering the worst recruiting in Carlton history.


Seriously the desperation for Carlton supporters to blame Ratten is quite sickening. He did one of the most amazing jobs, at one of the lowest points in our clubs history, restored us to finals, had the players playing the best they have played this century, FAR BETTER THAN ANYTHING MICK HAS DONE - and is being blamed for Mick Malthouses SHIT performance.

What's worse people are simply re-writing history and making stuff up.


Show some integrity here - seriously sad stuff watching supporters just stick the knife straight into Rattens back the minute he walks out of the club and lay all the blame at his feet - it isn't true and MICK BLOODY MALTHOUSE needs to shoulder some responsibility for where the club is at right now - which is second to last on the ladder - disgusting - ONLY MICKS FAULT - not Rattens.

 

[Gone Critical]

according to mick (which is worth less than the cyberspace this post is taking up) daisy wasn't expected to play until midway through the season due to having surgery on his ankle on off-season which apparently required him to reinvent the way he runs and kicks....he shown steady improvement but a far cry from what we expect from a player on that kind of money....

You have got this wrong. Thomas didn't have any surgery in the off season. The suggestion that he should came from some medical opinions Collingwood had obtained. So far the decision not to have surgery has been a success. If he had had surgery 2014 would have been largely gone for him.

 

[Klaus]

according to mick (which is worth less than the cyberspace this post is taking up) daisy wasn't expected to play until midway through the season due to having surgery on his ankle on off-season which apparently required him to reinvent the way he runs and kicks....he shown steady improvement but a far cry from what we expect from a player on that kind of money....

It was a terrible recruitment decision and reeked of Malthouse wanting his favourite son to play for his team, at the expense of the clubs genuine needs.

Carlton were crying out for Key Forwards and Defenders, so they go after a washed up midfielder - where is the sense in that!? Collingwood must be laughing at how well they've done from that deal, they've undeservedly netted a first round draft pick due to Carlton's incredibly stupidity.

 

[carl m]

It was a terrible recruitment decision and reeked of Malthouse wanting his favourite son to play for his team, at the expense of the clubs genuine needs.

Carlton were crying out for Key Forwards and Defenders, so they go after a washed up midfielder - where is the sense in that!? Collingwood must be laughing at how well they've done from that deal, they've undeservedly netted a first round draft pick due to Carlton's incredibly stupidity.

Carlton's incredible stupidity just keeps going and going, just hope it never ends

 

[Fadge]

Thomas 2014 is a limited footballer

If he's on $625K for four years, does it mean he has to play like a $800K a year player for the next 3 years for Carlton to break even?

 

[carl m]

If he's on $625K for four years, does it mean he has to play like a $800K a year player for the next 3 years for Carlton to break even?

No, it means he has a healthy bank account and the footballing fraternity p!sses themselves laughing at how stupid Carlton were...

 

[Monkey King]

Why don't you analyse your list in this system?

A graders or potential A graders
Murphy
Gibbs
Menzel
Thomas
Yarran
Kreuzer

B+ or potential B+
Henderson
Simpson
Walker
Jamison
Docherty
Garlett

B graders or potential B graders
Graham
Carrazzo
Buckley
Tuohy

C+ or potential C+
White
Curnow
Everitt
McInnes
Warnock
Casboult

Others
A couple of prospective young guys like Johnson, Holman and Sheehan who will be left unrated.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

A graders or potential A graders
Murphy
Gibbs
Menzel
Thomas
Yarran
Kreuzer

B+ or potential B+
Henderson
Simpson
Walker
Jamison
Docherty
Garlett

B graders or potential B graders
Graham
Carrazzo
Buckley
Tuohy

C+ or potential C+
White
Curnow
Everitt
McInnes
Warnock
Casboult

Others
A couple of prospective young guys like Johnson, Holman and Sheehan who will be left unrated.

menzel and Thomas aren't a graders right now. but I'd say simpson is. and take walker and garlett out of B graders and put them to Z-Graders. 2 dumb mentally weak footballers. I wanted them both traded right now while they still carry some market value.

 

[Monkey King]

Carlton were crying out for Key Forwards and Defenders, so they go after a washed up midfielder - where is the sense in that!? Collingwood must be laughing at how well they've done from that deal, they've undeservedly netted a first round draft pick due to Carlton's incredibly stupidity.

No, Carlton were not crying out of Key Defenders. Not sure where you got this idea. Yes, Carlton were crying out for quality KPF's, but I'm a bit confused by your comment; could you please tell me who we overlooked in this category in going after Thomas? Carlton were also crying out for class in the midfield, which is why Thomas was recruited. As for him being a washed up mid, it never ceases to astonish me how many chook brains there are on BF. It's like they're fund managers bound by the demands of an annual return. Player stocks drop on poor form and rise on good form every season, while the quality of player seems never to come into it.

 

[Monkey King]

menzel and Thomas aren't a graders right now. but I'd say simpson is. and take walker and garlett out of B graders and put them to Z-Graders. 2 dumb mentally weak footballers. I wanted them both traded right now while they still carry some market value.

It's A grade or potential A grade. I wouldn't say Yarran is A Grade right now either, but he has that potential. Simpson for me is one of those on the fringe of his rating. Walker's not in great form, but I'm not chasing formlines. Same with Garlett. He's a shocker right now, but it's no secret his got offield troubles and when it comes to what he's capable of, surely he gets some credit for previous seasons.