Changes for Brisbane

[Pilchard_Adams]

Bit OT but when do Sundays line ups get finalised these days? Wasnt it 6pm Friday last year???

 

[Elite Crow]

I it was taken to a vote i think Pets would get the thumbs up over Stiffy ....because he adds to the side what we sadly lacked last week ....Pressure

And i said during the week that despite all the contrary opinions ...Sando is thinking the same way and see's the value Pets brings to the side

Have you watched last weeks replay? Pets added **** all. Yes he had some tackles but that was it. He had a restricted preseason and played a half a game. He isn't god that allows him to be a walk up start when he's underdone. Now we've added another player who hasn't played for a month. That's why I'm pissed, I said before the game we shouldn't be picking Callinan because he isn't match fit. If you don't believe that's my motives BACCS I suggest you do a search.

 

[King Elvis]

I it was taken to a vote i think Pets would get the thumbs up over Stiffy ....because he adds to the side what we sadly lacked last week ....Pressure

And i said during the week that despite all the contrary opinions ...Sando is thinking the same way and see's the value Pets brings to the side

Our tackling was pathetic across basically the entire side - having a player who does very little except be a specialist tackler doesn't address that.

 

[Elite Crow]

Our tackling was pathetic across basically the entire side - having a player who does very little except be a specialist tackler doesn't address that.

I'm going to spend the year practicing my tackling in the hope of getting drafted

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Hopefully Callinan earns his spot after Stiffy kicked 6 tonight...edit 7

 

[PykeDream]

Sorry Thommo51...... 2 out of 4 aint bad

Haha nice work Scoota, you got me

 

[Schulzycrow]

Hopefully Callinan earns his spot after Stiffy kicked 6 tonight...edit 7

Kerridge with 30 and Riley's done a hammy.

 

[King Elvis]

How many tackles for Kerridge?

 

[Elite Crow]

How many tackles for Kerridge?

10 and 8 clearances

 

[amer]

interesting comment

so why can't we win finals?

Because our players aren't being adequately conditioned and prepared culturally. The talent has been thereabouts for a decade plus.

What do we know? We know that for wins and losses versus flags won in the decade just gone we were an appalling, conspicuous outlier. We've seen changes of coach, changes of captain and after a total list turnover, a failure resembling our previous ones under yet another coach; losing a final at home that we were fancied to win, and then falling "gallantly" in a prelim we should never have found ourselves in.

Look at the competition record for the years 2000-2009:

http://forum.sportal.com.au/viewthread.aspx?t=68053

TEAM WINS LOSSES DRAWS POINTS F POINTS A PERCENTAGE POINTS Grand Finals Premierships
GEL 133 84 3 21642 19193 1148.76 538 3 2
ADL 129 91 0 21115 18669 1145.95 516 0 0
BRS 125 91 4 22544 20097 1131.88 508 4 3
PAD 126 92 2 21764 20278 1090.04 508 2 1
SYD 119 98 3 20664 18608 1117.5 482 2 1
ESS 114 103 3 22308 21600 1057.25 462 2 1
COL 113 107 0 21241 20554 1046.81 452 2 0
STK 110 107 3 20773 20473 1059.91 446 1 0
WCE 109 108 3 20732 21393 992.08 442 2 1
NME 109 108 3 20967 21738 964.52 442 0 0
HAW 105 115 0 20195 21051 971.08 420 1 1
WBD 102 114 4 22623 23142 990.23 416 0 0
MEL 92 127 1 20504 22530 923.16 370 1 0
FRE 92 128 0 19714 21717 919.75 368 0 0
RIC 84 133 3 19450 22537 869.19 342 0 0
CAR 81 137 2 20730 23390 913.63 328 0 0

We are just four wins behind Geelong, and AHEAD of Brisbane, and we are the only team in the top 7 not to have appeared in AT LEAST 2 grand finals. We are an embarrassing, blatant outlier among the top clubs. You just cringe every time you read this, because it lays bare that we are doing something very wrong, over and over again.

How does it look this decade? Now we've sorted our coaching coordination again, we're off to a familiar start. That 2012 campaign was a carbon copy of 2005. Beaten at home when fancied, "gallant" in defeat in a prelim with the odds supposedly stacked against us. Another season like last year and we are starting to shift into that shameful conversation again. If the coaches are changing, the players are changing, and our opposition is changing, what is continually happening to see us achieve the same results? Culture, which is controlled at the top, is the most likely culprit.

As for how it relates to this week's game - Our patterns are plainly observable and predictable in terms of both shooting ourselves in the foot, and the more depressing pattern, laying those classic "Adelaide markers" - those times where we're presented with a stage to flex our muscle as a club, and we lose. That in mind, we will lose one or both of our next two games. I predict this with extreme confidence because no Adelaide side has been able to do differently in this situation since the 90s. Should we somehow win both, there's nothing to say we shouldn't achieve a top 4 finish again - this is a bind we're in presently, this would be a show of strength and baseline resilience in the group to get it done at home and win our share away. In terms of premiership credentials, no game before Collingwood at the MCG in round 16 will give us good information. That is right at the hot part of the season, when form lines are steady and finals move into view. This is when the pecking order is really established. Between now and then we'll probably beat Hawthorn and West Coast - these are the red herring victories we rack up every time we finish in the top 8; formative clashes masquerading as dress rehearsals that only really tell us we can win at home in the minor round, low stakes, no statements being made.

This is why only 30,000 rock up to finals in Adelaide. People are sick of the same shit, and they already know how it ends.

 

[Mattrox]

Because our players aren't being adequately conditioned and prepared culturally. The talent has been thereabouts for a decade plus.

What do we know? We know that for wins and losses versus flags won in the decade just gone we were an appalling, conspicuous outlier. We've seen changes of coach, changes of captain and after a total list turnover, a failure resembling our previous ones under yet another coach; losing a final at home that we were fancied to win, and then falling "gallantly" in a prelim we should never have found ourselves in.

Look at the competition record for the years 2000-2009:

http://forum.sportal.com.au/viewthread.aspx?t=68053

TEAM WINS LOSSES DRAWS POINTS F POINTS A PERCENTAGE POINTS Grand Finals Premierships
GEL 133 84 3 21642 19193 1148.76 538 3 2
ADL 129 91 0 21115 18669 1145.95 516 0 0
BRS 125 91 4 22544 20097 1131.88 508 4 3
PAD 126 92 2 21764 20278 1090.04 508 2 1
SYD 119 98 3 20664 18608 1117.5 482 2 1
ESS 114 103 3 22308 21600 1057.25 462 2 1
COL 113 107 0 21241 20554 1046.81 452 2 0
STK 110 107 3 20773 20473 1059.91 446 1 0
WCE 109 108 3 20732 21393 992.08 442 2 1
NME 109 108 3 20967 21738 964.52 442 0 0
HAW 105 115 0 20195 21051 971.08 420 1 1
WBD 102 114 4 22623 23142 990.23 416 0 0
MEL 92 127 1 20504 22530 923.16 370 1 0
FRE 92 128 0 19714 21717 919.75 368 0 0
RIC 84 133 3 19450 22537 869.19 342 0 0
CAR 81 137 2 20730 23390 913.63 328 0 0

We are just four wins behind Geelong, and AHEAD of Brisbane, and we are the only team in the top 7 not to have appeared in AT LEAST 2 grand finals. We are an embarrassing, blatant outlier among the top clubs. You just cringe every time you read this, because it lays bare that we are doing something very wrong, over and over again.

How does it look this decade? Now we've sorted our coaching coordination again, we're off to a familiar start. That 2012 campaign was a carbon copy of 2005. Beaten at home when fancied, "gallant" in defeat in a prelim with the odds supposedly stacked against us. Another season like last year and we are starting to shift into that shameful conversation again. If the coaches are changing, the players are changing, and our opposition is changing, what is continually happening to see us achieve the same results? Culture, which is controlled at the top, is the most likely culprit.

As for how it relates to this week's game - Our patterns are plainly observable and predictable in terms of both shooting ourselves in the foot, and the more depressing pattern, laying those classic "Adelaide markers" - those times where we're presented with a stage to flex our muscle as a club, and we lose. That in mind, we will lose one or both of our next two games. I predict this with extreme confidence because no Adelaide side has been able to do differently in this situation since the 90s. Should we somehow win both, there's nothing to say we shouldn't achieve a top 4 finish again - this is a bind we're in presently, this would be a show of strength and baseline resilience in the group to get it done at home and win our share away. In terms of premiership credentials, no game before Collingwood at the MCG in round 16 will give us good information. That is right at the hot part of the season, when form lines are steady and finals move into view. This is when the pecking order is really established. Between now and then we'll probably beat Hawthorn and West Coast - these are the red herring victories we rack up every time we finish in the top 8; formative clashes masquerading as dress rehearsals that only really tell us we can win at home in the minor round, low stakes.

This is why only 30,000 rock up to finals in Adelaide. People are sick of the same shit, and they already know how it ends.

......



Nice rant.....


You can't change history by ranting... 05 and 06 and Neil Craig are long gone and you are still in a rage about it.

Get over it, being bitter about the past is not going to change the future.

Change teams and support Melbourne then come back with some perspective.

 

[amer]

......



Nice rant.....


You can't change history by ranting... 05 and 06 and Neil Craig are long gone and you are still in a rage about it.

Get over it, being bitter about the past is not going to change the future.

Change teams and support Melbourne then come back with some perspective.

05? 06?

You mean 02, 03, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 12, and a couple personnel handling failures in between.

 

[Sanders]

I dont believe that, he deserves a proper opportunity.

Why trade for reclamation projects like Lynch & LJ if you don't give em a go?

At some point both need a fair go to see what they have.

 

[Allefgib]

Very interesting reading Amer.

I await the Hawthorn win and then the Pies R16 game with much interest....

In the meantime - I'd push Danger one out forward if Raines gets on top of him.

 

[amer]

Also I didn't make it clear there that those Hawthorn, West Coast and Collingwood predictions are extensions of the defeating both Brisbane and Port Adelaide scenario. If we don't win both, we ain't doing anything this year.

 

[CrowCro]

You seem to contradict yourself a bit there Vader.

You state the changes are fairly simple and that Johncock has made way for Crouch and then spend the rest of your post telling us that Callinan was preferred to Johncock.

Crouch for Martin is fair enough as we all want Crouch in, and we are replacing a mid with a mid. But replacing Stiffy for Callinan considering Callinan hasnt played for awhile is the issue. We saw how good Petrenko was last week after only playing a half in the preseason.

Bickley even said Stiffy was unlucky to be dropped considering the form of others.

I am sick of Martin always dropping back to the SANFL from the sub- interchange. He needs to be given his chance in the team for a greater period. One thing about Sando is that he has no guts- just plays the same old players that Craig did. Patrenko, Wright, Van Berlo are primarily just defensive players and thats where we get killed as we dont have enough speed or creators in the side. There is only room for one of the above guys as given we have so many slow legs in the team ie Rutten, Otten, Vince, Walker etc we need other guys around them with speed that can create ie Martin and even Tambling. The game is about speed these days. And Sando '"start forming your own team and taking some risk. Johncock on the other hand was one of our best ever small defenders , he provides direct run from defence and takes the game on - "my mates and I cant work out why he has been taken out from defence with AN INTENT NEVER TO RETURN. Stupid call by Adelaide. As for Martin I know the kid would be a star if just left in the side for at least 5 games straight- dont ruin a very promising prospect- give him a chance to shine. he always is a standout on training track in all drills and game drills- let him PLAY ADELAIDE.

 

[King Elvis]

Didn't consider that to be a rant - was bloody informative; and pretty damning.

It's insane to see it laid out so clearly like that; the second most dominant team of a decade, with absolutely nothing to show for it; that's brutal.

I tend to agree though - it is cultural; we're afraid of it.

Look at the Crouch situation; no one knows why he wasn't selected round 1, but the only theory people seem to give credence to is that we didn't want to bring him in for the season opener because its too 'big' a game. Then people saying that if he didnt come in this week, we couldn't bring him in the following week because it'd be a showdown, and that'd put too much pressure on him.

That is, quite simply, a losers mentality. Bring him in for the big games, make him want them, make him embrace them and enjoy them - don't baby him with low profile games that don't mean anything come September.

I've mentioned it a few times, but Malthouse, after the Pies lost a couple, came out and said something like, "The same players have failed to perform when it counts too many times - we're now going to select our team to play finals; if good players can't perform in finals, we will move them on."

We're the opposite - we're proud of ourselves for getting so close, but seem incapable of making hard calls to take the next step. The finals last year are a prime example - Callinan and Petrenko were horrible; complete non-entities; yet, here we are, a new year where I assume we want to play finals again, and two guys who have shown they cannot be relied upon in big games are still automatic selections.

Why? They have been tried and failed - so try someone else; if those guys go back to the SANFL and prove they deserve another chance, then select them, but not until then.

Are we going to go into the finals with the same group of players who constantly go to water under pressure, or are we going to build a team to play finals footy?

Last year, we had so many players killing it in the SANFL; how many of them got a game that wasnt as a result of an injury?

Why are we scared of big games?

Why don't we embrace them?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Too true.

Clarke and Biglands, our dynamic ruck duo in 2005 single handedly lose us the prelim vs West Coast. Deplorable display, Cox and Seaby (fricken Seaby) ran rings around us.

The consequence? Nothing.

I've said many times that the nature of the 97/98 flags has harmed our club. We were never the best team but won anyway, so now carry a misguided "make the 8 and anything can happen" attitude.

 

[Thylacinus]

Too true.

Clarke and Biglands, our dynamic ruck duo in 2005 single handedly lose us the prelim vs West Coast. Deplorable display, Cox and Seaby (fricken Seaby) ran rings around us.

You mean this Biglands who did his fairly early in hte game IIRR?

'But he suffered a serious knee injury in the first quarter of the 2006 preliminary final vs the West Coast Eagles at AAMI Stadium. Biglands and several other players dived for the ball in a desperate scramble in front of the interchange bench. As Biglands dived forward, his teammate Nathan Van Berlo dived heavily into his left leg snapping Biglands' left leg about 30 degrees causing him to clutch the knee and tearing the ACL inside his knee; he limped off and attempted to come back, but was to no avail. After missing the 2007 season due to reconstructive surgery of the knee, he sustained instability in the knee during a summer training session as the reconstructed ligament gave away. He had a second reconstruction on the knee in late February 2008.'

 

[Elite Crow]

All interesting posts. How do we make our side better if we don't see if the players on our list can be better than those who have failed before them? I'll bring up Crouch again, not being able to fit a top 5 draft pick into your side for round one after a year of development and after coming off his best NAB cup game was beyond belief. It was better and safer to stick with the entrenched one in Douglas. We know what we have with Douglas, he's an okay footballer and he's unlikely to ever be better besides one great game in 8.

Now Kerridge seems to have had a good start to the year, how do we fit him into the side with Lyons and Crouch? Realistically we won't except for the odd game and then mostly they will be the sub. I was really hoping with a change of coach we'd have a change in selection philosophy but appears we have more of the same.

I wonder if Cassisi and Robbie Gray were our players whether they would be playing by now or been made to find form nd fitness in the SANFL

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You mean this Biglands who did his fairly early in hte game IIRR?

'But he suffered a serious knee injury in the first quarter of the 2006 preliminary final vs the West Coast Eagles at AAMI Stadium. Biglands and several other players dived for the ball in a desperate scramble in front of the interchange bench. As Biglands dived forward, his teammate Nathan Van Berlo dived heavily into his left leg snapping Biglands' left leg about 30 degrees causing him to clutch the knee and tearing the ACL inside his knee; he limped off and attempted to come back, but was to no avail. After missing the 2007 season due to reconstructive surgery of the knee, he sustained instability in the knee during a summer training session as the reconstructed ligament gave away. He had a second reconstruction on the knee in late February 2008.'

No, that was 2006

 

[AFC979810]

All interesting posts. How do we make our side better if we don't see if the players on our list can be better than those who have failed before them? I'll bring up Crouch again, not being able to fit a top 5 draft pick into your side for round one after a year of development and after coming off his best NAB cup game was beyond belief. It was better and safer to stick with the entrenched one in Douglas. We know what we have with Douglas, he's an okay footballer and he's unlikely to ever be better besides one great game in 8.

Now Kerridge seems to have had a good start to the year, how do we fit him into the side with Lyons and Crouch? Realistically we won't except for the odd game and then mostly they will be the sub. I was really hoping with a change of coach we'd have a change in selection philosophy but appears we have more of the same.

I wonder if Cassisi and Robbie Gray were our players whether they would be playing by now or been made to find form nd fitness in the SANFL

I agree with you on the fact that Crouch should have played last week.

However - hate the fact that you once again bring up Douglas who should have been dropped.

I get the fact that so many on here are upset that we seem to "settle" and we lose finals and we don't blood enough youngsters.

The combination of our success last year and the fact its not even rd 3 means that there should be absolutely no bitching and moaning about the fact that Lyons / Kerridge / Riley aren't getting a game after each has had one solid performance in the SANFL.

You can only win a flag from the top 4. We were a top 4 team last led by our younger players. We should be striving to get top 4 again. That means that we play our best 22 until we are locked into or out of the top 4.

And comparing Robbie Gray and Cassisi's situations are a fair bit different than Callinans.

Robbie Gray is coming back from a knee reco and hasn't played footy since last April. I don't believe Cassis played much at all in the preseason.

Callinan had a full preseason until he had a knock to the knee against Carlton. All he has missed is 1 match more than the rest of the blokes. Hardly 'underdone' i would say.

 

[Elite Crow]

Question do you think Douglas is a premiership quality player? Would he be missed if he wasn't playing? You said we were led by our younger players, how much did Douglas contribute to our top 4 push? And what success are you talking about? Our NAB cup win? Because we lost 2 of 3 finals after blowing another chance to play in a GF, if that's success we have a losers mentality,

Lyons and Riley have had more than one solid SANFL game. How do we make a decision on them if they don't play or do we do what we do with Martin and keep him on the list for 5 years for sub games?

As for Cassisi, he's played one game back. Be honest, do you think we would have played him by now? Ignore the Callinan comparison. Even though Callinan is underdone and not match fit or in form if he hasn't played for over a month, didn't he get his knock pretty early against Carlton and wasn't he shit against Geelong?

 

[AFC979810]

Question do you think Douglas is a premiership quality player? Would he be missed if he wasn't playing? You said we were led by our younger players, how much did Douglas contribute to our top 4 push? And what success are you talking about? Our NAB cup win? Because we lost 2 of 3 finals after blowing another chance to play in a GF, if that's success we have a losers mentality,

Lyons and Riley have had more than one solid SANFL game. How do we make a decision on them if they don't play or do we do what we do with Martin and keep him on the list for 5 years for sub games?

As for Cassisi, he's played one game back. Be honest, do you think we would have played him by now? Ignore the Callinan comparison. Even though Callinan is underdone and not match fit or in form if he hasn't played for over a month, didn't he get his knock pretty early against Carlton and wasn't he shit against Geelong?

Absolutely Douglas would be missed. I am not sure how you can define a player as 'premiership quality' to be honest, but I would say that he is closer to McLeod than he is to Ben Marsh.

Our success last year was the fact that we made top 4 and gave ourselves every chance of making a grandfinal. That should be our goal this year. Make the top 4 and give us the best chance of winning a flag. We should be playing our best side (or what we think will be our best side come round 22 - ie Crouch) every week and trying to make top 4. Opportunities through injuries / poor form / suspension will allow for our younger players to be given every chance.

There is no way in hell Dom would get a spot in our midfield - so no we would not have played him.

Callinan is best 22 for us evidenced by the fact that he played 23 games - kicked 39 goals and had 20 goal assists. He has earned his spot and first crack. He has not had too long out of the game and has one less game than the rest of the squad.

 

[Elite Crow]

Absolutely Douglas would be missed. I am not sure how you can define a player as 'premiership quality' to be honest, but I would say that he is closer to McLeod than he is to Ben Marsh.

Our success last year was the fact that we made top 4 and gave ourselves every chance of making a grandfinal. That should be our goal this year. Make the top 4 and give us the best chance of winning a flag. We should be playing our best side (or what we think will be our best side come round 22 - ie Crouch) every week and trying to make top 4. Opportunities through injuries / poor form / suspension will allow for our younger players to be given every chance.

There is no way in hell Dom would get a spot in our midfield - so no we would not have played him.

Callinan is best 22 for us evidenced by the fact that he played 23 games - kicked 39 goals and had 20 goal assists. He has earned his spot and first crack. He has not had too long out of the game and has one less game than the rest of the squad.

I'm sure if we didn't have Douglas's average of 17.5 possessions in 2012 we wouldn't have made the top 4. Because his replacement would have had none.

Every other major contender for 2013 has improved their list, we've gone backwards. Where is our improvement going to come from? Douglas moving to 19.5?

I don't mean Cassisi the player as such, more so his status in the team. A similar player in Adelaide would have been picked.

Callinan has had 2 less games than the rest of the squad, he was injured early against Carlton and due to his knee can not have had the same training load as the rest of the players. He has had no form this preseason and his last 3 games of 2012 were shit.