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Changes for Round 6 v Adelaide
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People have been grizzling since 2008 about our lack of midfield depth and poor drafting. Despite that, we still played in 7 finals series, 3 prelims and two gfs since then. The key was drafting for talls and trading for smalls.
Kelly wasn't just a trade for now, he is also a key pillar in making sure we don't fall off a cliff. Redden and Shuey were both drafted in 2008 and a serious injury would pretty much see the end of their career. Yes, we need more depth, but I expect we'll be focusing on trading and drafting mids over the next few drafts.
We are almost certain to have a couple of down years as we transition the list, but we've done an amazing job of it so far, considering it started at end of 2017. All clubs go through this, but hopefully we won't be looking at 4+ years out of finals, which many teams have had to endure (Melbourne, Carlton, Saints, Bulldogs, Pies, Tigers, Freo, Norf etc)
Kelly wasn't just a trade for now, he is also a key pillar in making sure we don't fall off a cliff. Redden and Shuey were both drafted in 2008 and a serious injury would pretty much see the end of their career. Yes, we need more depth, but I expect we'll be focusing on trading and drafting mids over the next few drafts.
We are almost certain to have a couple of down years as we transition the list, but we've done an amazing job of it so far, considering it started at end of 2017. All clubs go through this, but hopefully we won't be looking at 4+ years out of finals, which many teams have had to endure (Melbourne, Carlton, Saints, Bulldogs, Pies, Tigers, Freo, Norf etc)
If this midfield depth is truly a problem, then it's been this way for some seasons now. This topic has done the rounds a good many times. Remember Darling was being touted in the mid, or get Hurn in the mid-he's a big body and can nearly kick a goal from the centre square...all that talk. There's been countless suggestions and very little outcome or change.
In theory we are supposed to have Venables and Rioli as midfield options on the bench. We lost an up and coming in Venables and genuine firepower in Rioli, but we picked up Tim Kelly - hailed as a classy set of wheels, just settling in. But regardless of how good he might get, it reminds me of just how good Rioli was! TK is smooth but he's no Rioli... Rioli can do a TK, but he also has that magic!
AhChee was supposed to be a bustling midfielder and has been on the edges for awhile - he looks like he improves with more game-time, which is better than some and needs to settle into a spot.
We lost Hutchings and Masto of course..
Brander hasn't dazzled, but has been fairly capable given he's an experiment?
Ainsworth is filling, padding, a stand-in? (unless he has changed recently?).
Isn't there still Exxon, Brayshaw, Foley and whoever else to work their way into the midfield?
Re the 'crises' we seem to have paid attention to the need, and have them on paper, but the footy gods have been unkind and seem to take an extra toll on midfielders making it through to fruition?
We're supposed to have one of the classiest mids in the league presently?
If TK comes good pretty soon, and we have maybe 3-4 players considered solid enough for midfield depth/experimentation, then we're not doing too bad?
Don't forget Nic Natanui....and the eventual return of Rioli. (Venables might be over, sadly)
I found this Shuey comment interesting - “They Flicked a few things around on the weekend (against Sydney) and it really worked for us, we played a brand that was more like us over the last few years than what the last three or four weeks have been.” - it suggests they've been trying a new plan that didn't work so they reverted to the old one? Also because it was a must win game? Why didn't they "flick' these things around in previous games?
In theory we are supposed to have Venables and Rioli as midfield options on the bench. We lost an up and coming in Venables and genuine firepower in Rioli, but we picked up Tim Kelly - hailed as a classy set of wheels, just settling in. But regardless of how good he might get, it reminds me of just how good Rioli was! TK is smooth but he's no Rioli... Rioli can do a TK, but he also has that magic!
AhChee was supposed to be a bustling midfielder and has been on the edges for awhile - he looks like he improves with more game-time, which is better than some and needs to settle into a spot.
We lost Hutchings and Masto of course..
Brander hasn't dazzled, but has been fairly capable given he's an experiment?
Ainsworth is filling, padding, a stand-in? (unless he has changed recently?).
Isn't there still Exxon, Brayshaw, Foley and whoever else to work their way into the midfield?
Re the 'crises' we seem to have paid attention to the need, and have them on paper, but the footy gods have been unkind and seem to take an extra toll on midfielders making it through to fruition?
We're supposed to have one of the classiest mids in the league presently?
If TK comes good pretty soon, and we have maybe 3-4 players considered solid enough for midfield depth/experimentation, then we're not doing too bad?
Don't forget Nic Natanui....and the eventual return of Rioli. (Venables might be over, sadly)
I found this Shuey comment interesting - “They Flicked a few things around on the weekend (against Sydney) and it really worked for us, we played a brand that was more like us over the last few years than what the last three or four weeks have been.” - it suggests they've been trying a new plan that didn't work so they reverted to the old one? Also because it was a must win game? Why didn't they "flick' these things around in previous games?
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It’s funny, but for all his faults Matt never ever took one backward step in a contest. Id love to see that in one of our current crop.
I often think he’d be the ideal running mate now to a midfield of Kelly, Shuey, Gaff & Yeo. Where he’s not the #1 mid, but he’d do all the dirty work on the inside and let those guys take advantage of his strengths.
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Free agency changed the landscape imo.
More players will change clubs in thr coming years making draft picks less valuavle than previous years where that was pretty much the only way to get talent
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More players will change clubs in thr coming years making draft picks less valuavle than previous years where that was pretty much the only way to get talent
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“AGAINST THE TEAM THAT HE DIDN’T WANT”
or
“AGAINST THE TEAM THAT HELD HIM AND HIS FAMILY HOSTAGE”
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Dark Sharks
Premium Kent
Just to touch on what Asterix said, summarizing, if you want a midfielder, you should DRAFT a midfielder..
I think it would also be sensible to say if you want a midfielder, draft a potential AFL LEVEL midfielder. Not someone who has no scope at the top level as a mid.
Take Parto for example. played midfield throughout juniors and dominated. He was an AA midfielder.
He then goes onto play good goal kicking senior footy in the midfield for East Perth to the point where fans put enough pressure on Simpson to finally give him a crack after consistent good form.
He plays 6 straight games off the half forward flank, kicking 3 goals and averaging 12 touches.
If anything, i think he impressed fans with that stint, which included an epic final, and yet he never gets a crack in the middle. And is never seen again.
He doesn't even make an appearance in the JLT in 2018.
Now i'm not sure Parto had what it takes to be an AFL quality midfielder anyway, (considering he still hasn't been picked up by anyone else) but in true West Coast fashion, we once again drafted a midfielder and then the only exposure we gave him was off the flank. So why'd we draft him then?
Simpson has touched on that several times now, and made the change so we're playing more forwards and hiding less midfielders on the HFF these days.
I agree with what Obeanie1 is saying about throwing young mids to the wolves. But if we're going to draft a midfielder, and a well credentialed one at that, i don't want us plonking them on the HFF forever until they fail, then delisting them. Fingers crossed for Mitch O'Neil when he comes back.
If you want a flanker, draft one. If you want a midfielder who can actually play mid at AFL level, draft one and let him play midfield.
Fremantle are doing it correctly, albeit slowly with Brayshaw. They've managed his minutes and CBA's throughout his first 2 seasons in the guts, playing him off the wing and HFF, to the point now where he's getting more TOG and stints in the guts. It frustrates some of their fans but it's sensible and should bare fruit.
I think it would also be sensible to say if you want a midfielder, draft a potential AFL LEVEL midfielder. Not someone who has no scope at the top level as a mid.
Take Parto for example. played midfield throughout juniors and dominated. He was an AA midfielder.
He then goes onto play good goal kicking senior footy in the midfield for East Perth to the point where fans put enough pressure on Simpson to finally give him a crack after consistent good form.
He plays 6 straight games off the half forward flank, kicking 3 goals and averaging 12 touches.
If anything, i think he impressed fans with that stint, which included an epic final, and yet he never gets a crack in the middle. And is never seen again.
He doesn't even make an appearance in the JLT in 2018.
Now i'm not sure Parto had what it takes to be an AFL quality midfielder anyway, (considering he still hasn't been picked up by anyone else) but in true West Coast fashion, we once again drafted a midfielder and then the only exposure we gave him was off the flank. So why'd we draft him then?
Simpson has touched on that several times now, and made the change so we're playing more forwards and hiding less midfielders on the HFF these days.
I agree with what Obeanie1 is saying about throwing young mids to the wolves. But if we're going to draft a midfielder, and a well credentialed one at that, i don't want us plonking them on the HFF forever until they fail, then delisting them. Fingers crossed for Mitch O'Neil when he comes back.
If you want a flanker, draft one. If you want a midfielder who can actually play mid at AFL level, draft one and let him play midfield.
Fremantle are doing it correctly, albeit slowly with Brayshaw. They've managed his minutes and CBA's throughout his first 2 seasons in the guts, playing him off the wing and HFF, to the point now where he's getting more TOG and stints in the guts. It frustrates some of their fans but it's sensible and should bare fruit.
- Sep 28, 2009
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Fremantle dont have a midfield though apart from Fyfe so it makes sense to persist with youth. We've had a core group of mids playing for the last 8 years. Shuey, Gaff, Priddis, Sheed, Redden, Hutchings, Yeo in recent years and now Kelly. It hasn't been an easy group to break in to.
Dark Sharks
Premium Kent
The time to break into our midfield was 2018 and he was ignored.
Yeo was an AA half back in 2017, so him in the midfield was still only developing. Priddis and Mitchell had just retired.
Hutchings straight up sucks, Redden was in and out of the team, along with Sheed. Neither of these 3 hardly had an established position in our midfield.
Bit like Ah Chee, getting injured and Marsden swooping in in 2018. Partington missed his window.
I'm still actually a bit disappointed with that. I think he could've been a quality player if given a proper run at it. Had plenty of Lachie Neale traits.
Harshly gets delisted after we win the flag in 2018, despite winning the B&F for East Perth, and promptly goes on to win the Margery medal as the SANFL's best player in 2019. He's still only 23.
We've given spuds with less talent more opportunities, and a lot longer on our list. Mcinnes had 8 years FFS. Parto got 3.
Yeo was an AA half back in 2017, so him in the midfield was still only developing. Priddis and Mitchell had just retired.
Hutchings straight up sucks, Redden was in and out of the team, along with Sheed. Neither of these 3 hardly had an established position in our midfield.
Bit like Ah Chee, getting injured and Marsden swooping in in 2018. Partington missed his window.
I'm still actually a bit disappointed with that. I think he could've been a quality player if given a proper run at it. Had plenty of Lachie Neale traits.
Harshly gets delisted after we win the flag in 2018, despite winning the B&F for East Perth, and promptly goes on to win the Margery medal as the SANFL's best player in 2019. He's still only 23.
We've given spuds with less talent more opportunities, and a lot longer on our list. Mcinnes had 8 years FFS. Parto got 3.
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He had a disease
- Sep 28, 2009
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There was the rumours of him being a bit of a dick and not a team player. Who knows why he never got a proper go though. I blame Priddis.
Miguel Sanchez
Snide Shooter
Just to move the discussion back about actual changes in the changes thread, here’s my crack at today’s announcement:
In: Cameron, Brayshaw
Out: Jones, Shuey
B: Sheppard, Barrass, Cole
HB: Hurn, McGovern, Duggan
C: Gaff, Kelly, Redden
HF: Cripps, Darling, Waterman
F: Ryan, Kennedy, Ah Chee
R: Naitanui, Sheed, Yeo
I: Nelson, Allen, Cameron, Brayshaw
E: Williams, Rotham, Petruccelle, Reid
Brayshaw to debut in Shuey’s place, although not with the same midfield minutes and CSAs that Shuey normally has, Sheed will probably be the guy to pick up more than he’s been getting. Redden to stay on the wing (for some reason) in the continued absence of Brander who I suspect won’t get up.
Cameron a straight swap for Jones.
No unforced changes. Reid into the emergencies since he’s apparently training the house down.
Considered Partington, Mutimer and Josh Smith for Shuey’s spot but ultimately decided Brayshaw was a better choice.
In: Cameron, Brayshaw
Out: Jones, Shuey
B: Sheppard, Barrass, Cole
HB: Hurn, McGovern, Duggan
C: Gaff, Kelly, Redden
HF: Cripps, Darling, Waterman
F: Ryan, Kennedy, Ah Chee
R: Naitanui, Sheed, Yeo
I: Nelson, Allen, Cameron, Brayshaw
E: Williams, Rotham, Petruccelle, Reid
Brayshaw to debut in Shuey’s place, although not with the same midfield minutes and CSAs that Shuey normally has, Sheed will probably be the guy to pick up more than he’s been getting. Redden to stay on the wing (for some reason) in the continued absence of Brander who I suspect won’t get up.
Cameron a straight swap for Jones.
No unforced changes. Reid into the emergencies since he’s apparently training the house down.
Considered Partington, Mutimer and Josh Smith for Shuey’s spot but ultimately decided Brayshaw was a better choice.
Dark Sharks
Premium Kent
The "bit of a dick" justification was never actually proven IIRC, just speculation to make us feel better about him getting shafted.
I'm actually getting more and more annoyed the more i think about it and look at the stats. He was so far ahead of Brayshaw and Ainsworth it's not even funny.
I think you're probably on the money Fivey.
Not too fussed about the Shuey replacement as i am about the Jones one. Brander/XON/Brayshaw are all fine, Adelaide are a basket case after all.
If it's Petch ahead of Cameron though, i'll be disappointed. We need to get Cameron into this team as soon as possible.
Reid would also throw a spanner in the works if he came in, and then actually played well. Cameron would have to wait even longer.
I'm actually getting more and more annoyed the more i think about it and look at the stats. He was so far ahead of Brayshaw and Ainsworth it's not even funny.
I think you're probably on the money Fivey.
Not too fussed about the Shuey replacement as i am about the Jones one. Brander/XON/Brayshaw are all fine, Adelaide are a basket case after all.
If it's Petch ahead of Cameron though, i'll be disappointed. We need to get Cameron into this team as soon as possible.
Reid would also throw a spanner in the works if he came in, and then actually played well. Cameron would have to wait even longer.
- Aug 27, 2014
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And not Simon Tunbridge?
I also agree these are the likely changes. Brander sounds like he is still another week away anyway.
The only other move I could see is they bring in jetta instead of brayshaw, and move one of nelson or duggan into the midfield for this week.
It will be interesting to see whether jetta being dropped was a 1 week kick up the arse or if they will keep him on the outer until one of our small defenders drops off in form.
Karim Abdul Yeo
Cancelled
- Jul 30, 2013
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Is it just me or our game plan and team selection is heavily suited to perfect conditions. If it rains, we are screwed. I am not blaming any of these individuals due to combination of their current form and obvious history of performing and senior status.Having NN, JK, JD, OA and Waterman in a same lineup is terrible terrible coaching selection playing with fire. Our game relies heavily on kicking and marking, so smart teams will take that away from us by exploiting this. If the weather is bad, they are pretty much just have to show up knowing we are gonna go tall again. now you cant fix this by replacing talls with short either. Us going short does not automatically fix our problem cuz of our game plan of kick mark. I am just perplexed why Simmo continues to persist with tall timber all the time. That's your plan A, it works under specific circumstances, we get it. That game against tigers at the G last year was a perfect example of two half of footy impacted by conditions and obv the opponent was a quality one too who showed up. watching that tape over and over again should be their priority. It is easy said than done, I know but when you lose and the coach same old regurgitation of " we back our boys every week" where conditions are terrible for tall, is pointed at the coach and his support not necessarily the individuals. If from now until GF every week was sunny pitch perfect, you would be silly to bet against us any where in AUS.
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Remember that goal though.
It was against Adelaide IIRC, so he has a good track record for this game.
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Miguel Sanchez
Snide Shooter
Last week was literally the first time all season we went that tall in the forward line. Before that Waterman was out of the team and Allen (or Hickey, as the second ruck) spent little to no time up forward.
It worked very well against Sydney in fine conditions and we’ll probably look similar this week, but what makes you think we’ll just automatically line up like that every week from here on out?
I still reckon he could have been a pretty good player for us if his body wasn't made of tissue paper
Had a good little run in 2016 before he did his knee V GWS?
Yeah and the game he did it in was almost career best up until that point
Eh he wasn't that good. He accumulated the ball at WAFL level but wasn't very damaging.
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