Preview Changes for the Giants game

[Cap]

KE - what I don't understand is that in 2011 he worked his arse off in games which clearly didn't suit him and made an impact. The Geelong and Hawthorn Games come to mind in that instance.

 

[cm_perfect]

We have numerous smaller players in our side to play the crumbing/roving forward role, we don't need a 194cm/100kg beast doing it.

And we were Tippett-centric, but Walker needs to keep his head up and not stop working if he is making unrewarded leads.

He appeared to decide that Tippett was drawing so much of the ball, that there wasn't much point in him providing an option.

Dont get me wrong, Tex had a shocker of a game, its just frustrating to read "why are Tip and Tex always getting in each others way" last year.

Then when Tex lets Tip take on his oponent without getting in the way (which I think was an intruction from the coaches) we have a bunch of posters squealing that Tex should go up in the same contest. The poor bugga cant win !!

In regards to the crumbing rovers you write about, they had as good a day as Tex did..

 

[King Elvis]

KE - what I don't understand is that in 2011 he worked his arse off in games which clearly didn't suit him and made an impact. The Geelong and Hawthorn Games come to mind in that instance.

I think it's just a matter of maturity.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I think I've been pretty consistent in my concerns over his work-rate both offensively and defensively.

Also didn't say the second paragraph, but he will be exposed as a flat track bully, in the long term, if he isn't willing to work harder when things don't go his way.

That's my issue with the Hawthorn game - he didn't work hard enough, it seemed as though he put the cue in the rack because he didn't think it was going to be his day.

But that's my issue, why wasn't it his day?

The general comment is suggest he is lazy or just not good enough and is nothing more than a flat track bully but it's been proven he can perform against top sides. See the comment made by Cap's above. Last year he had fantastic games against Hawthorn, Carlton and Geelong. Yet this week, he's had a bad game and he had achieved nothing in between.

I wasn't happy with his Dogs game either, he's better than he showed in that game.

It seems as though, in your opinion, we aren't allowed to be critical of a players performance without it meaning we think the player in question is shit and has no value or future

Be as critical as you like but look at the player and his performances as a collective unit, not one individual game.

I think he had been fantastic this year with one bad (very poor game) against Hawthorn but why?

Rather than jumping down his throat because he's had a bad game and just assume he's gone back to his old habits, why not look at it and ask, why was this game so bad. Were their other reasons?

That's what shits me about this board, it's always the easy answer. Bag a select few without asking why?

I can't say it enough, I rate Walker enormously, I think he's got the potential to win a Coleman, but he frustrates the hell out of me at the moment, because I believe his biggest single weakness is his work-rate - which should be the easiest thing for him to turn around.

On the flipside, I guess this is what it feels like to finally have a Key Position player who actually has potential.

Hawkins, Schoenmakers, Riewoldt, Hendersen are no different; the reason they get some much attention is because they are capable, but they're probably too young, mentally and physically, to fully show it.

Modra was 24 when he debuted, Tippet was 22 (i think) back in 2009 - give the kid some time. Walker is 21, turning 22 next Wednesday. Lets see how he has improved over the summer. I've seen some major improvements between his worse last year and his best this year. He is getting better and I believe at the moment, you have unrealistic expectations for him to reach. This time next year, I believe his best will far outweigh his worse and that can only take time.

Her will struggle over the next 12 to 18 months, just like the team will and his game is an ever growing process and I honestly believe he is weeding out his bad points.

Don't forget that Tony Modra had some shit awful moment after 1993 as well and he was 25/26 so lets put that into some perspective.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

And you have made up yours Alex....

When it comes to a 21 year old key position forward.....I'll keep an open mind thank you and look at his positives rather than his negatives.

When it comes to a 27 or 28 year old midfielder, half forward or back where they are a dime a dozen - i'll criticize as they are easily replaceable.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I think it's just a matter of maturity.

Exactly right.

Let the kid mature and learn as a key forward.

 

[King Elvis]

The general comment is suggest he is lazy or just not good enough and is nothing more than a flat track bully but it's been proven he can perform against top sides. See the comment made by Cap's above. Last year he had fantastic games against Hawthorn, Carlton and Geelong. Yet this week, he's had a bad game and he had achieved nothing in between.

You're taking comments on a performance or a trend, and turning them into undisputable absolutes.

He can be lazy, and he can be soft; I don't think anybody would argue that?

I don't think many people have suggested he's not good enough.

Be as critical as you like but look at the player and his performances as a collective unit, not one individual game.

I think he had been fantastic this year with one bad (very poor game) against Hawthorn but why?

Rather than jumping down his throat because he's had a bad game and just assume he's gone back to his old habits, why not look at it and ask, why was this game so bad. Were their other reasons?

He has definitely improved, no question, as I said, it's probably a sign of maturity that he can lapse into previous, bad habits.

And I think he had a good game against the GC, a poor game against the Dogs (saved by one quarter, where he basically won us the game off his own boot), and a shocker against Hawthorn.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Taylor Walkers biggest problem has not changed in three years.

He does not have the instincts of a key forward. He doesn't know how to get to the fall of the ball. He often makes a last minute movement towards the fall of the ball but is too late and either an opposition player has an easy mark (think showdown 1 last year) or he gives away a clumsy free kick.

Taylor still thinks like a small forward. A classic example was in the third quarter against Gold Coast. At the 15-26 mark (check it out on HD) Bernie wins a free and bombs it to 15 metres from goal. Tippett was on Brennan and Lynch was nearby marked by May. Taylor and Warnock ran from the square towards the contest. Taylor stops and allows Warnock to get to the contest while he doubles back to the goal square, Warnock spoils Tippett, Petrenko crumbs and kicks it to the goal square to Taylor for an easy goal. At the time I commented "and that's going to work against the good teams"

He can do things that most other tall forwards can't but he still has to do the basics i.e. make a contest.

Bernie is in many ways more disappointing. He can be exceptional in some games and appear totally disinterested in others. He lost me in the Carlton match last year. Playing as a high half forward he continually let his man run the ball down the ground and jogged behind him at half pace. Very few players who can play as well as Bernie have such lows in their bad games.

Should we drop them? They both seem to be very slow learners. I'm afraid that they won't get it until we trade them and then they will come back and bite us on the bum.

 

[Cap]

SO you wanted Walker to come in and be the third Crow in a marking cotenst? one which he was clearly not going to have an impact?

so rather than get goal side, you want him either on the ground from smashing a pack or under the ball? with the most likely result being the smarter defender not going up and cleaning up the crumbs whilst AFC posters scream that Walker should have left the contest for Tippett...

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Taylor Walkers biggest problem has not changed in three years.

He does not have the instincts of a key forward. He doesn't know how to get to the fall of the ball. He often makes a last minute movement towards the fall of the ball but is too late and either an opposition player has an easy mark (think showdown 1 last year) or he gives away a clumsy free kick.
Taylor still thinks like a small forward. A classic example was in the third quarter against Gold Coast. At the 15-26 mark (check it out on HD) Bernie wins a free and bombs it to 15 metres from goal. Tippett was on Brennan and Lynch was nearby marked by May. Taylor and Warnock ran from the square towards the contest. Taylor stops and allows Warnock to get to the contest while he doubles back to the goal square, Warnock spoils Tippett, Petrenko crumbs and kicks it to the goal square to Taylor for an easy goal. At the time I commented "and that's going to work against the good teams"

He can do things that most other tall forwards can't but he still has to do the basics i.e. make a contest.
Bernie is in many ways more disappointing. He can be exceptional in some games and appear totally disinterested in others. He lost me in the Carlton match last year. Playing as a high half forward he continually let his man run the ball down the ground and jogged behind him at half pace. Very few players who can play as well as Bernie have such lows in their bad games.

Should we drop them? They both seem to be very slow learners. I'm afraid that they won't get it until we trade them and then they will come back and bite us on the bum.

Correct.

I think he is to talented not to play for us, he has so many tools other key forwards would kill for... It is up to our coaches to work out where to play him. Full Forward is not the answer.... I still think in 3 or 4 years time, he will be at Full Back. Think Croad, Tarrant...

 

[Cap]

are you mad Freddy Basset?

Walker plays like any leading forward in the history of the game

just because the AFC refuse to kick to leading players, that doesn't mean Walker doesn't have key forward instincts FFS he gets in a position to kick goals nearly every opportunity he can - that is why people like you and a few good men are bitching about him!

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

SO you wanted Walker to come in and be the third Crow in a marking cotenst? one which he was clearly not going to have an impact?

so rather than get goal side, you want him either on the ground from smashing a pack or under the ball? with the most likely result being the smarter defender not going up and cleaning up the crumbs whilst AFC posters scream that Walker should have left the contest for Tippett...

No, his role was to stop Warnock smashing into the back of Tippett on that occasion (just watch the replay!!!). On other occasions his role is to get to the fall of the ball and make a contest. Winning the Joe the Goose award is not part of the plan.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

are you mad Freddy Basset?

Walker plays like any leading forward in the history of the game

just because the AFC refuse to kick to leading players, that doesn't mean Walker doesn't have key forward instincts FFS he gets in a position to kick goals nearly every opportunity he can - that is why people like you and a few good men are bitching about him!

Interesting that a bloke called Dermott Brereton, who played a bit, also comments that Walker is not your normal forward in that most of his goals come from snapshots or off the ground.

 

[Cap]

aren't you cherry picking a fair bit here.

his job is either to kick goals or act as a decoy for Tippet (something I find completely stupid).

You've just complained that he doesn't have the instincts of a key forward, yet now you are insisting his job is to get the crumbs from Tippets feet (assuming that is what you mean by the term "fall of the ball" in this instance - apologies if I'm reading this wrong).

I didn't get to see the full game against Hawthorn, but from what Sanderson said it appeared that Walker was intended to be a decoy for Tippet (again stupid in my books) but he closed with the comments of the nature that "we didn't find Walker in space" , this statement is a bit confusing because I don't know if he means Walker didn't make space, or he didn't and the Crows players didn't look up.

So clearly there is an intention to use Walker in a capacity but what that is I can't tell you (until we play Port Power and I'm at the game)

 

[Cap]

Interesting that a bloke called Dermott Brereton, who played a bit, also comments that Walker is not your normal forward in that most of his goals come from snapshots or off the ground.

I'll raise you Dermie with Bassett..... I know whose opinion I value higher.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Interesting that a bloke called Dermott Brereton, who played a bit, also comments that Walker is not your normal forward in that most of his goals come from snapshots or off the ground.

What does Brereton say about Franklin?

 

[Freddy Bassett]

What does Brereton say about Franklin?

That he has amazing pace and endurance hence the reason he is pushing so far up the ground now. Very rare we see Franklin playing out the goalsquare these days. But I do agree, they play a similar forward role albeit without the pace.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

I'll raise you Dermie with Bassett..... I know whose opinion I value higher.

Are you complimenting me?

In all seriousness, not many players I have seen read the play aswell as Nathan. And he was an elite forward as a kid... Horrible kick though

 

[kaltmeibel]

The thing with Taylor is that if he doesn't kick goals he's a complete liability out there. Same can't be said for Tippett as he can create goals by making a genuine contest. If Taylor has 0 goals next to his name at the end of a game...you can tell that he was probably one of the worst players on the ground. He needs to learn how to impact a game without kicking sausage rolls. It's a reason why Tippett's a better player at this stage.

Good post. It's like playing with 17 men.

If not on my phone I would check his goals last year against good teams and bad teams. So far this year against good teams 0.

 

[kaltmeibel]

Interesting that a bloke called Dermott Brereton, who played a bit, also comments that Walker is not your normal forward in that most of his goals come from snapshots or off the ground.

Fair observation.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Good post. It's like playing with 17 men.

If not on my phone I would check his goals last year against good teams and bad teams. So far this year against good teams 0.

Not sure about that Kalty.... It is impossible to criticise him on his goals per game against good or bad teams. It is very good for the modern game...

 

[Puddy]

How far away if Tambling? got alot of the ball for Sturt

 

[Wood_Duck]

That he has amazing pace and endurance hence the reason he is pushing so far up the ground now. Very rare we see Franklin playing out the goalsquare these days. But I do agree, they play a similar forward role albeit without the pace.

To be fair, he played almost the entire game there against Geelong.

 

[Cap]

Are you complimenting me?

In all seriousness, not many players I have seen read the play aswell as Nathan. And he was an elite forward as a kid... Horrible kick though

The funny thing about basset, well from my memory is I don't recall him missing many set shots when he had the opportunity.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

The funny thing about basset, well from my memory is I don't recall him missing many set shots when he had the opportunity.

At school versus Powerhouse schools like Sacred Heart and Rostrevor I remember him almost winning the game off his own boot a few times, tripple teamed, kicking scores like 9.12 etc.... Unstoppable in the air