Preview Changes for the Giants game

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Na, it's all Andy Otten's fault.

Has he been dropped, we would have won by 15 goals.

Were my comments a bit too complicated for you Slippery.

It's much easier just slinging it around I guess.

 

[King Elvis]

Nah, it sucks when somebody deliberately misrepresents the other sides argument and uses ridiculous hyperbole to try and discredit it.


I sincerely doubt that we have Andy Otten, who we recruited as a potential quality midfielder, playing purely as a shutdown defender - I'd be worried if that's the role we've identified as suitable for the guy who came second in the Rising Star as a rebounding, creative, attacking defending.

Do you think we're playing him purely as a shutdown defender?


The pre-season games hold value, sure, but they don't prove that he's been playing well - plenty of Clubs use the pre-season games to trial new things and try to get players back into form.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Do we want the attacking defesive Andy Otten of 2009? Of course we do but I suspect The 2012 Andy Otten has to fill a specific need in the defensive back 6 and is still learning that role.

I suspect he doesn't have the freedom to attack because Rielly and Doughty are doing that as half back flankers and if a 3rd tall does it as well, we will be exposed at the back.

When he played that role in 2009 he had a very different set of players around him. Macca, Goodwin, Bock and Rutten to name a few and he had that license. Now he doesn't and he is still learning the right way to play it.

He needs to play so he can get better at this role, 2009 Andy Otten played a very different role.

 

[PykeDream]

I suspect he doesn't have the freedom to attack because Rielly and Doughty are doing that as half back flankers and if a 3rd tall does it as well, we will be exposed at the back.

This is the problem I have, if it is indeed accurate. Why do we have a one paced 32 year old defender as an attacking half back flanker? His kicking isn't sublime and I'm not sure why he is earmarked for this position ahead of players like Otten. Doughty should be better suited as a small defender taking the best or second-best opposition small/medium forward.

Otten plays small, and expecting him to lockdown key talls does not make sense in my eyes.

I think long term we should have Jaensch and Otten as those flankers, with Jaensch occasionally playing a lock down role when a team has two effective small forwards. Hendo is probably a better option for the third tall if recent form is anything to go on.

 

[Paladin]

Burgoyne was on Vince and played on the wing, Tarlia and Rutten were swapping between Buddy and Hale and Otten was on Gunston for the majority of the game.



No need to get personal. Play the ball, not the man. But keep trying.



After 7 weeks says you're wrong. So, what you're saying is the coach is an idiot and doesn't know what he's talking about by keeping a player in the side who has shown no form the entire pre season?

Or you could just be wrong.

Why on earth would I want him dropped in the preseason? Good to see your being your normal clueless self and making stuff up. Talia mentioned on 5aa today that his 2 main opponents were buddy and gunston. Spose he is lying amirite?

 

[Paladin]

This is the problem I have, if it is indeed accurate. Why do we have a one paced 32 year old defender as an attacking half back flanker? His kicking isn't sublime and I'm not sure why he is earmarked for this position ahead of players like Otten. Doughty should be better suited as a small defender taking the best or second-best opposition small/medium forward.

Otten plays small, and expecting him to lockdown key talls does not make sense in my eyes.

I think long term we should have Jaensch and Otten as those flankers, with Jaensch occasionally playing a lock down role when a team has two effective small forwards. Hendo is probably a better option for the third tall if recent form is anything to go on.

It's not accurate I mean cmon. Doughty is doing a good job as a lockdown defender. We need Jaensch and hendo back there to give us some drive.

 

[CroCop]

Maybe because when we can get him isolated one on one, he will mark it 9.5 times out of 10? We have been a lot better this year going inside 50, and I don't think we were atrocious for the whole game yesterday in that regard. Hawthorn are also extremely good at zoning off down back, pin pointing passes to leading forwards isn't as easy as against a lot of other sides. This area has been good in the first two round and NAB Cup.

As I've repeated many times, it was just costly misses and skill errors at crucial times which robbed us of any momentum gained. That will get better as the team gels more; I have no idea what people were expecting yesterday judging by the reaction of this board.

maybe its cause Tippett never leads at the right time when the midfielders do raise their eyes.

 

[NTRabbit]

maybe its cause Tippett never leads at the right time when the midfielders do raise their eyes.

Clearly you don't watch any games, because Tippett leads for marks all the time. He takes quite a few leading marks on the arc and the half forward line, in some games due to double and triple teaming when deep those are the only marks he gets.

Make no mistake, Tippett is our best key forward, by a fair margin. He's not complete, but he's a hell of a lot closer to complete than any of the other competition on our list.

 

[srv23]

Clearly you don't watch any games, because Tippett leads for marks all the time. He takes quite a few leading marks on the arc and the half forward line, in some games due to double and triple teaming when deep those are the only marks he gets.

Make no mistake, Tippett is our best key forward, by a fair margin. He's not complete, but he's a hell of a lot closer to complete than any of the other competition on our list.

Of course he is - he's 24 years old (25 in 3 weeks) and has played 86 games.

His competition include Walker who is 21 (22 next month) and has played 48 games
and Lynch who is 21 and has played 9 games.

I wonder what Lynch and Walker will look like when they get to 24/25 years of age and around the 100 game mark.

 

[Truck Rutten]

So how about telling us what his exact role in the side is then?

Maybe with the inexperience in the back 6, it's changed. He has to play a very different role now. Maybe he has to play as a shit down defender as we have no other options available yet.

Plus, it's not just about stats

Freudian slip?

Not sure where you're coming from with the inexperience in the back 6 bit. It's the one area of the ground where we have an abundance of experience. 4 of the oldest 5 players on our senior list are playing through there.

I think you'll find Otten dropped this week. He's been given a few games but hasn't been able to improve on his patchy pre season form. He looks slow, uncertain, fumbly, is hardly getting hold of the ball and offering very little rebound. At the same time you've got Sam Shaw who can fill Andy's position, who had a really good pre season and has been in great form for the Tigers. I'll be very surprised if it doesn't happen this week.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

Haha, ffs. He said that Pets had 'attributes' that Rioli does, you could say that about most players having traits of a superior player of their type. It is amazing how much a quote degenerates after a while to something that suits the poster, classic BF. Rioli had plenty of quiet games early in his career too, but a few would have been glossed over because the media drool over anything he does, no matter how small. He also wasn't that much better than Petrenko on the weekend either. Malcolm wasn't smoking anything, but you certainly seem to be atm.

Rioli is a far better player than Petrenko will probably ever be, but that doesn't mean Pets can't have some of his attributes.

I agree - Pets has two arms and two legs - but they're the only attributes that are close to Rioli's.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

I haven't bothered reading much today as I cant be stuffed reading crap. We lost to a top 2 side on their own deck... Was it really a surprise? If we kicked like a normal AFL side we would of lost by 20 points....

But how can anyone with any football knowledge bag Tippett? He was very impressive. Yes, he missed some easy shots, but so does T.Cloke....Through him is the only way our club can become a genuine threat... When his kicking eventually clicks, he will be a top 3 forward in the league. Walker was worse than horrible. Pathetic. I am sure he will kick 5 vs GWS this week to keep his average up which so many BF people rate as the be all and end all.

Yep...Tippett was darn good....and it wasn't only his misses that killed us...VB, Vince, Truck, Walker (twice)....all missed very gettable set shots....(in fact 8 reasonably easy set shots were missed in all -not too often a side completely shanks set shots all day....and then we have Buddy barely getting the ball onto his boot at one point and it still wobbled through from outside 50!).

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Freudian slip?

Not sure where you're coming from with the inexperience in the back 6 bit. It's the one area of the ground where we have an abundance of experience. 4 of the oldest 5 players on our senior list are playing through there.

Age yes but playing as a collective unit no.

Developing an understanding takes time, understanding your role takes longer the 2 or 3 games.

Reilly and Doughty have come from the midfield, Tarlia has come from South Adelaide and I still stand form tat Otten has has his role changed from being an attacking defender to a more stay at home defender. and this will take time.

I think you'll find Otten dropped this week. He's been given a few games but hasn't been able to improve on his patchy pre season form. He looks slow, uncertain, fumbly, is hardly getting hold of the ball and offering very little rebound. At the same time you've got Sam Shaw who can fill Andy's position, who had a really good pre season and has been in great form for the Tigers. I'll be very surprised if it doesn't happen this week.

I was happy with how he played against the GC, he wasn't so good in how many possessions he gained against the WB and no one played well against the hawks so it's unfair to drop him because of what happened on Sunday. With or without him Sunday, the result doesn't change therefore I don't think he will get dropped after that one bad individual performance.

If you want him dropped because he isn't playing that attacking defenders role and amassing possessions, swaping him with Sam Shaw isn't the answer as he will play a very similar role to Daniel Tarlia.

 

[Mismatched]

I disagree with the notion that we should be resting players, we are 3 games into the season, with the players having a weeks rest before the season started. Our players need to go out and make a statement this week, although I must say there's a few boys who may need a trip to the SANFL.

For mine, I'd like to see:

B: Shaw ~ Rutten ~ Johncock
HB: Henderson ~ Talia ~ Reilly
C: Martin ~ Thompson ~ Mackay
HF: Wright ~ Tippett ~ Porplyzia
F: Lynch ~ Walker ~ Callinan
1R: Jacobs ~ Dangerfield ~ Sloane
I: Lyons, van Berlo, Smith
S: Doughty
E: Kerridge, Jaensch, Knights


Outs:
Vince - Such a frustrating player, on talent is probably our best midfielder, but just goes missing far too often. Thought he'd turned the corner in the NAB cup final, but he's just gotten progressively worse since. Needs some sort of a wake up call, not sure if dropping him is right, but Sunday's performance was just unacceptable from a senior player.
Otten - Not playing horribly, not amazingly either, but our defence is just too one paced and lacking in drive, would love to see what Shaw would offer playing in the role.
Kerridge - Probably wasn't first in line, just happened his team had the bye and hence he was traveling emergency, so last in first out and I think Lyons really deserves a shot.
Petrenko - I love the bloke and have been a massive supporter for a while, but just isnt offering enough and that soccer crap was just unacceptable, needs to work on his composure big time.

Ins:
Henderson(Jaensch) - Need his pace back and this would be a great game to build up some confidence. If not recovered then Jaensch comes in.
Shaw - Its time, I liked what he offered in the NAB cup and I think our one paced defence needs someone like him.
Lyons - Has been in awesome form in the SANFL and that needs to be rewarded.
Wright - Replaces Petrenko as that more defensive minded small forward, personally I think hes far better suited to the role, with Petrenko more of a half back/ midfielder type.

Close:
Knights: sounds like he's finding some decent touch at WWT, but I think one of the biggest issues he's had has been lack of continuity over the past couple of years and I think we could do more damage than good by bringing him back early. He's always been a player who takes a few games to get back to his best, so I'd love to see him really tear the SANFL apart like we all now he can.
Jaensch: Again tough to leave out such a dynamic player, I just feel that there's others in better form in the SANFL who deserve a shot first.

 

[JP Sauce]

I would like to see Sam Jacobs given a spell this week, gonna be a long season for him.

I'd be happy to see this actually. Give Jenkins or Smack a game in the ruck.

As you said, looooong season ahead for big Sauce.

 

[King Elvis]

Alex, if a back six of Rutten, Johncock, Doughty and Reilly is 'inexperienced' then we are in serious trouble.

I understand what you're saying about taking time to gel, but the only new one to those 4 is Reilly, and he's not exactly fresh to the side. Talia is doing quite well in his role, and I wouldn't call Otten inexperienced either.

And if we're playing Otten as a pure lock-down defender, and he isn't just woefully out of form, then I have serious concerns about the intelligence of our coaching staff. Taking a kid who was one of the best creative, rebounding defenders in the competition in his first full season, who we recruited to be a midfielder, and turning him into a shut-down defender?

That'd be flat out stupid.

I don't think Sando and Milburn are stupid, I just think Otten is hopelessly out of form.

Clearly you don't watch any games, because Tippett leads for marks all the time. He takes quite a few leading marks on the arc and the half forward line, in some games due to double and triple teaming when deep those are the only marks he gets.

Make no mistake, Tippett is our best key forward, by a fair margin. He's not complete, but he's a hell of a lot closer to complete than any of the other competition on our list.

Was thinking about this last night.

I went to the Crows game and the Saints/Dogs game over the weekend.

Tippett really, really reminded me of Riewoldt - they both work incredibly hard for the size they are, they constantly sprint up around the flanks and back again trying to get themselves in the game.

The amount of unrewarded work they do is huge.

Walker, I wonder if it's a symptom of him always being the main man who has had the footy on the string, but he doesn't seem to do much unrewarded running, at all. If he thinks he can get the footy, he'll lead to it, if he doesn't think he can, he'll point and ask for it to be kicked onto his head, if he starts leading and doesn't think he'll get it, he often eases up on the lead and doesn't make/hit the contest.

Fair observation, or not?

 

[macca23]

I think long term we should have Jaensch and Otten as those flankers, with Jaensch occasionally playing a lock down role when a team has two effective small forwards. Hendo is probably a better option for the third tall if recent form is anything to go on.

At this stage of his game, Jaensch has some excellent attributes, with his disposal being the highlight of those.

Unfortunately he is rather loose in defence and will get carved up by a quality small forward.

If he can concentrate on improving this aspect of his game, he could be a valuable member in defence with that beautiful disposal of his - but he's not there yet.

Shaw is the one that IMO should be in the side this week because he's in great form and looks like being a long term member of our defence - firstly as the 3rd tall and long term possibly CHB with Talia at FB - or at times the other way around.

Otten is only just going at the moment IMO and he'd be the one I would replace with Shaw. I still think Otten has a big future with us, but he's not at his best at the moment and needs to regain his top form and confidence in the Snaffle.

Hendo will hopefully be fit and if so should come straight back in given his good form to date before injury. He adds another dimension to the side with his height and pace in defence, wing or half forward.

Similarly I would give Brodie Martin another chance because of his pace and versatlity. He was originally chosen as a replacement for Dougie and should be given an opportunity to show what he can add in more attacking roles that can maximize the use of his pace.

Kerridge only got a game because he was the travelling emergency and didn't do anything that said I must stay in the side. Its just early days with him and he'll get plenty of chances later in the year.

So, for me it would be the 2 changes with

IN: Shaw, Henderson

OUT: Otten, Kerridge

 

[PykeDream]

At this stage of his game, Jaensch has some excellent attributes, with his disposal being the highlight of those.

Unfortunately he is rather loose in defence and will get carved up by a quality small forward.

If he can concentrate on improving this aspect of his game, he could be a valuable member in defence with that beautiful disposal of his - but he's not there yet.

I'm thinking this is the reason he's been in the SANFL so start the season, so hopefully he's spending time on this deficiency. He's still young, so you'd think there is plenty of opportunity to develop into a more defensive-minded player, in order to one day handle those small forwards.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Alex, if a back six of Rutten, Johncock, Doughty and Reilly is 'inexperienced' then we are in serious trouble.

I understand what you're saying about taking time to gel, but the only new one to those 4 is Reilly, and he's not exactly fresh to the side. Talia is doing quite well in his role, and I wouldn't call Otten inexperienced either.

Not inexperienced per say but inexperienced in playing together. Knowing each others playing habits and movements.

Other than Rutten and Johncock, the other 4 are playing new roles.

I wouldn't drop Otten. I'd be more prone to look at the midfield and view some of there performances in a much more negative light and that's where you will find your answers to our **** effort Sunday and by then getting an improved effort by Otten.

Some of our midfielder only go one way and this doesn't help the defenders.

 

[Team DJ]

Ask Port supporters how they are feeling about a coach, like you, who is fascinated by age.. It is a fine line..

the difference they did it with players who are in the top handful of player sta the club ie: Chadwick and DRod

We would be doing it with average players at best.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Tippett really, really reminded me of Riewoldt - they both work incredibly hard for the size they are, they constantly sprint up around the flanks and back again trying to get themselves in the game.

The amount of unrewarded work they do is huge.

Walker, I wonder if it's a symptom of him always being the main man who has had the footy on the string, but he doesn't seem to do much unrewarded running, at all. If he thinks he can get the footy, he'll lead to it, if he doesn't think he can, he'll point and ask for it to be kicked onto his head, if he starts leading and doesn't think he'll get it, he often eases up on the lead and doesn't make/hit the contest.

Fair observation, or not?

Quite possibly.

Leigh Matthews made an observation (not about Walker) that sometimes forwards lead to spots where they can get in the clear or where there is space. Not necessarily where the ball is likely to go.

Particularly if the kicker is under some pressure or being forced to run in a certain direction - they are limited in where they can kick the ball. I know sometimes Walker has leads ignored and ends up out of position as a result but sometimes I feel he is leading in spots where the kickers can't possibly hit him - outside their field of vision and/or away from their kicking range.

Now, defenders aren't silly. They will read the play and position themselves where the ball is most likely to go. There will be times where Walker needs to run straight to where the opposition ruckman or loose man has parked himself. Not because he's likely to get an easy mark there but because that is where the ball is likely to go.

 

[skoobydoo]

It is time to start injecting more physicality into defence without sacrificing run. Our midfield is starting to win contested ball at throw ups now it is the turn of our defence to step up a notch.

Agree......Our defence is gentlemanly, almost self conscious/ apologetic. Lets get a little bastardry/arrogance that make forwards adopt a second thought approach to the contest.


The trouble IMO with the Crows has been that for too long we have persisted with the same structures and personnel. Sando is changing those structures but now we need to start rewarded and promoting the youth who are putting their hand up in the SANFL.

Yep....We need to hold the right balance of experience and newbies, but nontheless we have heard plenty about how SANFL players are vying for selection....or is that just lip service?

 

[knobby]

I disagree with the notion that we should be resting players, we are 3 games into the season, with the players having a weeks rest before the season started. Our players need to go out and make a statement this week, although I must say there's a few boys who may need a trip to the SANFL.

For mine, I'd like to see:

B: Shaw ~ Rutten ~ Johncock
HB: Henderson ~ Talia ~ Reilly
C: Martin ~ Thompson ~ Mackay
HF: Wright ~ Tippett ~ Porplyzia
F: Lynch ~ Walker ~ Callinan
1R: Jacobs ~ Dangerfield ~ Sloane
I: Lyons, van Berlo, Smith
S: Doughty
E: Kerridge, Jaensch, Knights


Outs:
Vince - Such a frustrating player, on talent is probably our best midfielder, but just goes missing far too often. Thought he'd turned the corner in the NAB cup final, but he's just gotten progressively worse since. Needs some sort of a wake up call, not sure if dropping him is right, but Sunday's performance was just unacceptable from a senior player.

FFS
BOG - NAB Cup Final
R1- Probably in Best 8-10
R2 - Close to BOG - just pipped by Thommo (in fact you gave him 3 votes in POTY)

OK he was quiet on the weekend but he was no orphan there. I reckon he was being tagged as well, probably difficult to pick it up on TV, was anyone at the game who could verify ?? Smart tag by Hawthorn we have inside strength so block the outside runners.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

FFS
BOG - NAB Cup Final
R1- Probably in Best 8-10
R2 - Close to BOG - just pipped by Thommo (in fact you gave him 3 votes in POTY)

OK he was quiet on the weekend but he was no orphan there. I reckon he was being tagged as well, probably difficult to pick it up on TV, was anyone at the game who could verify ?? Smart tag by Hawthorn we have inside strength so block the outside runners.

Not sure if he was tagged. Looked just to be outworked and outclassed, as was a number of our players.

Agree with the sentiment of your post though. Dropping him would be silly.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

FFS, Tex doesn't just bully weaker sides. As a poster highlighted earlier, he has actually played just as well against the best as against the worst. At least put a little effort into a post before making such a wild opinion.

Baccs, Tex is a matchwinner, no doubt in the world...

But he has serious issues as a football player. That issue is presenting and getting to marking contests. He is playing Full forward as a half forward flanker. He is playing a key forward role like an opportunist forward. His goals are coming from crumbing. If you dont think there is an issue, that is your entitlement. But we do need someone at full forward who provides a contest and brings the ball down... Sure, dropping off the contest, occasionaly the ball will go over the pack and he will get a few easy goals. But too often his man is taking uncontested marks...