Preview Changes: R3 vs Gold Coast

[Big Dub]

Dropping senior players just to "make a statement" isn't a great idea, particularly if done over and over in a season. Having players looking over their shoulder encourages selfish football and creates a really toxic environment. Neither is great for developing young players or making them stay at the club long term.

How the whole team played last year wasn't how we want the Crows to play. Absolutely we should be demanding change, but we need to be realistic. It will take time. As long as playets are buying in to change and working on it, we shouldn't be looking to punish/ drop them just to placate fans.

We also need senior players out there to take the best forward/ defender/ mid so the kids aren't belted each week, because that doesn't develop kids either. They also need to be taught how to win, so we need enough senior players that we get some wins (and don't get belted). Yes, we got belted last week, but so did a lot of "good" teams that aren't trying to learn a new game plan.

I'd like to see Fog and Jones play pretty much every game. Get 10 or more games into 2 or 3 others (Ned and Hamill included, perhaps) and at least 5 games into 10ish other new players. But that still allows us to play senior players who have bought into the change and can protect the kids and show them what you need to make it in the AFL.

If senior players aren't buying into the change the coach will know soon enough, even if we can't see it. But 2 games, separated by 2 months, isn't long enough to make that call.

Let's just chill for a few of weeks, change does seem to be happening. The second half of the year should look better than the first.

 

[Mutineer]

Malcolm Blight had been a coaching advisor at Gold Coast from 2012 to 2015. By that he had played a rather significant role in what has been the greatest disaster the AFL has seen this decade with an absolutely stacked list talent wise (and with the AFL desperate for them to succeed due to wanting to break into that market) barely lasting 6 weeks in the top 8 throughout their existence.

In 2020, one of the last people you should be listening to with how to build a side is Malcolm Blight. Whilst a legend the game has passed him by, like it will do to everyone, eventually.

Pull the other one it's got bells on it!

 

[1970crow]

Dropping senior players just to "make a statement" isn't a great idea, particularly if done over and over in a season. Having players looking over their shoulder encourages selfish football and creates a really toxic environment. Neither is great for developing young players or making them stay at the club long term.

How the whole team played last year wasn't how we want the Crows to play. Absolutely we should be demanding change, but we need to be realistic. It will take time. As long as playets are buying in to change and working on it, we shouldn't be looking to punish/ drop them just to placate fans.

We also need senior players out there to take the best forward/ defender/ mid so the kids aren't belted each week, because that doesn't develop kids either. They also need to be taught how to win, so we need enough senior players that we get some wins (and don't get belted). Yes, we got belted last week, but so did a lot of "good" teams that aren't trying to learn a new game plan.

I'd like to see Fog and Jones play pretty much every game. Get 10 or more games into 2 or 3 others (Ned and Hamill included, perhaps) and at least 5 games into 10ish other new players. But that still allows us to play senior players who have bought into the change and can protect the kids and show them what you need to make it in the AFL.

If senior players aren't buying into the change the coach will know soon enough, even if we can't see it. But 2 games, separated by 2 months, isn't long enough to make that call.

Let's just chill for a few of weeks, change does seem to be happening. The second half of the year should look better than the first.

**** me

 

[Tex200]

We are getting it plenty in midfield though, the issue is so are our opponents.

?????

We have been comfortably beaten in clearances and contested ball in R1 and 2.

Getting hands on it first is clearly a problem. Blight was simply saying don’t accept that. Don’t plan to lose 1st possession. Plan to win it and if you don’t then cover from there.

I did agree with him and thought the messaging from Nicks was a bit off. He should have been on the front foot saying we needed to win more contests, not what we do when we don’t.

 

[hey shorty]

?????

We have been comfortably beaten in clearances and contested ball in R1 and 2.

Getting hands on it first is clearly a problem. Blight was simply saying don’t accept that. Don’t plan to lose 1st possession. Plan to win it and if you don’t then cover from there.

I did agree with him and thought the messaging from Nicks was a bit off. He should have been on the front foot saying we needed to win more contests, not what we do when we don’t.

When you have a poor tap ruck you need to plan for not winning it.

 

[Big Dub]

fu** me

Ok, a "little bit" ranty. But everyone calling for mass beheadings was giving me the shits.

Edit: this year (and probably the couple after) is about patience. There won't be simple or quick fixes

 

[Tex200]

When you have a poor tap ruck you need to plan for not winning it.

That’s a poor cop out.

 

[1970crow]

That’s a poor cop out.

Yep, you’re still working on a way to get the ball first.

 

[Tex200]

When you have a poor tap ruck you need to plan for not winning it.

With respect, you’ve completely contradicted yourself here.

Firstly you’re saying we winning plenty of it, then you’re saying we have to plan for not winning and blaming ROB.

Doesn’t make sense

 

[LC40]

The issue with Blight is that the game has changed dramatically since he coached. Even when he did, the sides he had in Geelong were all out attack and never won anything.

I get what he's saying, but the game in itself prioritises defence a great deal more than it did when he coached.

There's nothing wrong with that, defense wins championships but when is defense more important than goal kicking in the first half of the field.

In 2017 we ran the ball with speed and length through the corridor and yes we failed on the biggest day of the year but that doesn't mean you move away from that blue print after one bad day. We played attractive football we were excited to watch.
Those Geelong teams made final after final playing a great brand of attacking football.

Now I know I'll hear all the calls that the games changed and I'm talking game plans from a different era but that's bulls**t.
We weren't sacrificing attack in 2017.
We just had a different mindset and mix of players.
Sure we had a quick defensive Cameron who put pressure on defenders but he did kick goals (29 goals and a 103 effective tackles.)
In 2019 for Brisbane he kicked 57 goals for 49 tackles... I can see what Fagan values more from Cameron.
In hindsight we should have thrown the cheque book at a player like him we had under contract compared to chasing a soft player like Gibbs who cost us too much and added little upside at his age profile.

In 2018 Murphy kicked 12 goals for 41 tackles and 2019 kicked 19 and 68 tackles. It isn't enough production either in goals or tackles and right now we need an upgrade at this position if we are to climb the ladder.

In 2017 Betts chased hard and kicked 55 goals and had 80 effective tackles .
In 2018 he kicked 29 goals and 50 effective tackles, his age and production meant the right decision was made in releasing him.
McAdam or Stengle have big shoes to fill but we need production from this spot.

Jenkins as much maligned as he was did his job in 2017 and 2018. That pathetic Joe the Goose criticism was misplaced. Who cares how you kick them as long as we as a team were effective.
His age did dictate a younger opportunity was needed to be given to a Fogarty /Himmelberg/ McAsey.

Our midfielders do not kick enough goals to keep pressure on their opponents and their penetration through the midfield at present is slow and short.
It all points to playing safe, defensive and keeping possession but it slows the speed of the ball movement and plays into the hand of the opposition.
The run out of defense at the moment is non existent but chasing jumpers tends to do that.

So what do we do?

Blight is right we change our mindset and get on the front foot.
Weed out our non competitive players and get some youth and be prepared to play with speed and length.
This slow defensive football is crap.
We experiment with our rotations and be prepared to take greater chances.
The worst thing we can do is play safe football, it gives our forwards no chance if our forward line is swamped with defenders flooding back.
Make teams chase us instead of vice versa.
This has to be a learning period. Playing with grit, run and commitment and getting to the ball first is better than than sitting back and letting an opposition dictate the terms.
In the long run the team as a whole will benefit more by Blight's suggestion of playing an attacking style of football.
Damn the current trends, promote our youth and get the players mindset in the right frame for the coming years successes.

 

[Mutineer]

There's nothing wrong with that, defense wins championships but when is defense more important than goal kicking in the first half of the field.

In 2017 we ran the ball with speed and length through the corridor and yes we failed on the biggest day of the year but that doesn't mean you move away from that blue print after one bad day. We played attractive football we were excited to watch.
Those Geelong teams made final after final playing a great brand of attacking football.

Now I know I'll hear all the calls that the games changed and I'm talking game plans from a different era but that's bulls**t.
We weren't sacrificing attack in 2017.
We just had a different mindset and mix of players.
Sure we had a quick defensive Cameron who put pressure on defenders but he did kick goals (29 goals and a 103 effective tackles.)
In 2019 for Brisbane he kicked 57 goals for 49 tackles... I can see what Fagan values more from Cameron.
In hindsight we should have thrown the cheque book at a player like him we had under contract compared to chasing a soft player like Gibbs who cost us too much and added little upside at his age profile.

In 2018 Murphy kicked 12 goals for 41 tackles and 2019 kicked 19 and 68 tackles. It isn't enough production either in goals or tackles and right now we need an upgrade at this position if we are to climb the ladder.

In 2017 Betts chased hard and kicked 55 goals and had 80 effective tackles .
In 2018 he kicked 29 goals and 50 effective tackles, his age and production meant the right decision was made in releasing him.
McAdam or Stengle have big shoes to fill but we need production from this spot.

Jenkins as much maligned as he was did his job in 2017 and 2018. That pathetic Joe the Goose criticism was misplaced. Who cares how you kick them as long as we as a team were effective.
His age did dictate a younger opportunity was needed to be given to a Fogarty /Himmelberg/ McAsey.

Our midfielders do not kick enough goals to keep pressure on their opponents and their penetration through the midfield at present is slow and short.
It all points to playing safe, defensive and keeping possession but it slows the speed of the ball movement and plays into the hand of the opposition.
The run out of defense at the moment is non existent but chasing jumpers tends to do that.

So what do we do?

Blight is right we change our mindset and get on the front foot.
Weed out our non competitive players and get some youth and be prepared to play with speed and length.
This slow defensive football is crap.
We experiment with our rotations and be prepared to take greater chances.
The worst thing we can do is play safe football, it gives our forwards no chance if our forward line is swamped with defenders flooding back.
Make teams chase us instead of vice versa.
This has to be a learning period. Playing with grit, run and commitment and getting to the ball first is better than than sitting back and letting an opposition dictate the terms.
In the long run the team as a whole will benefit more by Blight's suggestion of playing an attacking style of football.
Damn the current trends, promote our youth and get the players mindset in the right frame for the coming years successes.

BANG ON!

 

[BunjiMac]

Dropping senior players just to "make a statement" isn't a great idea, particularly if done over and over in a season. Having players looking over their shoulder encourages selfish football and creates a really toxic environment. Neither is great for developing young players or making them stay at the club long term.

How the whole team played last year wasn't how we want the Crows to play. Absolutely we should be demanding change, but we need to be realistic. It will take time. As long as playets are buying in to change and working on it, we shouldn't be looking to punish/ drop them just to placate fans.

We also need senior players out there to take the best forward/ defender/ mid so the kids aren't belted each week, because that doesn't develop kids either. They also need to be taught how to win, so we need enough senior players that we get some wins (and don't get belted). Yes, we got belted last week, but so did a lot of "good" teams that aren't trying to learn a new game plan.

I'd like to see Fog and Jones play pretty much every game. Get 10 or more games into 2 or 3 others (Ned and Hamill included, perhaps) and at least 5 games into 10ish other new players. But that still allows us to play senior players who have bought into the change and can protect the kids and show them what you need to make it in the AFL.

If senior players aren't buying into the change the coach will know soon enough, even if we can't see it. But 2 games, separated by 2 months, isn't long enough to make that call.

Let's just chill for a few of weeks, change does seem to be happening. The second half of the year should look better than the first.

People are calling for senior players to be dropped because they are playing like crap and deserve to be.

The statement being made, is by the club by ignoring their form.

 

[maxlilly]

Great to see Hamill getting a game, good luck.
Bad luck for Milera.
It's going to be interesting to see how we go against a young, quick and enthusiastic team on Sunday.
I think a few of our senior players are going to be shown up again for speed.
Here is a perfect chance to change the attitude of playing injured senior players. Give Sloane ans Kelly a week off and give a youngster a go.
Maybe Poholke for Sloane ?

 

[BRL121]

People are calling for senior players to be dropped because they are playing like crap and deserve to be.

The statement being made, is by the club by ignoring their form.

This is naive. Effectively, after Covid, this would be axing players after one game. Even if done, this would result in a team of tyros with no experience and no protection, which would achieve nothing. The coaches have to consider far more than dropping a slew of out-of-form players. They need to consider the team as a whole and its associated goals.

One would say that the same logic could have been applied to the pathetic from of Hawthorn's senior players last week, but it wasn't. That was a statement by the Hawthorn club by ignoring their form.

The issue is not about dropping players after one game of bad form. On the other hand, a string of such games by our lot would indicate that we have team-wide attitude problems just like the previous two years: this is the real problem that must be addressed. What is wrong with our mentality and desire? Pyke was absolutely right to address this, but perhaps chose the wrong method. It has not gone away. To me, it's all on the players to fix their attitudes.

 

[Scorpus]

This is naive. Effectively, after Covid, this would be axing players after one game. Even if done, this would result in a team of tyros with no experience and no protection, which would achieve nothing. The coaches have to consider far more than dropping a slew of out-of-form players. They need to consider the team as a whole and its associated goals.

One would say that the same logic could have been applied to the pathetic from of Hawthorn's senior players last week, but it wasn't. That was a statement by the Hawthorn club by ignoring their form.

The issue is not about dropping players after one game of bad form. On the other hand, a string of such games by our lot would indicate that we have team-wide attitude problems just like the previous two years: this is the real problem that must be addressed. What is wrong with our mentality and desire? Pyke was absolutely right to address this, but perhaps chose the wrong method. It has not gone away. To me, it's all on the players to fix their attitudes.

It's not just one bad game though is it?

It's a pattern of systemic failures by key players over many years

 

[beartoo]

When you have a poor tap ruck you need to plan for not winning it.

Look at how Jacobs is going with GWS. He has decent mids and they win the ball from his taps. More than ours were doing when he rucked for us last year.

 

[hey shorty]

Look at how Jacobs is going with GWS. He has decent mids and they win the ball from his taps. More than ours were doing when he rucked for us last year.

Not helping them much mind you.

 

[BRL121]

It's not just one bad game though is it?

It's a pattern of systemic failures by key players over many years

Indeed, but that's the sort of larger problem that has to be addressed by sacking/trading players at the end of the year, as we have already started to do. I don't think the week-to-week selection processes can hope to handle this wider problem: I think they need to be more "normal" so the players know what is required from them on that smaller time scale.

 

[Scorpus]

Indeed, but that's the sort of larger problem that has to be addressed by sacking/trading players at the end of the year, as we have already started to do. I don't think the week-to-week selection processes can hope to handle this wider problem: I think they need to be more "normal" so the players know what is required from them on that smaller time scale.

It can be addressed at selection. Some players you drop and never play again. Others you make them work back through reserves matches.

The only reason you don't drop underperforming senior players is if you rate something other than performance

 

[BRL121]

Look at how Jacobs is going with GWS. He has decent mids and they win the ball from his taps. More than ours were doing when he rucked for us last year.

I only saw the last quarter, but he has definitely changed his tapping. There was nothing to the feet, and several well away from him, quite unlike what he was doing here.

 

[MRB37]

I guess one of Nicks things he talked about in the preseason was being able to generate scores from turnovers, which with our current defensive efforts doesn't happen at all. Our clearances were 31 to Ports 39 last week and contested ball was 119 to their 138, but it was our defensive unaccountability outside the contest that lead to us being smashed, Port had 91 uncontested marks to our 34 and 225 disposals to our 133.

I'm not sure saying focus on winning the ball more is the solution there, that is effort, workrate and defensive intensity not being there. I'm guessing Blights thinking is our plan to counter those uncontested numbers is to just try and shut everything down and not let the ball move at all, which I would agree is a terrible move to make. I read somewhere that in today's AFL 60% of scores are generated from turnovers, so if we can work hard defensively to create turnovers, we deny a score against us, then we can use that to generate our offence. I think we saw a bit of it in the pre-seasons games where everything is a bit looser and the defensive intensity isn't 100% there, so now we need to work through the list to find who has the stuff there to let us play like that.

A lot of that defensive intensity will be off ball, we saw more than a few lazy efforts last year (so I can understand why people are frustrated with the lack of players dropped this week) and that continued last week where guys just don't want to put the hard yards in early to keep with a man, who then gets free, gets uncontested possessions and then you get the stats you do above. That again goes back to that "unaccountable" culture Dunstall talked about, guys just want their stats and don't want to do the little things and hard running that wins you games.

 

[Mutineer]

It can be addressed at selection. Some players you drop and never play again. Others you make them work back through reserves matches.

The only reason you don't drop underperforming senior players is if you rate something other than performance

And when Reserves games aren't an option?

 

[Cockwomble]

Are you a Suns member? I was keen to go but only GC Members seemed to have access.

Wash your mouth out, Crows member

 

[beartoo]

There's nothing wrong with that, defense wins championships but when is defense more important than goal kicking in the first half of the field.
This has to be a learning period. Playing with grit, run and commitment and getting to the ball first is better than than sitting back and letting an opposition dictate the terms.
In the long run the team as a whole will benefit more by Blight's suggestion of playing an attacking style of football.
Damn the current trends, promote our youth and get the players mindset in the right frame for the coming years successes.

Good analysis in this long post I've truncated. GWS played safety first with defensive possession football characterised by short, safe kicks last evening and were soundly beaten by the Bullies. As you and Blighty say, we need to get on the front foot, but without throwing defence out the window.

 

[BRL121]

It can be addressed at selection. Some players you drop and never play again. Others you make them work back through reserves matches.

The only reason you don't drop underperforming senior players is if you rate something other than performance

If they fail to perform for an extended period, then drop them and make them earn it in the seconds, for sure. However, a mass dropping would not be a good idea for overall team balance. I'm not a fan of dropping someone "to never play again". They have been retained on contract, and should be required to perform. If they fail to perform in the seconds, then the effect will be the same, but the processes will not have been compromised. Every contracted player should be given the chance to earn an AFL position.