Changes Round 8 v Saints

[Miguel Sanchez]

We really need a “how much longer can Masten be debated” megathread

 

[squashface]

We really need a “how much longer can Masten be debated” megathread

Yeah but do we though?

 

[Obeanie1]

Hope Simmo just backs the boiz in.

Making changes is risky, can't be too careful.

Not sure if serious!

 

[Obeanie1]

I can rarely help myself but I’m really not keen on doing the Masten **** again tonight. This isn’t a knock on you, I’m not saying the below applies to you, I’m just so over the Masten stuff.

Every answer will always be wrong to a select group of people. I don’t care if he’s in the side or not, but this pinning issues on him or getting angry with him for not doing things that aren’t part of his role is infuriating. There’s no chance that he’d have played in 31 of our last 32 games if he wasn’t playing his role.

The career best output from Hurn and Jetta, from our dangerous users behind the ball, is aided by Masten. He’s defensive cover that happens to start on the wing. I think eventually they’ll bite the bullet and just name him in the back six, but until then I guess we’re stuck with this Masten chat. He’s not an accumulator, his job isn’t to rack up touches, his job isn’t to feed the forwards, he is defensive cover that links up along the back flank. He’s an exit option. There’s a reason that he’s found himself as the last line of defence on a minimum of ten occasions this season, and it’s not coincidence. I hope like hell they bring someone else in to replace him soon because I cannot be bothered reading this in every thread anymore.

Drop him, don’t drop him, I’m not bothered, but how would he be riding what has to be close to the longest consecutive games streak of his career if his job was to accumulate and feed the forwards? No AFL coach is going to back in a bloke whose output is so low unless they’re playing a role for which dream team stats aren’t actually that important.

I mean while we’re at it, he hasn’t had a hitout since 2013, what’s the point of him?

Is he the best player for that role?

Can someone else offer more?

Thats the question isnt it?

 

[Cuzz09]

And what do you do to get Petch, Ryan and Cripps to contribute? Carrying 3 blokes in one area of the ground is asking a lot.

Say please try

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[HoneyBadger35]

Is he the best player for that role?

Can someone else offer more?

Thats the question isnt it?

Yes, and it’s a very valid question.

But when people are posting wishing injuries on players, or sweating on every mistake to feel like the smartest bloke in the thread, that’s an issue. The big spike in “I told you so” posts every time someone gets within the frame of the action is so old.

It’s not their job to explain I know, but I’d love to see the MC just come out and address some of these roles for a little public clarity.

 

[Obeanie1]

Masten will not be dropped . At throw ins he sprints to the opposite side of the ground he is a running wingman that links up . West Coast are a kicking team and need gut runners to make the ground fat and suit our kicking game . If you attend a match and have an elevated view you may see his role . So many insular comments about Masten by people who dont have a clue .

Ok he has a role. Thats great, lots of players have roles.

How is he actually playing? What is acceptable production for that role?

Is he the best player for that role?

Can he play other roles?

Is that role helping the team improve?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

It’s not their job to explain I know, but I’d love to see the MC just come out and address some of these roles for a little public clarity.

The club isn’t too keen to go into specifics on Masten’s role, even with some of his most insightful and articulate critics

 

[porttoport]

That sounds more like wishful thinking than reality. Hard to recall a player being gifted more games (almost a full season now) without ever having a performance that showed he was up to AFL level.

Barely a performance at WAFL level


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[darksquare]

All these people dropping Allen for Waterman
a) are being very optimistic since Waterman’s missed two of the last three games with hammy issues - might be overly risky to fly him across the country
b) should say what their plan is for a backup ruckman, because that’s Allen’s main role at the moment and there’s no way Waterman takes that over

If Hickey’s back, I reckon Ah Chee could give him a good enough break with help from Gov and Darling. If we persist with Vardy, I’m not sure that’s enough help, so Oscar is likely to be needed.

Having said that, I don’t want Waterman for Allen. Hickey and Ah Chee for Vardy and Venables.


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[Keys]

Barely a performance at WAFL level


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I don’t have an issue with opposition supporters posting on this board but you’ve just about worn out your welcome.

Offer something more constructive than just potting Venables at every opportunity or **** off

 

[donpyke92]

Fond memories of Hurn's bump on Travis Boak invoked.

 

[West Coast 06]

The club isn’t too keen to go into specifics on Masten’s role, even with some of his most insightful and articulate critics

If these are supposed to be this weeks stats, why does the AFL match centre say 12 D and 58% DE? Are they plucking these numbers from their imagination?

Edit, has to be from last week, he didn’t kick a goal either. So he is getting worse

 

[Seadog]

If these are supposed to be this weeks stats, why does the AFL match centre say 12 D and 58% DE? Are they plucking these numbers from their imagination?

Edit, has to be from last week, he didn’t kick a goal either. So he is getting worse

Last weeks

 

[kaiserchief13]

Last weeks

Didn't WC play Geelong on Sunday?

 

[eagles rule]

Marsden

12 touches at 58%DE
2 contested
164 metres gained
1 tackle
2 turnovers
0 inside 50's

Also had a speccy taken on his head.

Inspiring stuff. Club legend

Ate too much cake , I reckon..


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[Zuma]

Vardy, vegetables
Hickey, ah choo !

 

[Imnotdeadyet]

Masten will not be dropped . At throw ins he sprints to the opposite side of the ground he is a running wingman that links up . West Coast are a kicking team and need gut runners to make the ground fat and suit our kicking game . If you attend a match and have an elevated view you may see his role . So many insular comments about Masten by people who dont have a clue .

Unless he gut runs 40m clear there is no point kicking to him, he cannot compete overhead and could not win a contested ball if it was was a black pudding at a vegan convention.
I understand he runs to fill space, if it was training you would have a witches hat doing the job.
I may not have a clue but I know a witches hat when I see one.

 

[swingdog]

Is there a reason Petch isn't being tried on a wing? Noticed he dropped back deep late in the game on Saturday and certainly has the pace.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Is there a reason Petch isn't being tried on a wing? Noticed he dropped back deep late in the game on Saturday and certainly has the pace.

Possibly down the track they may but at the moment he doesn’t find the ball enough.

 

[Obeanie1]

Unless he gut runs 40m clear there is no point kicking to him, he cannot compete overhead and could not win a contested ball if it was was a black pudding at a vegan convention.
I understand he runs to fill space, if it was training you would have a witches hat doing the job.
I may not have a clue but I know a witches hat when I see one.

Its a shame Watson injured his shoulder. The role people are describing Masten playing sounds perfect or Watson. Taller, faster, good reader of the play across half back, good overhead as an interceptor, can lay a tackle and run down an opponent. Playing defensively a kick behind play doesn't need elite endurance because you aren't running back and forth up and down the wing. People on here saying it is because of Masten's gut running that he plays that role is plain wrong. I'd be interested to see the total km per game he is running compared to previous years / roles.

Rothom is another. Super pace and kicks very well.

Playing loose defensively across half back and providing a switch option you should be getting 25+ possessions a week. Goddard played that role and as long as you don't kick sideways too much and attack that role is one of the most damaging roles there is.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Come on gaiz, during stoppages Marsden runs to "guard" the outer wing on his own.

It's very important not to let the outer wing off the chain like that.

Exiting the stoppage, our players see Marsden out on the wing in his own, aknowledge his good work, and then choose to bring the ball up the corridor instead.

 

[RookiePick]

Now let me preface this post by saying I am sick of all this shit hanging on Vardy. He hasn't been great but he has clearly been the player suffering the most at the hands of this putrid 3 tall setup we have going down forward as he is a fwd/ruck. Simpson as much as acknowledged this with his support of Vards in his presser.

Nic Naitanui played 10 games in 2009 and has played every game since when he has been available, sadly far too few matches. It's 2019. We have played a 2 ruck combination for a decade. Almost the entirety of our list has played the vast majority of their AFL matches with 2 rucks in the side. We went to a semi final in 2017 rucking Vardy and 35 year old Drew Petrie. We haven't got a Max Gawn or a Brodie Grundy who can ruck a whole game at a high level. Pick 2 damn rucks and sort out the forward set up. Our current selection policy is madness and is hamstringing us in 2 areas of the ground.

Out:
Oallen - Love the kid but he needs a spell with his impact waning and is actively harming the forward structure. He will get more games this year. Kennedy is looking sorer as the weeks pass.

In:
Hickey/Brooksby - Hickey gets the nod if he is fit otherwise Keegan comes in. Either of these fellas will take the lead ruck role.

I am really pissed off at the MC. They have really painted themselves into a corner with Venables and Petruccelle doesn't deserve to be dropped as much as I would like to see Mallen or Ah Chee get a run. If Nelson can hold his form for another week or two I wouldn't mind seeing him get a run in the Masten role - if nothing else to try and get a picture of life post-Masto.

Not sure on the Cole and Duggan hate. Both have been busting their balls down back trying to cover for the horrible turnovers we are making in the middle and at half forward.

 

[woosha24]

The club isn’t too keen to go into specifics on Masten’s role, even with some of his most insightful and articulate critics

As much as I would like to see Masten out of the team, I will at least applaud the WC social media team for sticking up for a player online. If stuff like this is allowed to generate negative answers then every player will be open to it eventually.

 

[Feeling Groovy]

I think some of the debate around Masten (and I should know better than to add to it) is the role he is being asked to play. This year, he is playing more defensively. The problem is, it has resulted in lower production for him and I am not sure what it is achieving that last year we weren't doing better with Masten playing more offensively.

If it is because of the 6,6,6 rule, at least partially, to get the ball into the hands of Hurn and Jetta etc, and Masten covers defensively, then it doesn't seem to be working as we aren't moving the ball on quickly up the ground and they aren't pulling the trigger often enough and we need to re-assess the role or how we are implementing it.

There is no doubt Masten gets into positions to guard space and to provide an outlet, albeit one that is rarely being used this year. I also don't think he has been terrible like others have said, his production is simply down and that is partly due to the role he is being asked to play. But I really question if it is a worthwhile role.

Personally, I want to see Mallen in the team and am unsure who to drop for this but Masten may be the most vulnerable of the mids in my view. But I am fine with him in the team as I think he is actually playing the role asked, I just think we could do with a bit more grunt. The bigger issues for me are the lack of Rioli (and Venables being given games when form doesn't deserve), the messing around with Sheed earlier in the year and trying to make Gaff an onballer instead of a winger (which we seemed to address this week), our Rucks (although playing only one seems to be a good idea) and playing too tall up forward. Masten's role may be an issue, but it isn't the biggest issue by any stretch.