Changes v Brisbane

[BrissyCrow]

In
Lever. We missed him last night big time.
Greenwood. Surely he gets his opportunity this week.

Out
Ottens. He is looking like a Henderson. Can play and has all the skills yet he finds a way to let himself down
Mackay. I haven't been bagging him like many others but now I feel the time has come. Pyke has given him ample opportunity.
I would like to drop Menzel as well but might be reluctant to move too many at one time unless the likes of Gallucci, Doedee or Poholke can do a similar job.

 

[marty36]

The funny thing is, Otten used to be a great intercept marker or at least someone that would come in and spoil it in a contest in his first season. Last night I dare say he was focused on Watts so didn't really do that. I do think it is harder to do that now with the speed the game is played, leaving your man is a huge risk as it really exposes you if you're unable to stop that contest.

Fair points on him not applying defensive pressure, not sure if it's less than Jenkins and I don't think we get much from either on that front. RE the North game, none of our forwards did. The ball didn't go forward in the first quarter really, no one scored. DT wise, Jenkins had just 10 points to HT, Otten was on 31. At some point in the 3rd (think towards the end) Otten was in the backline. So yeah, Otten as a forward didn't do shit against North but who did really?

Otten has been a superstar compared to JJ who played well in the first game of the season missed 4 then may aswell been playing A6 in the last three games

If JJ retains his spot those gold passes are certainly being handed out with ease ATM


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[marty36]

The players we have need to be given a rocket and pull their fingers out.

Greenwood will give us a hard edge.

If the game was just played at the clearances then fair enough, but it's not. His opponent will have a field day running off him.

Greenwood are you kidding he is lanky and moves across the ground well, he should come in but not as a tough nut

Imagine him up against Viney, Thommo was the only one capable of going head to head with him in our team


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[feenix67]

Greenwood are you kidding he is lanky and moves across the ground well, he should come in but not as a tough nut

Imagine him up against Viney, Thommo was the only one capable of going head to head with him in our team


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He doesnt squib like half our mids

 

[marty36]

He doesnt squib like half our mids

He might not but he won't out muscle anyone like Viney either, where Thommo could, unfortunately Thommo will struggle with pace what's the worse of the two evils

Sloane is getting smashed he needs someone to step in and sort this mid out the others will have to run harder to compensate for Thommo but none have the body or strength to help Sloane out we don't have anyone else that can do what Thommo does

Will be good to get Cheney back he's a solid nut aswell too much fancy pants in the team ATM




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[jackster83]

Could do a lot worse than bring in ROB. At least he'll crash some packs unlike Jenkins and Walker. He also tackles pretty well for a big man.

He's unfashionable but we need a few more soldiers and a few less seagulls.

 

[maxlilly]

I would like to see Greenwood, Wigg and Beech given a go

 

[huludicidal]

Not sure why everyone is ignoring the fact that Menzel got injured last night. He's not playing against Brisbane and is sadly the only 100% certain out from last night's debacle. Not sure he would've held his spot even without the injury, based on his horrid disposal and the fact that he was the 22nd player picked last night, but the injury renders that discussion pointless. He's out.

So we basically know that Menzel is out and Lever is in (assuming he's fit and we haven't been lied to again). This makes us too tall / slow (we already were without this change), so you'd think we'd probably pull the pin on Otten and replace him with Greenwood. Jenkins deserves to be dropped far more than Otten does, "but he's quick" so that won't happen. Quick to fall over. Quick to run to the wrong spots. Quick to not chase or tackle. Quick to lose one on ones against smaller bodied opponents. Genuinely quick.

Other than those changes, nothing is certain. Mackay's position in the side is completely untenable, but it's been clear for several seasons now that there is far more to his continual selection than actual on-field performance. I'm not even sure I can stomach watching the game if he gets picked this week. It's well beyond a joke. He isn't an AFL footballer's haemorrhoid.

Hampton is another who I personally can't justify keeping in the side. Not as an inside mid or a half back flanker. He's just not doing enough and sending him to a position that essentially put him on the scrap heap at GWS, and one that he hasn't practiced in or played at SANFL level since arriving here, is pure fantasy. It isn't happening. We might be able to hide him at half forward in Menzel's role, but not in defence.

Kelly is another who looks pretty shot. Not sure if he'll hold on for another week or not. Might depend on whether we are ready to throw Doedee in. Cheney is lurking but needs a couple of SANFL games.

Brad Crouch (dumb), Brown (panic merchant) and Cameron (not 100% fit) are the others who need to turn it around fast and could justifiably be dropped this week.

As for the potential ins other than Lever, Knight is a certainty IF 100% fit (I doubt he's fit so let's assume he's not). I'd then rank Greenwood as the most likely to come in, with Beech, Wigg, Thompson (*just vomited in own mouth), Doedee and Gallucci the only other genuine hopes against Brisbane.


Bare minimum for me is Menzel, Mackay and Hampton out, with Thommo not among the ins. I'd love a statement to be made by dropping Jenkins, but am resigned to it not happening.

If either of Mackay or Hampton play, the "elite standards" slogan should be replaced with "elite handjobs".

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Greenwood are you kidding he is lanky and moves across the ground well, he should come in but not as a tough nut

Imagine him up against Viney, Thommo was the only one capable of going head to head with him in our team


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Don't be fooled by how he looks , he's tough and competes and averages >6 tackles a game

 

[DD#23]

He might not but he won't out muscle anyone like Viney either, where Thommo could, unfortunately Thommo will struggle with pace what's the worse of the two evils

Sloane is getting smashed he needs someone to step in and sort this mid out the others will have to run harder to compensate for Thommo but none have the body or strength to help Sloane out we don't have anyone else that can do what Thommo does

Will be good to get Cheney back he's a solid nut aswell too much fancy pants in the team ATM

stick to what you know mate, Greenwood is big and tough and it doesn't sound like you've ever seen him play.

 

[marty36]

stick to what you know mate, Greenwood is big and tough and it doesn't sound like you've ever seen him play.

I actually go to the SANFL unlike most have seen him against the bays , I love him he deserves to come in and can't wait to see him in

But what I've seen he is no tough nut he runs hard tackles but doesn't have that strength about his game like Thommo

I actually want Greenwood in but not as a hard tough nut

Cheney and Thommo would help in that area unfortunately Cheney is injured and Thommo lacks pace but we need it in the team so we don't get out muscled and pushed around Sloane is feeling it without someone protecting him. We will have to accept Thommo short comings to not get smashed and pushed around like last night it's not ideal but it's the best we have


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[CEY Crow]

I actually go to the SANFL unlike most have seen him against the bays , I love him he deserves to come in and can't wait to see him in

But what I've seen he is no tough nut he runs hard tackles but doesn't have that strength about his game like Thommo

I actually want Greenwood in but not as a hard tough nut

Cheney and Thommo would help in that area unfortunately Cheney is injured and Thommo lacks pace but we need it in the team so we don't get out muscled and pushed around Sloane is feeling it without someone protecting him. We will have to accept Thommo short comings to not get smashed and pushed around like last night it's not ideal but it's the best we have


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We have been too slow and defensively unaccountable for the past two weeks and your solution is to bring back Thommo? I hope the selectors aren't thinking similarly, but judging by their track record of poor decision making it seems probable Thommo will be in within 2 weeks.

If Thommo and Mackay line up, I'm going to stop watching the Crows for the rest of the season...then hopefully we can trade Wright back from Carlton and get VB out of retirement and line them all up for round 1 next year. Then I'll be happy and proudly wear my Crows scarf around town.

 

[Bicks]

He doesnt squib like half our mids

Not sure what you mean by "squib" because none of R. Sloane, M. Crouch, B. Crouch, R. Douglas squib a contest. The only mid I've seen take the "easy" option is R. Atkins and can't say I've ever seen Hampton "shirk" a contest either. Milera a few times I've seen not go at the contest 100% but then at other times he's done OK?

 

[TexForPM]

Out Mackay Otten Hampton
In Greenwich poholke lever

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[marty36]

We have been too slow and defensively unaccountable for the past two weeks and your solution is to bring back Thommo? I hope the selectors aren't thinking similarly, but judging by their track record of poor decision making it seems probable Thommo will be in within 2 weeks.

If Thommo and Mackay line up, I'm going to stop watching the Crows for the rest of the season...then hopefully we can trade Wright back from Carlton and get VB out of retirement and line them all up for round 1 next year. Then I'll be happy and proudly wear my Crows scarf around town.

What you rather see us get out muscled? Because we simply aren't strong enough in the mid, not worried about Mackay he can go and should, him and Atkins are lightweights brad and matt don't play that type of game, Hampton is all show and no go

 

[Shaz2012]

Otten has been a superstar compared to JJ who played well in the first game of the season missed 4 then may aswell been playing A6 in the last three games

If JJ retains his spot those gold passes are certainly being handed out with ease ATM


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Both have been average the last 2 weeks. Otten did show a bit with a couple of good marks late, but then missed badly. One thing that is surprisingly good about JJ is that he is a pretty reliable shot for goal. That should never be under-estimated. I am not happy with how JJ is going, but he is the one that we should be playing into form as a forward.

At the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with Otten. He is just not fast enough to play forward and he is not as good as Lever, Hartigan or Talia to get a gig down back.

 

[marty36]

Out Mackay Otten Hampton
In Greenwich poholke lever

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How anyone can want to keep JJ in is beyond me, I don't care he is quicker than Otten, I wouldn't pick him or Usain Bolt as JJ is playing footy like Bolt ATM he can run a 100 metres in 9 seconds for all I care if he is playing like a hack it's pointless

 

[CharlieCrow]

Sauce need to start tapping to players other than Sloane.

Ridiculously predictable and basically ruins any chance of a centre clearance if Sloane being tagged.

That's just not true. Sauce was pinging them everywhere, including over his head, to try to get them away from the superior Melbourne pack.

 

[CEY Crow]

What you rather see us get out muscled? Because we simply aren't strong enough in the mid, not worried about Mackay he can go and should, him and Atkins are lightweights brad and matt don't play that type of game, Hampton is all show and no go

I agree we aren't strong enough in the middle. However that is secondary to our lack of defensive accountability and forward half pressure.

Was our midfield outmuscled by GWS round 1? No. And GWS have a superior midfield to Melbourne.

Midfield is not the biggest problem at the moment...teams waltzing the ball of our half forward flank and setting up counter attacking football that bypasses our zone and exposes our too tall structure is the problem. Thommo only exacerbates our lack of two way running and pressure.

Problem 1: Neither Tex nor JJ are real contested grab type players. So our long bombs are too easily intercepted...this is why we are missing Gov so much.
Solution: Otten to CHF - goes at every arial contest, smarter footballer than Jenkins. Jenkins out.

Problem 2: Neither Tex nor JJ apply any forward half pressure, and teaming them up in the F50 means we are too defensively unaccountable.
Solution: Drop Jenkins.

Problem 3: Hampton and Brad Crouch are not doing enough.
Solution: Patience - given their injury history, I think we have to back them in at least until the bye and re-assess. OR give Greenwood a go. OR sacrifice some of our other positions and play Charlie and Laird at 50% midfield minutes each - but that's robbing Peter to pay Paul (particularly with Laird). Both Laird and Charlie have the toughness to help Sloane.

Problem 4: A backline containing Talia, Hartigan, Lever and Kelly (or Otten) is too slow and lacks counter attack...Kelly and/or Otten must be replaced by Cheney ASAP.
Solution: Drop Kelly, replace with Cheney if fit, otherwise move Dougie to HBF...Hawthorn have moved good midfield players to HBF for years, why can't we?

 

[1970crow]

He might not but he won't out muscle anyone like Viney either, where Thommo could, unfortunately Thommo will struggle with pace what's the worse of the two evils

Sloane is getting smashed he needs someone to step in and sort this mid out the others will have to run harder to compensate for Thommo but none have the body or strength to help Sloane out we don't have anyone else that can do what Thommo does

Will be good to get Cheney back he's a solid nut aswell too much fancy pants in the team ATM




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Thommo's issue isn't just pace, it's also that he can't cover the ground to get to contests unless a stoppage has already been forced. He's not the solution to anything, especially when Greenwood and even Wigg are yet to debut. Thommo was good for 20 touches per game for the last 2/3's of 2016 from 80% TOG. He'd make us worse and delay developnent and us finding out if others have a future at all.

 

[marty36]

I agree we aren't strong enough in the middle. However that is secondary to our lack of defensive accountability and forward half pressure.

Was our midfield outmuscled by GWS round 1? No. And GWS have a superior midfield to Melbourne.

Midfield is not the biggest problem at the moment...teams waltzing the ball of our half forward flank and setting up counter attacking football that bypasses our zone and exposes our too tall structure is the problem. Thommo only exacerbates our lack of two way running and pressure.

Problem 1: Neither Tex nor JJ are real contested grab type players. So our long bombs are too easily intercepted...this is why we are missing Gov so much.
Solution: Otten to CHF - goes at every arial contest, smarter footballer than Jenkins. Jenkins out.

Problem 2: Neither Tex nor JJ apply any forward half pressure, and teaming them up in the F50 means we are too defensively unaccountable.
Solution: Drop Jenkins.

Problem 3: Hampton and Brad Crouch are not doing enough.
Solution: Patience - given their injury history, I think we have to back them in at least until the bye and re-assess. OR give Greenwood a go. OR sacrifice some of our other positions and play Charlie and Laird at 50% midfield minutes each - but that's robbing Peter to pay Paul (particularly with Laird). Both Laird and Charlie have the toughness to help Sloane.

Problem 4: A backline containing Talia, Hartigan, Lever and Kelly (or Otten) is too slow and lacks counter attack...Kelly and/or Otten must be replaced by Cheney ASAP.
Solution: Drop Kelly, replace with Cheney if fit, otherwise move Dougie to HBF...Hawthorn have moved good midfield players to HBF for years, why can't we?

Midfield was always going to be our problem and is our problem

It's probably because you don't agree with the fact Thommo is our only answer I am not saying he doesn't come with short comings but look at the short comings of Menzel Hampton Kelly Mackay and they are all in the team so can't see why you wouldn't drop them and bring in Thommo


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[marty36]

Thommo's issue isn't just pace, it's also that he can't cover the ground to get to contests unless a stoppage has already been forced. He's not the solution to anything, especially when Greenwood and even Wigg are yet to debut. Thommo was good for 20 touches per game for the last 2/3's of 2016 from 80% TOG. He'd make us worse and delay developnent and us finding out if others have a future at all.

He's the best solution we have to the fact we are a little soft I will not deny he isnt perfect but no one including Greenwood has the strength of Thommo and can go with the power players of the comp at the same time giving Sloane some room


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[CEY Crow]

Midfield was always going to be our problem and is our problem

It's probably because you don't agree with the fact Thommo is our only answer I am not saying he doesn't come with short comings but look at the short comings of Menzel Hampton Kelly Mackay and they are all in the team so can't see why you wouldn't drop them and bring in Thommo


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Picking Thommo is a backwards step - both long term and short term. I mean he was well below par for the last half of last season - what makes you think he will be better this season?

Why not try Greenwood instead? How's Poholke going? He looks big and physically well developed - is he ready for AFL? (I'm in Vic so don't get to see SANFL)

I agree and have been urging for Kelly to be dropped the entire season - but this move is unrelated to Thommo as it's HBF.

Menzel has shown about as much as Matthew Wright, but he should be backed in for 5 games - still HFF is not relevant to Thommo.

Hampton's defensive pressure is important, I would not be dropping him and I hope he will grow as the season progresses - with Sloane he is our only two way running midfielder.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I actually go to the SANFL unlike most have seen him against the bays , I love him he deserves to come in and can't wait to see him in

But what I've seen he is no tough nut he runs hard tackles but doesn't have that strength about his game like Thommo

I actually want Greenwood in but not as a hard tough nut

Cheney and Thommo would help in that area unfortunately Cheney is injured and Thommo lacks pace but we need it in the team so we don't get out muscled and pushed around Sloane is feeling it without someone protecting him. We will have to accept Thommo short comings to not get smashed and pushed around like last night it's not ideal but it's the best we have


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If Thommo is averaging 18 possessions a game in sanfl what is the point of picking him ?

 

[marty36]

If Thommo is averaging 18 possessions a game in sanfl what is the point of picking him ?

Because he ain't soft like the rest of the team, we were severely out muscled last night so you want to bring in Galluci or Doedee so they can bend us over further than we already are and maybe apply some Vas


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