Opinion Changes v giants

[trophies]

You’re a bit confusing here. Are you saying he hasn’t reached physical peak yet but should have or he has and he’s just not a good ruckman regardless?

We’d be absolutely foolish not to persevere with Tim. As i mentioned before, has all the attributes and will become a better stoppage ruckman along the way.

I think the inference is that he is not big and strong and aggressive enough to compete with typical opposition. Did you see him get monstered by Grundy a few weeks ago? Not big enough, not strong enough, not good enough.
St Kilda did it to him again last week. Jacobs is licking his lips for tonight and English must be extremely relieved that Mumford isn't going to be there as well.

I'm sure he's the nicest guy in the world and I like the way he takes a couple of marks in defence, but he will never be effective competition against the bang & crash monsters. Gawn, Natanui, Mumford, Martin and Grundy (and others) mean that our midfielders will start with a large disadvantage when English gets brushed aside, and if you lose the clearances consistently you only get to look forward to the draft.
English should be approaching his physical peak. I don't see that he has the equipment to be more than a barely adequate ruckman and I think we need to look further. Maybe he has a future in the forward line or as a 2nd ruck, but I don't think this will end well.

 

[Braybrook Son]

Jack Macrae - 2020

4 turnovers in total for 2020 and one against the Saints (in comparison for 2020 Bonti has had 10, Smith 7, Dunkley 5).

Macrae is ranked 6th for disposal efficiency and 1st for midfielders.

Macrae is ranked 8th for kicking efficiency and 2nd for midfielders behind Lipinski (minimum five kicks)

Macrae is ranked 5th for handball efficiency and 2nd for midfielders behind Hunter (minimum five handballs)

He has kicked a goal while Bonti and Smith have both kicked 0 and had 0 score assists.

The problem isn't Macrae it's where he is playing. He spent 49% of the game on the wing against the Saints compared to an average of 2% in 2019.

He started his career on the wing

 

[Dazb86]

The team makes more sense than last week. I would have liked Trengrove to come in and Lipinski to have kept his spot but it is what it is.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I think the inference is that he is not big and strong and aggressive enough to compete with typical opposition. Did you see him get monstered by Grundy a few weeks ago? Not big enough, not strong enough, not good enough.
St Kilda did it to him again last week. Jacobs is licking his lips for tonight and English must be extremely relieved that Mumford isn't going to be there as well.

I'm sure he's the nicest guy in the world and I like the way he takes a couple of marks in defence, but he will never be effective competition against the bang & crash monsters. Gawn, Natanui, Mumford, Martin and Grundy (and others) mean that our midfielders will start with a large disadvantage when English gets brushed aside, and if you lose the clearances consistently you only get to look forward to the draft.
English should be approaching his physical peak. I don't see that he has the equipment to be more than a barely adequate ruckman and I think we need to look further. Maybe he has a future in the forward line or as a 2nd ruck, but I don't think this will end well.

We seem to be going round in circles again. You’ve firstly stated that English should be strong and aggressive enough to compete with and not get beaten by established ruckman (using Grundy is a terrible example) but then suggest in your last paragraph that he’s not yet reached his peak. Which one is it? You’re confusing me.

English isn’t there yet. He’s not strong enough and he hasn’t mastered the ruck craft so he’s getting beaten most weeks.
He has all the attributes to become a good ruckman, but at only 23 years of age, just needs time.
It’s not rocket science. Rucks peak a lot later than any other players. Writing English off at 23 when it’s obvious that he is a while off physically, is foolish IMO.

 

[Bald]

Disagree

He is not up to it And if we were any good he wouldn’t be playing but I’m past caring this year so let him play

Bro, it's round 3.

God you can carry on..

 

[Yojimbo]

Bulldogs (Round 2, The Autopsy):

Bailey Smith: 19 x Effective, 65.5% DE, 79% TOG.
Josh Dunkley: 20 x Effective, 71.4% DE, 84% TOG.
Marcus Bontempelli: 15 x Effective, 62.5% DE, 91% TOG.
Patrick Lipinski: 17 x Effective, 77.3% DE, 69% TOG. (Dropped)
Jack Macrae: 16 x Effective, 88.9% DE, 86% TOG.
Hayden Crozier: 12 x Effective, 70.6% DE, 83% TOG.
Lin Jong: 14 x Effective, 82.4% DE, 73% TOG.
Matthew Suckling: 10 x Effective, 66.7% DE, 79% TOG.
Caleb Daniel: 13 x Effective, 86.7% DE, 85% TOG.
Jason Johannisen: 11 x Effective, 78.6% DE, 86% TOG.
Bailey Williams: 14 x Effective, 100.0% DE, 82% TOG.

Ed Richards: 9 x Effective, 64.3% DE, 72% TOG.
Mitch Wallis: 9 x Effective, 75.0% DE, 81% TOG.
Tim English: 5 x Effective, 41.7% DE, 85% TOG.
Josh Bruce: 7 x Effective, 63.6% DE, 87% TOG.
Aaron Naughton: 8 x Effective, 80.0% DE, 83% TOG.
Laitham Vandermeer: 5 x Effective, 50.0% DE, 72% TOG.
Alex Keath: 7 x Effective, 77.8% DE, 93% TOG.
Bailey Dale: 7 x Effective, 77.8% DE, 81% TOG.
Sam Lloyd: 2 x Effective, 28.6% DE, 78% TOG.
Billy Gowers: 5 x Effective, 83.8% DE, 69% TOG. (Dropped)
Ryan Gardner: 3 x Effective, 50.0% DE, 100% TOG. (Dropped)

Players listed in disposal order from most to least, just in case (Crayons) does not follow.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

The 69% TOG might be the key figure there for Lipinski. We struggled for energy and consistency through the middle of the ground and if he's not up to the necessary fitness level we can't really carry him.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Bulldogs (Round 2, The Autopsy):

Bailey Smith: 19 x Effective, 65.5% DE, 79% TOG.
Josh Dunkley: 20 x Effective, 71.4% DE, 84% TOG.
Marcus Bontempelli: 15 x Effective, 62.5% DE, 91% TOG.
Patrick Lipinski: 17 x Effective, 77.3% DE, 69% TOG. (Dropped)
Jack Macrae: 16 x Effective, 88.9% DE, 86% TOG.
Hayden Crozier: 12 x Effective, 70.6% DE, 83% TOG.
Lin Jong: 14 x Effective, 82.4% DE, 73% TOG.
Matthew Suckling: 10 x Effective, 66.7% DE, 79% TOG.
Caleb Daniel: 13 x Effective, 86.7% DE, 85% TOG.
Jason Johannisen: 11 x Effective, 78.6% DE, 86% TOG.
Bailey Williams: 14 x Effective, 100.0% DE, 82% TOG.

Ed Richards: 9 x Effective, 64.3% DE, 72% TOG.
Mitch Wallis: 9 x Effective, 75.0% DE, 81% TOG.
Tim English: 5 x Effective, 41.7% DE, 85% TOG.
Josh Bruce: 7 x Effective, 63.6% DE, 87% TOG.
Aaron Naughton: 8 x Effective, 80.0% DE, 83% TOG.
Laitham Vandermeer: 5 x Effective, 50.0% DE, 72% TOG.
Alex Keath: 7 x Effective, 77.8% DE, 93% TOG.
Bailey Dale: 7 x Effective, 77.8% DE, 81% TOG.
Sam Lloyd: 2 x Effective, 28.6% DE, 78% TOG.
Billy Gowers: 5 x Effective, 83.8% DE, 69% TOG. (Dropped)
Ryan Gardner: 3 x Effective, 50.0% DE, 100% TOG. (Dropped)

Players listed in disposal order from most to least, just in case (Crayons) does not follow.

Gardner had 100% time on ground?!

Ive never really looked at that stat before. Surely that’s abnormal.

Doubly abnormal when he’s your teams worst player.

 

[Yojimbo]

Gardner had 100% time on ground?!

Ive never really looked at that stat before. Surely that’s abnormal.

Doubly abnormal when he’s your teams worst player.

Pretty normal for the big lock down defenders to float between 90 and 100% TOG, not as aerobic a role.

 

[Yojimbo]

The 69% TOG might be the key figure there for Lipinski. We struggled for energy and consistency through the middle of the ground and if he's not up to the necessary fitness level we can't really carry him.

True Dannnnnnnnnn, with the covid situation it's hard to know where the players are at fitness wise, but he will not attain match
fitness not playing.

 

[footscray1973]

Given he was a midfielder for most of his junior career, maybe English, like Ayce before him, is just not a ruckman, and never will be.
Kid moves alright, maybe Bevo should try him in tandem with Sweet or Trengove, but playing predominantly forward. And to mix things up, every now and then, throw both English and the actual ruckman in at a centre bounce and see what happens. He gets monstered by other rucks, but will an oppo 185-190cm mid be able to out-body him?

 

[Mojorisin]

Jack Macrae - 2020

4 turnovers in total for 2020 and one against the Saints (in comparison for 2020 Bonti has had 10, Smith 7, Dunkley 5).

Macrae is ranked 6th for disposal efficiency and 1st for midfielders.

Macrae is ranked 8th for kicking efficiency and 2nd for midfielders behind Lipinski (minimum five kicks)

Macrae is ranked 5th for handball efficiency and 2nd for midfielders behind Hunter (minimum five handballs)

He has kicked a goal while Bonti and Smith have both kicked 0 and had 0 score assists.

The problem isn't Macrae it's where he is playing. He spent 49% of the game on the wing against the Saints compared to an average of 2% in 2019.

Not everyone can play on the inside though

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

True Dannnnnnnnnn, with the covid situation it's hard to know where the players are at fitness wise, but he will not attain match
fitness not playing.

Yeah, I mentioned this with my earlier post but the COVID situation puts these guys in a tricky position, and makes team selection difficult. We have to choose between letting these players build while compromising our performances, or opting for our best team with the knowledge that the omitted players may not find form this season at all. Neither of these are ideal, but I think we need to find a way to at least stem the bleeding with our performances.

 

[wian]

Happy the two spuds finally got dropped. They should never play AFL again.

Still perplexed as to why he doesn't bring either Trengrove or Sweet into help English? If he burns English out, he will crack the shits and take offers from the Perth based teams. (watch this space)

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Lets hope the bulldog cutouts are in the crowd this week not on the playing field where they have been in the first 2 rounds.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

True Dannnnnnnnnn, with the covid situation it's hard to know where the players are at fitness wise, but he will not attain match
fitness not playing.

Given the listless performance after the first qtr, it would suggest that they aren't in a great space fitness wise.

 

[Yojimbo]

Thank you, add blocker. This site is almost useable when you don't get a drop down every time you refresh.

 

[Yojimbo]

Another statistic, because I know you love them.

Bulldogs: Score Involvements Leader- Round 2, Patrick Lipinski x 7

Overall Leader: Matthew Suckling x 8

Are you saying he dropped the player with the most score involvements ? Yes I am seems odd as we don't score much.

 

[Proffessor]

Midfield got slaughtered and the ball was flying into their forward line with ease snd people want to lay blame at the feet of the new guy. Nobody would say it’s acceptable that he turned his back as a bloke walked by for an easy goal but there were plenty of experienced guys out there that showed zero fight. Those guys deserve to be questioned far more than Ryan. It’s not enough that’s he’s been omitted, people still want to kick him on his way out the door.


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I don't like it when posts critical of a player's performance or selection end up becoming personal, however I also think it is a bit too easy to either characterise reasonable criticisms as personal attacks, or to tar the majority of reasonable criticisms with the same brush as the few that go too far.

I think most of the posts critical of Gardner's selection, were just that, critical of him being selected.

People expressing their desire that he never be selected again perhaps crosses the line of becoming personal, but is probably exacerbated by the belief that his selections in Rounds 1 and 2 were not merited, and that future selections may be similarly lacking in both justification and outcome.

I have been critical of his selection because I do not think it was justified based on his performance. Let's face it his individual performances at AFL level have been extremely poor. Whilst you can put some of this down to nerves, it is important to remember that he is 23, has been in the AFL system since the 2015 draft, and hasn't set the world on fire at VFL level either. I was very surprised that he maintained his spot on the list for this season, remembering that similar but better performed players like Fletcher Roberts could not.

However, if he somehow puts together a large body of strong performance evidence at VFL level and another opportunity is created at senior level, for example through injury, then a future senior selection may even receive support amongst the fan base, although I would also expect any such selection to be accompanied with a large dose of anxiety.

Your suggestion that other player's performances should be questioned more than Ryan's is simply a deflection tactic. His omission is not because he has been made a scapegoat for the team's poor performance. His poor individual performance was clearly the issue.

There are very limited opportunities to play elite level professional sports such as AFL, and every performance is scrutinised.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Happy the two spuds finally got dropped. They should never play AFL again.

Still perplexed as to why he doesn't bring either Trengrove or Sweet into help English? If he burns English out, he will crack the shits and take offers from the Perth based teams. (watch this space)

The way he is going they wouldn't be offering much anyway

 

[DognBones]

The 69% TOG might be the key figure there for Lipinski. We struggled for energy and consistency through the middle of the ground and if he's not up to the necessary fitness level we can't really carry him.

And yet, in that 69% TOG he was still able to achieve 17 effective disposals. Perhaps he was a bit underdone on fitness but he still performed better than several others and I would have thought that gaining more match practice would be more beneficial than going back to dubious match simulations at training. Hopefully the match committee have a strong reason for his omission.

 

[Yojimbo]

There are very limited opportunities to play elite level professional sports such as AFL, and every performance is scrutinised.

So Proff, where is the Marcus Bontempelli has to cut down his clangers thread ?

 

[Virgin Dog]

The way he is going they wouldn't be offering much anyway

The Eagles would turn him into a deadset gun. There is no better club in the AFL at developing rucks. Lycett was outstanding in their flag year, moved to Port, and ended up being dropped by them. Hickey was bog average for the Saints, yet goes to West Coast and has been very good so far. Nathan Vardy was terrible for Geelong, yet was a perfectly capable ruck-forward in their flag side. Even Dean Cox was picked up as a rookie and became what I would consider the greatest ruckman of all time. At the very least, he has to be in everyone's top 3.

If English moved to the Eagles, I think we'd see a very different player to what we see now

 

[Yojimbo]

If English moved to the Eagles, I think we'd see a very different player to what we see now

Fremantle had Pick 8 and went with Griffin Logue, West Coast had Pick 13 and went with Daniel Venables neither of whom have
played as many games as Tim English, you would think if the West Australian clubs had a high regard for Tim English they may
have pounced on him like Melbourne pounced on Luke Jackson. The West Australian clubs certainly should have had a better
knowledge of Tim English being a local, but drafting is a bit hind sight in the end.

 

[Braybrook Son]

Bro, it's round 3.

God you can carry on..

Effectively round 5 with the shortened season, we lose this week, finals will be very tough