Fixture Changes VS Hawthorn Round 7

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doggiesin08

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Next year will be our 100th season in the V/AFL, along with North and Hawthorn. Unlike us and North who were the powerhouse clubs in the VFA for years before gaining admittance to the VFL, winning multiple flags each. Hawthorn played VFA finals just once in their 11 years, in 1923. They really only got in on the location and quality of their home ground at the time (Port Melbourne and Prahran were both favoured to be the 12 team - Footscray and North were both monties (montys?). Yet Hawks have certainly (especially in the past 50-odd years) had more sustained success than either us or North.

Does this game have a 'past player' cup name?

I'd suggest the George Bennet Cup, given he played 108 games with us and 92 with Hawthorn (in 2 stints before and after playing for us) through the 30s and 40s.

Or better still the Norm/Walter Ware Cup. Footscray legend Norm Ware (recruited from Sale) actually had an older brother Walter who started with Hawthorn a few years earlier. Good genes with the Wares - Norm lived to 92, and Walter to 87. (Walter actually died in Footscray.) Their VFL careers over-lapped from 1932 to 1934, but they only played against each other once (of 5 possible games):

  • Footscray and Hawthorn met once in 1932, Norm played, Walter didn't.
  • Footscray and Hawthorn met twice in 1933, first time at Glenferrie, Norm played and Walter didn't, second time at WO Walter played and Norm didn't!
  • Footscray and Hawthorn met twice again in 1934, first time at Glenferrie, Walter played and Norm didn't, second time at WO they finally took the field in the same game. Walter kicked 2 goals to Norm's one, but Footscray won 102-79. Walter played one more game the following week (last round of 1934), then left the VFL.
Interestingly, George Bennett played for Hawthorn in 1932-22 and swapped to Footscray starting from 1934. He played in the 1932 game against Norm but without Walter, neither of the Footscray v Hawthorn games in 1933, and both the 1934 games. He had a Ware as a club-mate for the first 11 seasons of his career (1930-40), then when he swapped back to Hawthorn in 1942 (having spent 1941 back at his original VFA club Camberwell), he played against Norm again twice in 1942, Norm missed the clash in 1943, and Bennet played in only 3 games in 44 (none against Foostcray).

Also Bob Ware, who played in our 1961 Grand Final side - against Hawthorn! - was the son of Walter and nephew of Norm (think he was actually either adopted or step-son of Walter), and is still with us at the age of 81. So he played for his uncle's former club in a GF against his father's former club.
(While Norm racked up 200 games - interrupted by war service - across 15 seasons, father and son Walter and Bob played an almost identical 63 and 65 games respectively - both having 5-year VFL careers.)
We’re also coming up the 20 year anniversary of Lochlan Veale deal between the clubs. That’s a name we could immortalise!
 

Bulldogs Legend

Norm Smith Medallist
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I read it just fine,

What he did 5 years against 18 year old's isn't relevant when he is yet to produce the same against men.

I can already tell West is your Sweet of 2023 and no matter how little he does you'll be pushing for his inclusion
Agree 💯 West is a long way off and his shortcomings are things that will lose us games the way footy is played today. He is fine at the contest but does not run hard enough when the ball is not in his vicinity. If we have players doing that against teams like the Pies we will lose. We need players who buy in to defence as much as offence
Nothing would please me more than for West to succeed but we cannot just gift him games
 

Bulldogs Legend

Norm Smith Medallist
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I clearly pointed out that I didn’t post it to suggest how good he is and that he should be playing AFL. It’s a good reminder of his skillset, ie he’s a midfielder, all his best attributes and strengths suit being a centre square midfielder. You could quite easily make the exact same cut of highlights from his VFL games against men over the past 4 years.

Whether he’s capable of doing similar at AFL level, I’m not sure, maybe not - but no one knows because he’s never actually had that opportunity. But personally I’d like to find out at some stage, because there’s no body else that comes close to replicating that skillset on this list currently, and it’s something we’re going to need in a big way when Libba winds down.

But you know that, you’re surely not that thick that you genuinely think I’d post that as some sort of reference to get him in the side, so obviously you’re taking the piss with your little smartass Collins reference. Or maybe you are that thick it’s hard to tell
It’s a nonsense to suggest he hasn’t had the opportunity. He has had enough time on the ground and in games to show what he can do. I’ve seen VFL games where he was unimpressive on the ball and had more impact when moved forward
 

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Bulldogs Legend

Norm Smith Medallist
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I like the idea of optimising for finals in the same season. Even by September, with a bunch of AFL exposure, I’d rather go into the 2023 finals (if we make them) with Keath rather than Buss.

If injuries didn’t occur then Bedendo vs Hannan would work the other way for me. Hannan probably had more to offer in Round 1 but I’d rather pick Dom because I think doing so increases our chance of success for the year.

On the West debate, I think most agree he’s not best 22. They just want him to play over McComb. Even if you think McComb is slightly ahead of him now (which I don’t) surely you accept West has a higher chance (even if still low) of contributing to a successful finals team than McComb. If McComb is in the squad for a finals series I just don’t see how we’re winning it.
The issue with your comments on West/McComb is that West is not playing a disciplined game.McComb has his limitations no doubt but he does what he is asked to do eg in the last qtr of the Lions game he was getting in the way of Harris Andrew’s allowing Marra and Naughts room.
Teams like the Pies are proving what good disciplined football across the whole ground and games can achieve
 

Bulldogs Legend

Norm Smith Medallist
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Makes sense.

Was always going to be Smith in, Libba out. Was just whether they trusted McLean to pick up Libba's midfield minutes despite his poor AFL form, although with excellent VFL form. They didn't and understandably so. I really felt that McLean should only play this year when one of the main four inside midfielders are out, don't think he offers enough in any other position at this stage, so its probably disappointing for him to miss out on this chance.

Happy that McNeil gets a full game. He's never going to be a star but has the chance to be a good role player as a pressure forward. I would guess that West will be the sub, don't see the point of McLean in that role and I'm not sure a tall makes sense in this lineup when we've got a lighter midfield.

Bont, Macrae and Treloar will spend the vast majority of time in the centre bounces. I do wonder who will get the other opportunities. Bailey Smith will get some for sure, Daniel got some in round 2 but otherwise hasn't been in there, I would like to see Weightman go in for a few as a bit of X factor.
I actually believe McNeil has a lot of upside
 

Bulldogs Legend

Norm Smith Medallist
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Which part is putrid? It's just about the strongest side we have selected all year bar maybe Another Key defender. Think you’re being a bit facetious. You'll win because you’re currently a better side not because we're "putrid".
Mate you are on a Bulldogs forum discussing the Dogs selection and you want to carry on with faux outrage. Can I respectfully say f..k off back to the poos and wees
 

Bulldogs Legend

Norm Smith Medallist
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Looking forward to seeing how McNeil goes. I've never been totally sold on him, but in my opinion his ground-level game is the strongest of any of our small forwards. Lots of opportunities go begging because nobody is at the fall of the ball in a marking contest but his positioning is consistently excellent. If he can find ways to get more involved than his standard 9 disposal 3 tackle games, he is a nice complement to what we have.
He has played some really good footy at times and is still young. If he had a famous surname everyone would be asking why he isn’t get more games
 

Bulldogs Legend

Norm Smith Medallist
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Yeah I don’t mind the Hawks. Based on success over recent decades they have done many things right as a football club. Supporters are not too bad either. Yeah there were a few knobs during their dynasty a few years ago, but to be expected…
I reckon they are a bunch of self entitled w***ers
 

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doggiesin08

Norm Smith Medallist
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The issue with your comments on West/McComb is that West is not playing a disciplined game.McComb has his limitations no doubt but he does what he is asked to do eg in the last qtr of the Lions game he was getting in the way of Harris Andrew’s allowing Marra and Naughts room.
Teams like the Pies are proving what good disciplined football across the whole ground and games can achieve
I get that. My comment is I assign a greater probability to West becoming disciplined and playing his role by September than I do to McComb learning how to hit a target and stick a tackle. I don’t assign a high probability to either but it’s a relative game.

I also accept as a fan viewing the game on a screen it’s more difficult to observe the consequences of a forward half player not being structurally accountable than another player turning the ball over.
 

Bulldogs Legend

Norm Smith Medallist
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I get that. My comment is I assign a greater probability to West becoming disciplined and playing his role by September than I do to McComb learning how to hit a target and stick a tackle. I don’t assign a high probability to either but it’s a relative game.

I also accept as a fan viewing the game on a screen it’s more difficult to observe the consequences of a forward half player not being structurally accountable than another player turning the ball over.
west has had plenty of time to iron out his flaws he can do that in the VFL
 

doggies ftw

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It’s a nonsense to suggest he hasn’t had the opportunity. He has had enough time on the ground and in games to show what he can do. I’ve seen VFL games where he was unimpressive on the ball and had more impact when moved forward
Which games? Shouldn’t be hard to remember considering how adamant you are
 

hatescaptcha

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Aug 15, 2009
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Looks as though McLean may be sub? Can’t see him out there for footscray.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

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