Changes vs Port Adelaide

[Mismatched]

Despite the poor form, Griffin should come in for Sellar. Griffin can at least match it in size and tap work. We got smashed out of the middle against the Power and nearly all Ports wins have been on the back of dominating the centre clearances. Neither Sellar or Griffin will offer us anything around the ground.

6 hit outs against the PAPs last time suggests he can't, Sellar at least has the body size to compete at contests around the ground. Also Sellar, despite not having massive possession counts has shown a willingness, that Griffin lacks, to compete and use his body in contests, which will be key against the PAP rucks. At 200cm (Brogan) and 199cm (Lade) neither Lade nor Brogan are particularly tall, so shouldn't trouble Maric or Sellar too much in terms of height, but with them both being quite physical and not particularly athletic, like last time, they'd likely throw Griffin around like a rag doll. No, IMO Griffin needs to earn his spot in the side.

Also worth noting, to put our rucks' apparent abysmal performance on the weekend into perspective(when we still marginally won the hit-outs and effective hitouts, with little seperating the team's ruckman around the ground), against the PAPs, Tippett and Griffin managed 8 and 6 hit-outs respectively, as opposed to 27 from Brogan and 15 from Lade.

 

[Glenno23]

Shirley and VB to return this week

But Edwards and Mackay won't play

 

[amer]

Worst case scenario would be Edwards, Mackay, Dangerfield and Porplyzia out - a lot of quality to cover. Sincerely hope we can keep it to Edwards and D-Mac.

What are we thinking then re: potential debutants? My gut feel is no more than one. Probably Armstrong.

 

[Wood_Duck]

6 hit outs against the PAPs last time suggests he can't, Sellar at least has the body size to compete at contests around the ground. Also Sellar, despite not having massive possession counts has shown a willingness, that Griffin lacks, to compete and use his body in contests, which will be key against the PAP rucks. At 200cm (Brogan) and 199cm (Lade) neither Lade nor Brogan are particularly tall, so shouldn't trouble Maric or Sellar too much in terms of height, but with them both being quite physical and not particularly athletic, like last time, they'd likely throw Griffin around like a rag doll. No, IMO Griffin needs to earn his spot in the side.

Also worth noting, to put our rucks' apparent abysmal performance on the weekend into perspective(when we still marginally won the hit-outs and effective hitouts, with little seperating the team's ruckman around the ground), against the PAPs, Tippett and Griffin managed 8 and 6 hit-outs respectively, as opposed to 27 from Brogan and 15 from Lade.

I dont think it really matters who we play in the ruck. We just need to plan around losing most of the ruck contests. Seriously as long as our rucks compete we do not have to win taps to win clearances. Obviously not having Tyson in there is a major issue. He is the master at winning the ball from lost taps.

I think we are stuck with Sellar for another week.

Interestingly Geelong are trying to play with one Ruck these days and topping up with Hawkins and Taylor. Geez I wish McKernan was fit.

 

[smoovy]

Come back Brad Moran, all is forgiven!

 

[frednerk33]

Can't help but laugh at those people who are suggesting that Walker hasn't done enough to warrant AFL selection. Burton only played one good game (out of two) before he got a recall. Walker can't play as bad as the Birdman did today.

Laughing right back at you. Walker can and did play worse for a couple of games before he was dropped. You're allowed to raise them flappy things over your eyes if you like.

 

[frednerk33]

Come back Brad Moran, all is forgiven!

Knee ?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I dont think it really matters who we play in the ruck. We just need to plan around losing most of the ruck contests. Seriously as long as our rucks compete we do not have to win taps to win clearances. Obviously not having Tyson in there is a major issue. He is the master at winning the ball from lost taps.

I think we are stuck with Sellar for another week.

Interestingly Geelong are trying to play with one Ruck these days and topping up with Hawkins and Taylor. Geez I wish McKernan was fit.

I get confused .......Sellar wasn't the worse player ...in fact he directed some wonderful palms to our midfielders which is more than what Maric did.

And why is McKernan the great white hope all of a sudden ......I assume its based around that wonderful term called "HOPE"

 

[Wood_Duck]

And why is McKernan the great white hope all of a sudden ......I assume its based around that wonderful term called "HOPE"

Absolutely its HOPE. Was just making a comparison with what Geelong are trying at the moment with some smaller, big blokes in the ruck. If a ruckman is going to get smashed at stoppages he must be able to contribute around the ground. I'd like to see Mckernan in that role. Not necessarily to get smashed in the ruck contest but to do some real damage around the ground. cant see any of our other rucks doing it.

 

[Dandy_GO]

in fact he directed some wonderful palms to our midfielders which is more than what Maric did

No it isn't. Maric put on a clinic in the first 15 minutes of the game. A few of his taps in the first quarter were Matthew Clarke-esque! Went right down Scott Thompson's throat.

I'm not saying he had a good game - he was as poor as everyone else after quarter time - but he was the dominant ruckman on the ground in the first quarter, and his tap work was the best it's been all year.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I get confused .......Sellar wasn't the worse player ...in fact he directed some wonderful palms to our midfielders which is more than what Maric did.

And why is McKernan the great white hope all of a sudden ......I assume its based around that wonderful term called "HOPE"

All of our young ruckman have all played less than 2 years of AFL football. Besides the top 5 draft pick ruckman, I cant think of too many young ruckman who have dominated in their first 2 years of football.

 

[Crows Feet]

Laughing right back at you. Walker can and did play worse for a couple of games before he was dropped. You're allowed to raise them flappy things over your eyes if you like.

Hard to "play" poorly when the coach won't let you off the bench. Walker's best games were those he had the most game time in. He received closer attention once he was nominated for the RS and Craigy lost faith too quickly IMO.

Don't think anyone will suggest that Burton wasn't picked based on name rather than game.

 

[Crows Feet]

All of our young ruckman have all played less than 2 years of AFL football. Besides the top 5 draft pick ruckman, I cant think of too many young ruckman who have dominated in their first 2 years of football.

Freo have Sandilands, the Eagles have Cox. Surely this is proof enough that a great ruckman is not the answer to all of our woes. Likewise, Geelong are experimenting with the TommoHawk in the ruck... is Sellar a worse ruckman than he is?

All I'm saying is that perhaps our midfield needs to take more responsibility.

 

[smoovy]

Knee ?

I said at the time he was a massive loss, but there were still some who thought he was a spud. I bet they have changed their tune now.

 

[Mismatched]

Hard to "play" poorly when the coach won't let you off the bench. Walker's best games were those he had the most game time in. He received closer attention once he was nominated for the RS and Craigy lost faith too quickly IMO.

Don't think anyone will suggest that Burton wasn't picked based on name rather than game.

Two possessions in over 50% game time is poor any way you look at it, just look at how Sellar was maligned (perhaps fairly) in his first game after 3 possessions in 33% game time. IIRC not once did Walker's game time drop below 50%, and rarely did it drop below 60%. In his two best games, the Bulldogs and the Hawks, Walker looked on right from the get go and Craig let him run with it, similar in the Essendon game, in the third quarter Walker kicks a couple of goals and Craigy basically gave him the forward 50 to himself and said do your worst. If Walker was looking the goods he was given the chance, unfortunately, as we've seen in his two games back in the SANFL as well as at AFL level, he has the ability to go missing for long periods when the chips don't fall his way, as such if he wasn't finding the ball he was replaced with someone who could.

I don't doubt that his reduced game time may have contributed to his diminished performance, but I also feel that a reduction in form has also played a major part in his receiving less game time. Now whilst I would like to see Walker back in the side, I think we could use his goal kicking ability and exquisite skills, I can also see and understand why Craigy has sent him back to the SANFL. He needs to work on finding the ball when it isn't being delivered on a silver platter and by the sounds Norwood is perhaps the best place to learn this.

 

[King Elvis]

Freo have Sandilands, the Eagles have Cox. Surely this is proof enough that a great ruckman is not the answer to all of our woes. Likewise, Geelong are experimenting with the TommoHawk in the ruck... is Sellar a worse ruckman than he is?

All I'm saying is that perhaps our midfield needs to take more responsibility.

Tommohawk is in the side as a forward, who can pinch hit in the ruck.

Sellar is in the side as a ruck.

 

[Mismatched]

I dont think it really matters who we play in the ruck. We just need to plan around losing most of the ruck contests. Seriously as long as our rucks compete we do not have to win taps to win clearances. Obviously not having Tyson in there is a major issue. He is the master at winning the ball from lost taps.

I think we are stuck with Sellar for another week.

Interestingly Geelong are trying to play with one Ruck these days and topping up with Hawkins and Taylor. Geez I wish McKernan was fit.

Agree totally and I feel that since the Port game our rucks have not really ever been "beaten", to me there just seems to have become a popular past time to dig into our ruckman just for the sake of it.

As for your second point, this is no different to us using Tippett as a second ruck, what it does is effectively limit the amount of time a KPP can actually devote to being a KPP, seeing as Maric is probably only capable of rucking 60-70% of the match, this means that our second ruck has to spend 30-40% of his time as a ruckman, which means, as rucking is quite often more tiring than sitting up forward, he must spend more time on the bench, 20% at the very least, more likely 25-30%, so he effectively ends up with 40-50% tops in his primary position. I think at the end of the day, having two dedicated rucks, with perhaps one who can spend a portion of his time effectively as a relief KPF whilst your dedicated KPF's have a rest on the bench, is the way to go. This of course changes if you have a ruckman of Dean Cox type quality who can ruck 80-90% of the game quite easily, then by all means use a KPP as a ruck for that extra 10-20% game time.

 

[Crow-mo]

Worth mentioning IMO is that Truck struggled very much against Kosi, that was a horrible matchup, but then again about the only player he could've taken out there was McEvoy.

why mentioned what happened in a dream? we're not psychotherapists

 

[Crow-mo]

Laughing right back at you. Walker can and did play worse for a couple of games before he was dropped. You're allowed to raise them flappy things over your eyes if you like.

you know you can post different opinions in different threads. you keep typing this all over the place, and frankly if it were even true it still wouldn't be appropriate.

 

[relapse]

Looks like Shirley has become an immediate first 22 selection again despite not even putting in a good game this year. ROFL if Martin gets dropped for "elite" Shirley coming back

 

[relapse]

Two possessions in over 50% game time is poor any way you look at it, just look at how Sellar was maligned (perhaps fairly) in his first game after 3 possessions in 33% game time. IIRC not once did Walker's game time drop below 50%, and rarely did it drop below 60%. In his two best games, the Bulldogs and the Hawks, Walker looked on right from the get go and Craig let him run with it, similar in the Essendon game, in the third quarter Walker kicks a couple of goals and Craigy basically gave him the forward 50 to himself and said do your worst. If Walker was looking the goods he was given the chance, unfortunately, as we've seen in his two games back in the SANFL as well as at AFL level, he has the ability to go missing for long periods when the chips don't fall his way, as such if he wasn't finding the ball he was replaced with someone who could.

I don't doubt that his reduced game time may have contributed to his diminished performance, but I also feel that a reduction in form has also played a major part in his receiving less game time. Now whilst I would like to see Walker back in the side, I think we could use his goal kicking ability and exquisite skills, I can also see and understand why Craigy has sent him back to the SANFL. He needs to work on finding the ball when it isn't being delivered on a silver platter and by the sounds Norwood is perhaps the best place to learn this.

Forwards do go missing during games, they were talking up Buddy's performance in Tassie yet he kicked all of his goals in the last quarter. We had a guy at full forward who played every week who would always go missing for periods during the game who is now at the Bullies. Playing forward is the toughest spot on the park and Walker has shown more than Tippett did last year, but have a look at Tippett this year. Persistence will eventually be rewarded, Walker needs to learn the craft not sit in the back so Burton can be rushed back from a knee injury because Craigy is having destination disease mode kick in and expecting a dry well to get the side over the line in September.

At the end of the day as I have said before we are wasting our time keeping people in the SANFL so that we can bring in guys like Burton and Shirley and playing them every week, we were shown how clearly we are off the pace of Geelong and St Kilda. We need to continue building our side rather than stalling it chasing an impossible dream come September and walking away disappointed again.

 

[Coopers]

Looks like Shirley has become an immediate first 22 selection again despite not even putting in a good game this year. ROFL if Martin gets dropped for "elite" Shirley coming back

Newsflash - shirley is a tagger. So when he plays a good game, it means he is limiting the influence of the other team's midfield, rather than racking up the stats.

You might have noticed that's exactly the sort of thing we could have used vs the saints.

 

[WALL-e]

Taggers are a burden against a zone. When we have the ball should he just stand next to his man in he zone, no, so he runs for space, there's a TO and he can't find his man. It requires team defense. Shirls probably would have helped in that instance though, he has fair endurance and good dicipline which means he'd get into position quick, but his mindset would hinder us against a zone team.

Port are different. Maybe you put him on soft Pierce who seems to be a berometre of their effort, discourage him early and he won't do much.

That said, if Martin is dropped, that's a little hasty.

 

[relapse]

Newsflash - shirley is a tagger. So when he plays a good game, it means he is limiting the influence of the other team's midfield, rather than racking up the stats.

You might have noticed that's exactly the sort of thing we could have used vs the saints.

Newsflash the nullify the opposition and do nothing in return era of taggers is finished.

St Kilda had 9 players get over 27 posessions, Shirley playing would have not changed anything. It would have stopped Martin playing who actually attacked the game offensively and did really well so I would argue that by Shirley being out it actually helped us more than hindered us.

Craig said publicly at the start of the year that Shirley had to find a new facet offensively to his game and he is yet to do this. Looks like Craigy has changed his tune because we are getting near to September.

 

[crowman86]

Shirley had been showing more of an attacking side to his game from my memory. Quick release handballs to guys running past, winning balls from clerances and getting it going our way. He even kicked a goal against Freo! People need to stop the same old 'Shiley isn't attacking enough' line. It comes back to the old type it enough times and people will start to believe it.

Was very impressed with Martin on debut, great first game. Would be a bit harsh to drop him but almost comes to back to last in first out. We need Shirls this week against Port. Bigger body around the stoppages is vital in a game that is going to be extremely physical. He can also stop Pearce. Stop him and you stop Port.

I also thing Danger really needs to be played through the middle much more than what he currently is. We were getting smashed around stoppages all day yet we didn't play our best inside player after Thompson in the guts... he was wasting away down forward. Thompson had 5 first possies and Danger was second for the crows with 3.
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