List Mgmt. Drawing Parallels and our Key Forward Conundrum

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As I was sitting on the toilet, pondering life's great mysteries, my thoughts started to shift toward our current list and its needs.

In 2016, we pulled off three of probably the most important trades of our clubs recent history.
Dion Prestia, Josh Caddy and Toby Nankervis, all three premiership players, the latter, a current co-captain.
Each of these players filled a significant list need at the time.
Prestia being the high quality contested extractor.
Caddy being the inside bull that wasn't a prolific ball winner, but his presence in the contest helped enable the ones around him. Who also had the ability to play as a medium sized CHF.
Nankervis, the no nonsense ruckman with the heart of a lion, who hits like a truck.

We are now six years later, and when I think about our two pending arrivals being Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper, I can't help but draw some parallels to our 2016 off season.
Taranto the high quality midfielder who runs hard defensively and can be a danger in the forward line.
Hopper being another inside bull that will likely be our next extractor who will work in tandem with Prestia whilst also taking some reliance off of him.

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this, but it's no grand revelation to say that we need a developing key forward who will eventually replace Jack Riewoldt.
The brilliance of the Nankervis trade was that we identified a player that was starved of opportunity at another club due to being third in line through no fault of their own.
Nankervis cost us essentially nothing and was probably our best trade.

So, who is a talented key position forward that is currently starved of opportunity that may turn out to be a very good player if afforded the opportunity?
I wouldn't be surprised if not many of you would be aware of this player, but coincidentally, they are also at the Sydney Swans and has only been given a handful of opportunities... Sound familiar?
The player I am referring to is Joel Amartey.
He is currently 23 years of age, standing at a height of 197cm and looked a very likely type when he broke into the Swans line up earlier this year.
He may be the long term Buddy replacement, but would be the perfect counterpart to Tom Lynch.
I am not sure what his trade value would be, but I think he would be relatively cheap salary wise and would likely attract a high second rounder.

It would be a very shrewd move and I'm hoping to get the discussion started and to will this into existence.
 
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Were you sitting for #1 or #2?

We would be unlikely to have any thing to trade for him without losing players I’d imagine? Can’t trade futures once the first goes and our first 3 picks likely gone along with having already traded this years third.

Can he play pure KPF or is he a fwd/ruck ala Miller?
 
Surely it’s Harry McKay, just to * with Carlton.

Jack and Trent retire next year, Dusty off the books year after, Lynch year after that. Bolton re-signs over summer, TT and Hopper signed up for 750k forever so no huge increase there.
 

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Were you sitting for #1 or #2?

We would be unlikely to have any thing to trade for him without losing players I’d imagine? Can’t trade futures once the first goes and our first 3 picks likely gone along with having already traded this years third.

Can he play pure KPF or is he a fwd/ruck ala Miller?
Number two of course.
I'm assuming we will be getting some picks back from GWS from the Taranto/Hopper trade that we could potentially use for Amartey.

He is definitely more of a pure KPF.
 
Surely it’s Harry McKay, just to * with Carlton.

Jack and Trent retire next year, Dusty off the books year after, Lynch year after that. Bolton re-signs over summer, TT and Hopper signed up for 750k forever so no huge increase there.
Sitting on toilet reminds me of Carlton too
 
Surely it’s Harry McKay, just to * with Carlton.

Jack and Trent retire next year, Dusty off the books year after, Lynch year after that. Bolton re-signs over summer, TT and Hopper signed up for 750k forever so no huge increase there.
Lol, would be nice but I can't see it happening.
 
What key forward conundrum??

No I do not know what your thinking.

Where is our Wilmot?, we need to fix our backline
Magic, when Jack hangs up the boots, our key forward stocks are nothing to write home about. Samson Ryan has shown a bit at VFL level but was drafted as a ruckman.
I'd be concerned if we are banking solely on Samson Ryan to be our Jack replacement.

There's nothing wrong with our backline, our midfield was getting dominated throughout the year which resulted in many quality entries for the opposition.
Any backline would struggle when that much supply is coming in.
 
Lol, would be nice but I can't see it happening.
Did you see Hopper and Taranto happening?

Honestly, if Taranto and Hopper are on 750k which I assume replaces Jack and Trent’s contracts. Who will be eating up our cap once Dusty and Lynch come off huge contracts?

Bolton maybe? But he isn’t a million dollar player yet.

Rioli = Edwards contract
Short = Houli’s contract
Baker = lamberts contract

Then the rest Cumbers, MJ, Gibcus, Miller, Sonsie etc won’t be moving into huge contracts.

I think we will have a KPF in mind and the cost won’t be too prohibitive, not saying we can go crazy but we could (completely speculatively) have a 800 to a mill or more for KPF in the next year or two.

I also wonder if the club is careful about drafting KPF. Of course if the player has star potential written all over them you take it but KPF can be so hit and miss compared to mids and flankers, I personally think you’re better of targeting one with some more development then trying to predict an 18 year old KPF and getting a more certain 200 game small. Kind of like rucks.
 
Magic, when Jack hangs up the boots, our key forward stocks are nothing to write home about. Samson Ryan has shown a bit at VFL level but was drafted as a ruckman.
I'd be concerned if we are banking solely on Samson Ryan to be our Jack replacement.

There's nothing wrong with our backline, our midfield was getting dominated throughout the year which resulted in many quality entries for the opposition.
Any backline would struggle when that much supply is coming in.

There is something wrong with our backline.

Look at the scores, forward and against. There is no Rance, and players are older. 2020 could have been a anomaly due to shorter game.

Look at Pies, Lions now, they are like us in 2017 running teams off their legs

Remember when we where winning premierships we where winning them running away with the margin getting greater.

Running over the top of Geelong, getting the surge going in 2017 and eventually over Adelaide.

Is that why we lost to Pies in 2018?. We could not run over them?

Getting De Goey as a FA would be better value than Hopper and TT together losing the draft picks

If we are not young enough with enough energy, even with TT and Hopper it could be difficult.

Swans young, plenty of run
 
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Look at Lions. Better off without McPherson, Mcinerney and Daniher

Hipwood and the smalls works for them

Daniher comes back, they lose
I dont know a McPherson from the Lions sorry.
 

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There is something wrong with our backline.

Look at the scores, forward and against. There is no Rance, and players are older. 2020 could have been a anomaly due to shorter game.

Look at Pies, Lions now, they are like us in 2017 running teams off their legs

Remember when we where winning premierships we where winning them running away with the margin getting greater.

Running over the top of Geelong, getting the surge going in 2017 and eventually over Adelaide.

Is that why we lost to Pies in 2018?. We could not run over them?

Getting De Goey as a FA would be better value than Hopper and TT together losing the draft picks

If we are not young enough with enough energy, even with TT and Hopper it could be difficult.

Swans young, plenty of run
We are getting away from the point.
I respect your opinion though.
 
As I was sitting on the toilet, pondering life's great mysteries, my thoughts started to shift toward our current list and its needs.

In 2016, we pulled off three of probably the most important trades of our clubs recent history.
Dion Prestia, Josh Caddy and Toby Nankervis, all three premiership players, the latter, a current co-captain.
Each of these players filled a significant list need at the time.
Prestia being the high quality contested extractor.
Caddy being the inside bull that wasn't a prolific ball winner, but his presence in the contest helped enable the ones around him. Who also had the ability to play as a medium sized CHF.
Nankervis, the no nonsense ruckman with the heart of a lion, who hits like a truck.

We are now six years later, and when I think about our two pending arrivals being Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper, I can't help but draw some parallels to our 2016 off season.
Taranto the high quality midfielder who runs hard defensively and can be a danger in the forward line.
Hopper being another inside bull that will likely be our next extractor who will work in tandem with Prestia whilst also taking some reliance off of him.

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this, but it's no grand revelation to say that we need a developing key forward who will eventually replace Jack Riewoldt.
The brilliance of the Nankervis trade was that we identified a player that was starved of opportunity at another club due to being third in line through no fault of their own.
Nankervis cost us essentially nothing and was probably our best trade.

So, who is a talented key position forward that is currently starved of opportunity that may turn out to be a very good player if afforded the opportunity?
I wouldn't be surprised if not many of you would be aware of this player, but coincidentally, they are also at the Sydney Swans and has only been given a handful of opportunities... Sound familiar?
The player I am referring to is Joel Amartey.
He is currently 23 years of age, standing at a height of 197cm and looked a very likely type when he broke into the Swans line up earlier this year.
He may be the long term Buddy replacement, but would be the perfect counterpart to Tom Lynch.
I am not sure what his trade value would be, but I think he would be relatively cheap salary wise and would likely attract a high second rounder.

It would be a very shrewd move and I'm hoping to get the discussion started and to will this into existence.
I like Amartey, but don't see how we can get it done
 
I like Amartey, but don't see how we can get it done
All depends on how the trade with GWS goes down. If they send us a couple of later picks back, I'd bundle them up for Amartey. We may not even have to use 30 in the Taranto/Hopper trades.

Whether that gets it done is another story.
 
I’m really hoping one of Ryan or Bauer can come on next year and start rotating with Jack in and out of the side. We’ve turned a number of speculative / lower picks into gold these last few years, if we could do it again, but with a KPF it may very well break the AFL
 
To me the problem is that it's very easy to imagine a scenario where we have a rapidly fading Jack and an injured Lynch. Lynch has missed five matches in each of the last two seasons, we need to hope that both Ryan and Bauer come on next year as it's highly likely at some point we'll need them both in the same round. And if Taranto and Hopper are going to cost in draft picks as much as we suspect our hands are tied for the next couple of years (and in 2024 it will be Lynch solo with no Riewoldt in support).

That's why I guess we need to look at players like Amartey or as bad as this may sound hope that a really good player decides that he wants to leave Richmond and a first rounder or early second pick falls into our lap. But failing that pray that Ryan and Bauer make it, and whilst we're at it maybe Nyuon as well, because we sure as hell will need them.
 
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Good thread. It's a pretty short/average list of KPF prospects when you consider we won't have much draft capital if both the Taranto and Hopper trades come off:

Joel Amarty
Hayden McLean
Josh Treacy
Jack Williams
Oliver Henry
Tom DeKoning
Jacob Koschitzke
Sam Weideman

Feel free to add more...

Jeez you start scraping the bottom of the barrel pretty quickly.

Samson Ryan looks a likely prospect but as with CCJ is he more of a Ruck Fwd than a genuine stay at home KPF ? Bauer looks good but he's only 191cm. Does that cut it unless you're a Jack Gunston ?

We tried Noah Balta forward and I could see the logic in it. If that came off we wouldn't be having this conversation in all likelihood. Too good to be true perhaps. He's so much better behind the ball.

One solution could be to give Josh Gibcus games there. He's very good in the air (with confidence) and seems to be a good set shot. Could we do an Aaron Naughton with him ?

Also what happens with Bigoa Nguon ? Is he a KPD, a Ruck ? Would be replace Grimes in a few years if Gibcus plays forward ?

Lots of questions.

No solutions yet.
 
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I think Miller once Jack is gone could play FF. No tall back will be quicker. He has a great leap and a dead eye kick and offers very good pressure when the ball is on the deck. He is all over the shop right now as a forward because he has not trained in the position and does not want to get in Lynch or Jack's way, but he would be a target leading to the ball for sure. If lumbering old Harry McKay can do it why not Miller.

Also like the look of Bauer, got good hands and plenty of mongrel.
 
Also what happens with Bigoa Nguon ? Is he a KPD, a Ruck ? Would be replace Grimes in a few years if Gibcus plays forward ?

Lots of questions.

No solutions yet.
Or does Gibcus stay down back to replace Tarrant who'll be 34 next year and completing a two year contract?

Yep lots of questions...
 

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