EPL Clubs Falling Behind Elite

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moomba said:
WR wouldnt dream of criticising United. I think he's in luuuuurrrrvvvvveeeeee with them.
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I'm not sure why you can't work this one out.

Arsenal haven't been beyond the last 16 for five consecutive CL campaigns. Therefore logic suggests their co-efficient returns cannot be particularly good over this period, and a large contributing factor as to why England are in danger of losing their 4th spot.

You are over-complicating things by trying to make a comparison with EL coefficient returns
 
Their co-efficient returns have them 2nd highest from the English clubs, and 9th highest in Europe. Only 2 points behind the highest ranked Italian club.

Simple as that really.
 

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moomba said:
Their co-efficient returns have them 2nd highest from the English clubs, and 9th highest in Europe.
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Over the last five years?

Arsenal are supposed to be one of our flagship clubs, but they have simply underperformed in Europe. City have too, so perhaps I was wrong to single Arsenal out. Chelsea on the other hand have not underperformed, and I'd argue nor have United despite a declining side and a dreadful campaign this season.
 
WealstoneRaider said:
I'm not sure why you can't work this one out.

Arsenal haven't been beyond the last 16 for five consecutive CL campaigns. Therefore logic suggests their co-efficient returns cannot be particularly good over this period, and a large contributing factor as to why England are in danger of losing their 4th spot.

You are over-complicating things by trying to make a comparison with EL coefficient returns
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But here's the kicker: Teams get 5 bonus points every time they make the round of 16 in the CL, and 4 from being in the group stage. They only get one extra point from every round onwards (both CL and EL).

That's the biggest difference between EL and CL, you get 9 free points just for making the Round of 16 in the CL, that doesn't exist in the EL. That's a massive return. Don't forget that in order to qualify, you need to get enough points to get there, so that's 2 points per win for every minnow you put away.

Yes, they will get 2 points per win in the finals, but in reality, the minimum amount of points a club can get from winning the CL is seven points (2 points in the R16, QF, SF, 1 point from the Final) from matches, and three points from bonuses. That's only 10. There's a potential 10-17 if you win it all, but the effort to get those points is a lot harder since the opposition is a lot tougher.

It's entirely possible for a Quarter Final team to get just the one extra point over R16 team if they lose both games. That's not exactly a fruitful return.

A lazy effort to get to the R16 could potentially be more rewarding than a tough slog in the EL. (Not saying Arsenal is lazy, just highlighting an ugly potential idea).
 
I'm not denying that FT, the discussion here though is for a team who have the privileged position of occupying 25% of England's CL places over the past 5 years, their return is a large part of why we are being caught by the Italians. To be honest the same goes for city, who have been even more gash.

To highlight this, England have rarely taken EL seriously, and that didn't do us any harm in the 00's when we were top of the rankings
 
WealstoneRaider said:
Over the last five years?

Arsenal are supposed to be one of our flagship clubs, but they have simply underperformed in Europe. City have too, so perhaps I was wrong to single Arsenal out. Chelsea on the other hand have not underperformed, and I'd argue nor have United despite a declining side and a dreadful campaign this season.
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You can't underperform if you're not in the competition to start with, so I guess you're right there.
 
WealstoneRaider said:
I'm not denying that FT, the discussion here though is for a team who have the privileged position of occupying 25% of England's CL places over the past 5 years, their return is a large part of why we are being caught by the Italians. To be honest the same goes for city, who have been even more gash.
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Their return is only 2 points off the highest ranked Italian club. So once again you are talking bollocks.
 
WealstoneRaider said:
Over the last five years?

Arsenal are supposed to be one of our flagship clubs, but they have simply underperformed in Europe. City have too, so perhaps I was wrong to single Arsenal out. Chelsea on the other hand have not underperformed, and I'd argue nor have United despite a declining side and a dreadful campaign this season.
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Yes over the last five years.

FWIW I'm not sure United have scored higher than Arsenal in 1 of those five years but understand you won't have any criticism of them.
 
Cruyff14 said:
Well they haven't contributed much

2013/14 Quarter-finals
2012/13 Round of 16
2011/12 Group stage

The last two seasons where are they?

Arsenal have definitely contributed more in those years.
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They didn't have a spot in 14/15 - Liverpool took it. United are in decline though through these years as I have mentioned.

So taking Moombas views on board, it seems reaching the last 16 appears enough to make a positive contribution to retaining 4 CL places. Fair enough. Still as we all know Arsenal fans aren't happy with their recent CL record, as it's a far cry from their performances during the 00's
 

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Cruyff14 said:
The Arsenal hate is well past the point of stupid now.

Somehow United have contributed more yet not qualifying for the past two seasons :$
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...and missing European football all together last season.
 
I was wrong. Man United did get more points than Arsenal in 13/14. For the other years in this 5 year period Arsenal have scored more (3 times) or the same (1 time).

Of course it is possible that United could surpass Arsenal this season however they are currently 5 points behind.
 
Bojan KantKick said:
United and Chelsea carried England's coefficient for a decade so it'd be nice if Wenger could pull his finger out.
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We were alright in the early - mid 00s. Few quarter finals, made the final. And a semi too I think?

Obviously not as good as what you guys were in that period.

But WR is banging on about how Arsenal aren't pulling their weight currently, yet didn't bat an eyelid when it came to United's performances in the past few seasons.
 
Jatz said:
Leicester to save English football in Europe?

I like your thinking Faith!
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Someone would have put you in a straight jacket if you suggested United and Chelsea would miss top 4 but the Foxes and Spurs would qualify for UCL. Crazy season.
 
moomba said:
WR loves United. Possibly more than he loves Spurs.
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I had to become a de facto Man Uwe fan back in the day as they were the only team capable of stopping Arsenal cleaning up lol. To me they are the most bearable out ofthe big clubs in England - but I have enjoyed seeing them struggle of late cos they have far too many plastics following and this gives them a nice reality check.
 
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