Zidane and Moomba's FFP chat.

[Zidane98]

Don't see it going anywhere. Playing it every year in July / August just means it is a glorified pre season tournament that would replace the ICC trophy.

Probably not a good time to be involved with Saudi investors either.

 

[Magma]

bloody hell

 

[moomba]

And what a lovely, heartwarming story that was. About one of the least offensive blokes in football, generally admired even by those that despise City.

Can't be good for the soul letting your piss boil over that.

 

[Magma]

And what a lovely, heartwarming story that was. About one of the least offensive blokes in football, generally admired even by those that despise City.

Can't be good for the soul letting your piss boil over that.

these sort of things always bring out the worst in the media. you expect stuff like that from people on twitter, not people paid for their opinions on football. something just completely uncalled for. if you want to discuss the leaks, go ahead, but to say that about anyone is not on.

 

[moomba]

I've said in here that Fordham was declared as a related party in our accounts and as such it wouldn't really be an issue going forward as all UEFA could do is required assess the value of the image rights deal.

I've now found out that isn't the case, the RPT I was referring to is a different transaction.


Given that, UEFA have two options. 1 - treat it is an unrelated transactions and everyone gets on with their life, and 2 - treat it as a related party transaction and potentially decrease it's value on the FFP returns.

 

[Zidane98]

Amnesty International get involved:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...l-accused-uefa-ffp-sponsors-a8627741.html?amp

This after Human Rights Watch have previously criticised the club. City's ownership have dragged the club through the mud but their fans seem to be ok with it as long as the Abu Dhabi govt continues to fund them.

 

[moomba]

Indeed

 

[chef]

 

[Zidane98]

Poor City, so hard done by. Must be so difficult running a club on a blank cheque funded by Abu Dhabi.

 

[ossie_21]

The writers behind der Speigel stories on Man City done an AMA on Reddit

Stupid question time. AMA = "ask me anything"?

 

[Latro]

Stupid question time. AMA = "ask me anything"?

Yes

 

[chef]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...n-Citys-reliance-Sheik-Mansours-billions.html

 

[SM]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...n-Citys-reliance-Sheik-Mansours-billions.html

But BDO said they were fine!

 

[glenferry23]

But BDO said they were fine!

Having dealt with many of these firms over the years, including BDO, it’s a pretty simple approach sometimes. Pay them enough money, and they’ll say/declare whatever you want them to.

 

[SM]

Having dealt with many of these firms over the years, including BDO, it’s a pretty simple approach sometimes. Pay them enough money, and they’ll say/declare whatever you want them to.

Having worked for one I'm inclined to agree. As I pointed out at the time, the line item in the FS around other income is so vague they didn't have to do much to sign off on it.

 

[Zidane98]

Even deals like the Nexen one which initially appear to be legitimate are also suspect as Mubadala are invested in them heavily (Abu Dhabi state owned investment fund run by Mansour). There's a strong case to deem any company that Mansour has funded as a related party.

Looks like UEFA are going to reopen an investigation into City. UEFA should punish then to the fullest extent in the knowledge that clubs cannot take football governing bodies to court and can only appeal through the CAS.

 

[Zidane98]

Having dealt with many of these firms over the years, including BDO, it’s a pretty simple approach sometimes. Pay them enough money, and they’ll say/declare whatever you want them to.

Do you have any contacts inside BDO who have knowledge about the auditing process?

 

[chef]

Seems its really easy to manipulate sponsorship and wage figures and create whatever narrative you want.

 

[glenferry23]

Do you have any contacts inside BDO who have knowledge about the auditing process?

Yes and no, if that makes sense. Well yes I have a couple of contacts there, one is now a Partner who actually worked for me once upon a time (I also had to make him redundant but that’s a different story).

He doesn’t work within the CFG team directly. However, he did mention in passing that those who do have had a nervous and stressful couple of weeks answering a lot of questions from their indemnity lawyers.

 

[Zidane98]

Yes and no, if that makes sense. Well yes I have a couple of contacts there, one is now a Partner who actually worked for me once upon a time (I also had to make him redundant but that’s a different story).

He doesn’t work within the CFG team directly. However, he did mention in passing that those who do have had a nervous and stressful couple of weeks answering a lot of questions from their indemnity lawyers.

What are the liability implications for a company like BDO if it is deemed that their audit was not done indepently?

 

[moomba]

But BDO said they were fine!

BDO said they were not related party transactions according to the International Accounting Standard.

 

[moomba]

Seems its really easy to manipulate sponsorship and wage figures and create whatever narrative you want.

It absolutely is. There is a good article floating around by some academic saying that not only does FFP give an inaccurate picture of a clubs financial health but it is also very easily manipulated.

I'll try to find it.

[Edit]

Here it is

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2017/09/05/financial-fair-play-foul-play-sour-grapes/

but a quick look at the rules revealed that FFP was a profit (or in the case of many clubs, a loss) based metric.

As anyone who has worked in finance will know, bankruptcy arises because of a lack of cash, not profit. If you don’t have the cash to pay your suppliers, wages or bank loans the business faces the risk of administration.

Profit is an artificial measure, full of judgement, opinion and far more easily manipulated than cash, so it seems odd that UEFA would go down this particular route.

Some interesting stuff in the article, both pro and against City/FFP.

 

[moomba]

Even deals like the Nexen one which initially appear to be legitimate are also suspect as Mubadala are invested in them heavily (Abu Dhabi state owned investment fund run by Mansour). There's a strong case to deem any company that Mansour has funded as a related party.

What you're saying is that we are unable to get a sponsorship with anyone that Mansour has had business dealings with.

 

[glenferry23]

What are the liability implications for a company like BDO if it is deemed that their audit was not done indepently?

Wouldn’t know in too much depth, the legalities all get a bit too technical for me sorry. There are multiple disclaimers within auditing and things eventually work back to the information they were provided with originally.

This stuff is difficult to prove though. But still, reputationally speaking, it’s a pretty poor look on their firm to be associated with what is now coming out.

 

[Zidane98]

What you're saying is that we are unable to get a sponsorship with anyone that Mansour has had business dealings with.

What I an saying is that a sponsorship deal shouldn't be linked to a state owned Abu Dhabi enterprise investing in that company. The fact that Mansour has control over the club and the state owned investment company suggests a strong case that Nexen too is a related party.

I'd like to see how your books look after the fraudulent image rights deal is removed completely (not a legitimate business transaction) and any deal where Sheikh Mansour is involved in funding that company is assessed at its real market value.

The question has to be asked: do any clubs other than City/ PSG have a plethora of state backed companies funding them? Can't be long before a complaint is brought forward about that because state funding is illegal in the European marketplace.