First side to 17 premierships?

[SgtSchulz]

In 1981 the VFL was a amateur/semi-professional suburban competition in Melbourne with zoning and the majority of players from within Victoria.

In 1991 the AFL had a team in every mainland state, professional wages, genuine national draft, without zoning.

Completely different.

Origins the same but equating the two as equal is silly.

 

[Franc de Borges]

Carlton’s 1995 was excellent but it was one ‘out of the box’ to an extent so it’s been even longer since they got to a premiership via a ‘build up’ such as they are attempting now

Um, we were equal top in '93 and one game off in '94 with the best percentage.

 

[Pessimistic]

Um, we were equal top in '93 and one game off in '94 with the best percentage.

To an extent. It was a bit like hawks 1991. Every Successful team has b graders who perform at a grade for a while but Carlton had an insane number of those all at the same time.

It was a fantastic performance as I did note

 

[smasha]

The Association Football Leagues are sad reading.

Two teams dominating lol.


A League looks good though.

 

[Pessimistic]

The Association Football Leagues are sad reading.

Two teams dominating lol.


A League looks good though.

Some clubs never have won and never will. Its about old tribal loyalties.

the premiership and championship is mainly teams which have achieved something. Look at attendances below that though. Far from the 50-60k of EPL crowds they get crowds we get for VFL games sub 5k

 

[footyfan1978]

Carlton’s 1995 was excellent but it was one ‘out of the box’ to an extent so it’s been even longer since they got to a premiership via a ‘build up’ such as they are attempting now

Agreed in terms of build up. That 1995 team had most of the stars like Silvagni, Kernahan, Bradley, Williams, Kouta and Ratten from pre-draft era. End of 2015 is the first genuine attempt to build up a list through draft era which has been around for just about three decades now. It is just one of the reasons we been stuck on 16 premiership since then. We previously never really had a strategy for the drafting era.
We do now!!!

As a Carlton fan the last time I seen a big array of elite young talent in the club at same time was when I first started watching and the youngsters that were a big part of 3 flags in 4 years from 1979 to 82 were guys like Harmes, Johnston, Sheldon, Buckley, McConville, Marcou and complimented with shrewd recruiting from interstate with Klomp, Maylin, Hunter and Bosustow of similar age. Add trades of Perovic from Saints and Wells from Melbourne and we were cherry ripe for multiple premierships. I was excited as a kid before those 3 flags I saw. Just as excited now with this draft era version of youth we assembled together in last 3 draft periods. 2020's going to be very exciting decade for my club. Hence my earlier posts in thread I see premiership 20 is within reach by end of next decade.

 

[fishardansin]

Hawks will take another 30 or 40 years minimum to win 4. They have had 2 and a half good patches in the last 50 years. They are about to head into a period of pain and with 18 teams in the comp rebuilding will take a while. Considering what their membership numbers where in the late 90s and early 00s, plus average crowd numbers being a truer reflection of interest generated, it will be interesting to see if their support keeps up as well. Will they be able to match the support that clubs like Colllingwood, Essendon and Richmond get through bad times? I doubt it very much.

 

[Carringbush2010]

All that I ever said is that all current AFL clubs are currently quite a way off 17 AFL premierships

Carlton & Essendon 16 league premierships
Collingwood 15 league premierships
Hawthorn 13 league premierships

Is this satisfactory for you?

 

[Jimthegreat]

Carlton’s 1995 was excellent but it was one ‘out of the box’ to an extent so it’s been even longer since they got to a premiership via a ‘build up’ such as they are attempting now

They built to that over 4 years. It didn't "just happen".

 

[Pessimistic]

They built to that over 4 years. It didn't "just happen".

Whatever you think I meant. I didn't mean that

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawks will take another 30 or 40 years minimum to win 4. They have had 2 and a half good patches in the last 50 years. They are about to head into a period of pain and with 18 teams in the comp rebuilding will take a while. Considering what their membership numbers where in the late 90s and early 00s, plus average crowd numbers being a truer reflection of interest generated, it will be interesting to see if their support keeps up as well. Will they be able to match the support that clubs like Colllingwood, Essendon and Richmond get through bad times? I doubt it very much.

Essendon? one good attendance season in five? probably the most dramatic drop off in recent times. though you can hardly blame their fans

So how did 1997 to 2007 go for the hawks? the least successful team in that time bar Freo. Memberships and attendances went OK bar the latter part of 2004

Memberships still in the top half of the league as I recall. I think well be OK but will that be tested? so far weve had a 12 game form slump covering 2016 and 2017

 

[Pessimistic]

Agreed in terms of build up. That 1995 team had most of the stars like Silvagni, Kernahan, Bradley, Williams, Kouta and Ratten from pre-draft era. End of 2015 is the first genuine attempt to build up a list through draft era which has been around for just about three decades now. It is just one of the reasons we been stuck on 16 premiership since then. We previously never really had a strategy for the drafting era.
We do now!!!

As a Carlton fan the last time I seen a big array of elite young talent in the club at same time was when I first started watching and the youngsters that were a big part of 3 flags in 4 years from 1979 to 82 were guys like Harmes, Johnston, Sheldon, Buckley, McConville, Marcou and complimented with shrewd recruiting from interstate with Klomp, Maylin, Hunter and Bosustow of similar age. Add trades of Perovic from Saints and Wells from Melbourne and we were cherry ripe for multiple premierships. I was excited as a kid before those 3 flags I saw. Just as excited now with this draft era version of youth we assembled together in last 3 draft periods. 2020's going to be very exciting decade for my club. Hence my earlier posts in thread I see premiership 20 is within reach by end of next decade.

Some Carlton fans were very bullish about Fev and Whitnall I remember

 

[Carringbush2010]

Can you imagine the outrage from other Leagues if they changed the name to AFL in 1930?

In the words of yoda:

Imagination you have bull terry

 

[footyfan1978]

Some Carlton fans were very bullish about Fev and Whitnall I remember

You need a lot more than two young guns to go places. Those that may have been bullish then may not have been had they known Carlton would lose picks 1 and 2 from 2002 draft, picks 31 and 34 and also round 1 and 2 the following year. That meant Goddard and Wells at time in reality plus probably two more young guns. They were going nowhere until the club really understood the salary cap era was also a reality and not just a league fad that would pass as Elliott seemed to think.

 

[zucchini]

Won't be Essendon, even when they finish top they struggle to convert it into a premiership.
Plus look at this tragic 16 year effort.

 

[QuietB]

Hawks will take another 30 or 40 years minimum to win 4. They have had 2 and a half good patches in the last 50 years. They are about to head into a period of pain and with 18 teams in the comp rebuilding will take a while. Considering what their membership numbers where in the late 90s and early 00s, plus average crowd numbers being a truer reflection of interest generated, it will be interesting to see if their support keeps up as well. Will they be able to match the support that clubs like Colllingwood, Essendon and Richmond get through bad times? I doubt it very much.

You are projecting

Oh, and Hawks a bigger club than * More members - more revenue

ps. 90’s were a long time ago and no one had any members then

 

[maskmcgee]

Sure they count. The premierships won before 1990 were VFL premierships, after 1990 they were AFL premierships, they all count as premierships in this league. I never said otherwise. I merely pointed out that all the current AFL clubs were quite a way off 17 AFL premierships.

And quote the part in my opening post where I typed the word "AFL"

 

[Monkey King]

Origins the same but equating the two as equal is silly.

How you judge the value of premierships from different eras is just a personal thing. In 1901 the game itself was vastly different and the comp was in its infancy, with University fielding a team and North in the VFA. Some might say claiming a flag won in 1901 as equal to a flag won in 1989 as silly. And there would be a good argument that the 89’ premiership is more equal to a modern day flag than it is to a flag won in 1901; therefore being equally silly to put all pre-1990 flags in the same basket. But again, where one draws the line is a personal matter. Outside of that is that every year for 121 years this league has held a competition, the results of which are officially recorded.

 

[ok.crows]

And quote the part in my opening post where I typed the word "AFL"

I didn't respond to your opening post.

 

[ok.crows]

Carlton & Essendon 16 league premierships
Collingwood 15 league premierships
Hawthorn 13 league premierships

Is this satisfactory for you?

Its OK by me, but the official term used by the AFL when referring to the combined records is "AFL/VFL". This term means "AFL or VFL". So you could say that "Collingwood has 15 AFL/VFL premierships", just as the AFL itself does. Nothing really wrong with that I suppose, it is historically accurate, although it does leave out the detail information of how many were VFL premierships and how many were AFL premierships.

 

[ok.crows]

If in the next 20 years say the Crows win another 5 or more flags.
Then the League some years after the great Crows era introduce teams from NZ and PNG. Change the League name to the OFL.
I wonder if you still be arguing your point?

Why not? My point would still be historically accurate.

You could in this scenario refer to the combined count as VFL/AFL/OFL premierships, just as today the AFL refers to the combined count as VFL/AFL premierships.

 

[ok.crows]

So the current SANFL was formed 1928 then? And Premierships from 1877-1906 SAFA and 1907-1927 SAFL can not be counted because of name changes?!

Why do people keep on with this inaccurate whinging? Premierships from 1877-1906 SAFA and 1907-1927 SAFL can not be counted as SANFL premierships, but they can be counted as SAFL/SAFA/SANFL premierships.

 

[JVseven]

Richmond. Easily.

 

[ok.crows]

There is one prize. It’s called a premiership. The same prize is offered every year. Win the comp, win the prize. The prize is represented by a cup. The cup is different. The prize is the same. Like Harry’s car, the prize hasn’t changed because the comp’s name changed. Win the comp. Win the prize.

1989 was the league’s 93rd offering of such a prize. 1990 was the 94th. Richmond recently won the 121st. This thread is about which club will be the first to win this prize 17 times. It’s all pretty straightforward, but you expect people to abandon reason and an understanding of history in complete deference to a letter engraved on a cup.

I have no issue with any of this ... there is an official term used by the AFL to refer to this combined record, namely "VFL/AFL", which means literally "VFL or AFL". That is fine and peachy.

I wasn't talking about that. What I said was that all current AFL teams are quite a way off 17 AFL premierships. This is a perfectly correct remark.

Why have you got your knickers in such a twist over a perfectly correct remark?

 

[Hawkk]

Hawks will take another 30 or 40 years minimum to win 4. They have had 2 and a half good patches in the last 50 years. They are about to head into a period of pain and with 18 teams in the comp rebuilding will take a while. Considering what their membership numbers where in the late 90s and early 00s, plus average crowd numbers being a truer reflection of interest generated, it will be interesting to see if their support keeps up as well. Will they be able to match the support that clubs like Colllingwood, Essendon and Richmond get through bad times? I doubt it very much.

Lolz.

Do you refer to the 1997-2003 period where Hawthorn was in the top 3 Victorian clubs for membership more seasons then not?

Myth debunked