- Jan 19, 2014
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That would be a mistake in this instance and too late IMO.
Rumour Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)
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It’s what generally happens not sure there has been many external coaches come in and cut multiple players the moment they walk in the door.
- Jan 19, 2014
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this is the exception to the rule
- Jan 19, 2014
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I think one thing to remember, or at least bear in mind, is that dynasties are generally the preserve of big clubs. All of Geelong, Hawks, Richmond and Brisbane are bigger clubs than us, and 2 of them call the MCG home. The destination factor of some of those plus Pies and Carlton will affect us in some way in terms of recruitment.
So I put it to y'all, that if we can pop up with a flag every 10 years or so we are over achieving (and tbh I'm Ok with that - I want to neither win nor lose all the time). Forget the past, in the current environment, a flag every 10 years is over achieving. We won one 8 years ago. If our list management arm can work some magic in the next year or 2 to maximise what we have left of Bont and our tall forward stocks, then I don't think we can be unhappy.
So in respect of Bevo, if he can expose what needs to be exposed for success beyond this year in the time that he has left, then our gratitude should be not only for what he did in 2016, but what he left for the incoming coach.
We're missing a couple of pieces and we need a new voice. But how will we view Bevo in a couple of years if we snag another one in 2026?
I think he's misunderstood to a degree. I think he'll cop whatever is coming his way but he will do what he thinks is in the best interests of a) the players who give a damn and b) his successor.
I rather think that we'll look back on him fondly regardless of where we finish this year and that it won't be all/only about 2016.
So I put it to y'all, that if we can pop up with a flag every 10 years or so we are over achieving (and tbh I'm Ok with that - I want to neither win nor lose all the time). Forget the past, in the current environment, a flag every 10 years is over achieving. We won one 8 years ago. If our list management arm can work some magic in the next year or 2 to maximise what we have left of Bont and our tall forward stocks, then I don't think we can be unhappy.
So in respect of Bevo, if he can expose what needs to be exposed for success beyond this year in the time that he has left, then our gratitude should be not only for what he did in 2016, but what he left for the incoming coach.
We're missing a couple of pieces and we need a new voice. But how will we view Bevo in a couple of years if we snag another one in 2026?
I think he's misunderstood to a degree. I think he'll cop whatever is coming his way but he will do what he thinks is in the best interests of a) the players who give a damn and b) his successor.
I rather think that we'll look back on him fondly regardless of where we finish this year and that it won't be all/only about 2016.
MaxiBont
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After 8 games, I'm hard pressed to think of players that look like they're playing their best footy.
JUH, Cody, Darcy and Buku have all improved, but is that coaching or just developing with age / playing in better positions?
Bont, JoD, Williams, Dale, Richards, Naughton, English, Macrae, Daniel, Dale (not last 3 weeks), JJ have all looked worse and some even not like AFL players.
Treloar and L.Jones have held their level.
It feels like we no longer have a coach that can get the best out of his players. At least, I hope so because the alternative is that we have players that were in a GF 3 years ago (bar Dunkley) who have dropped of the biggest cliff.
JUH, Cody, Darcy and Buku have all improved, but is that coaching or just developing with age / playing in better positions?
Bont, JoD, Williams, Dale, Richards, Naughton, English, Macrae, Daniel, Dale (not last 3 weeks), JJ have all looked worse and some even not like AFL players.
Treloar and L.Jones have held their level.
It feels like we no longer have a coach that can get the best out of his players. At least, I hope so because the alternative is that we have players that were in a GF 3 years ago (bar Dunkley) who have dropped of the biggest cliff.
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- Apr 26, 2013
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Not a bad article from Slobbo.
Sums it up well. Doesn't matter who's to blame. It's time for a change.
"Mark Robinson: Sunday’s loss an alarming reality check for Dogs, Beveridge
It’s precarious times at the Kennel, and it seems Luke Beveridge is fighting a bushfire with a garden hose and there is an inferno coming over the hill, writes MARK ROBINSON.
Luke Beveridge will know when it’s time.
He won’t be sacked by the Western Bulldogs, but he’ll know when the party is over.
It won’t be this week, despite the unexpected loss to Hawthorn on Sunday.
But it could be next week if the Bulldogs lose to lowly Richmond on Saturday night.
It’s that precarious at the kennel.
After that, they play the Giants (away), Sydney (home), Collingwood (Marvel Stadium) and then Brisbane (Marvel).
It feels like Beveridge is fighting a bushfire with a garden hose and the inferno is still yet to come over the hill.
Sunday’s loss to the Hawks was so disheartening and so much of an alarming reality check that even the staunchest Beveridge supporters would have lost faith.
Suddenly for fans, the hopelessness of playing finals was laid bare.
There’s always one game that becomes unacceptable.
The Beveridge detractors would argue it came in Round 23 last year when the Bulldogs lost to West Coast at Marvel Stadium. It was the Eagles’ third win of the season and the immediate punishment for the Bulldogs was they missed finals.
All was forgiven. Back-to-back reviews of the footy department ensued, personnel changes were made and the new season loomed with internal confidence and external optimism.
Of their first eight games, six were against teams that didn’t play finals in 2023.
They are 3-5 in that stretch.
If the Hawks game wasn’t THE game, then the Tigers game will be.
If it is a loss – and unless Beveridge is as stubborn as his critics say – it’s impossible to believe the coach would put his head on his pillow that night and not ask himself: Am I the right person to coach this footy club?
Maybe the powers that be – especially Ameet Bains, the chief executive that said Beveridge had a top-four list to coach – might ask him to ask himself the question.
Mind you, the Bulldogs might find confidence, they might find more midfielders, they might correct their handball game, they might stop turning the ball over and they might stop bombing the ball into the forward 50m, hoping one of their big blokes will mark it. In doing so, they might resurrect their season.
This doom commentary would pass, but there’s too many “mights” there.
I would argue the Bulldogs’ top, top-end is elite – and that’s Marcus Bontempelli and Tom Liberatore.
The rest of the big names – Aaron Naughton, Tim English, Adam Treloar, Liam Jones, Ed Richards, Bailey Dale, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Cody Weightman – stagger between outstanding, serviceable and average.
Caleb Daniel is done at the Dogs, the career of Jack Macrae, a club champion, is coming to an end faster than what he’s moving, Bailey Smith is who knows where in his mind, and all of that makes Josh Dunkley’s departure to Brisbane even more devastating.
Now that Libba is out indefinitely, with what is understood to be his third concussion in 10 games in his past nine AFL games. That’s frightening in itself.
Very quickly, you could argue the list has been exposed.
Either that, or argue that Beveridge’s messaging, or style of coaching, has lost its lustre.
That’s the burning question the Bulldogs must now grapple with. Is it the list, self-belief in the players, or is it Beveridge?
Change often works.
Giants coach Leon Cameron stood down eight rounds into the 2022 season. The Giants played finals in 2021 and in Cameron’s ninth year, they were 2-6 before he departed.
The new coach, Adam Kingsley, had the same list but a new fast-moving game plan and got the Giants to the preliminary final in 2023.
This is Beveridge’s 10th season as coach. He is a fighter. Always has been. He was never the most talented as a player, but he had grit and a tremendous work ethic.
But if this season continues to go pear-shaped, he will need to park that instinct to fight and fix the problems and accept that what he’s demanding from his players is not being delivered.
That means a change is needed.
And it doesn’t matter whether you’re a premiership coach or not, the party always ends for everyone."
Sums it up well. Doesn't matter who's to blame. It's time for a change.
"Mark Robinson: Sunday’s loss an alarming reality check for Dogs, Beveridge
It’s precarious times at the Kennel, and it seems Luke Beveridge is fighting a bushfire with a garden hose and there is an inferno coming over the hill, writes MARK ROBINSON.
Luke Beveridge will know when it’s time.
He won’t be sacked by the Western Bulldogs, but he’ll know when the party is over.
It won’t be this week, despite the unexpected loss to Hawthorn on Sunday.
But it could be next week if the Bulldogs lose to lowly Richmond on Saturday night.
It’s that precarious at the kennel.
After that, they play the Giants (away), Sydney (home), Collingwood (Marvel Stadium) and then Brisbane (Marvel).
It feels like Beveridge is fighting a bushfire with a garden hose and the inferno is still yet to come over the hill.
Sunday’s loss to the Hawks was so disheartening and so much of an alarming reality check that even the staunchest Beveridge supporters would have lost faith.
Suddenly for fans, the hopelessness of playing finals was laid bare.
There’s always one game that becomes unacceptable.
The Beveridge detractors would argue it came in Round 23 last year when the Bulldogs lost to West Coast at Marvel Stadium. It was the Eagles’ third win of the season and the immediate punishment for the Bulldogs was they missed finals.
All was forgiven. Back-to-back reviews of the footy department ensued, personnel changes were made and the new season loomed with internal confidence and external optimism.
Of their first eight games, six were against teams that didn’t play finals in 2023.
They are 3-5 in that stretch.
If the Hawks game wasn’t THE game, then the Tigers game will be.
If it is a loss – and unless Beveridge is as stubborn as his critics say – it’s impossible to believe the coach would put his head on his pillow that night and not ask himself: Am I the right person to coach this footy club?
Maybe the powers that be – especially Ameet Bains, the chief executive that said Beveridge had a top-four list to coach – might ask him to ask himself the question.
Mind you, the Bulldogs might find confidence, they might find more midfielders, they might correct their handball game, they might stop turning the ball over and they might stop bombing the ball into the forward 50m, hoping one of their big blokes will mark it. In doing so, they might resurrect their season.
This doom commentary would pass, but there’s too many “mights” there.
I would argue the Bulldogs’ top, top-end is elite – and that’s Marcus Bontempelli and Tom Liberatore.
The rest of the big names – Aaron Naughton, Tim English, Adam Treloar, Liam Jones, Ed Richards, Bailey Dale, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Cody Weightman – stagger between outstanding, serviceable and average.
Caleb Daniel is done at the Dogs, the career of Jack Macrae, a club champion, is coming to an end faster than what he’s moving, Bailey Smith is who knows where in his mind, and all of that makes Josh Dunkley’s departure to Brisbane even more devastating.
Now that Libba is out indefinitely, with what is understood to be his third concussion in 10 games in his past nine AFL games. That’s frightening in itself.
Very quickly, you could argue the list has been exposed.
Either that, or argue that Beveridge’s messaging, or style of coaching, has lost its lustre.
That’s the burning question the Bulldogs must now grapple with. Is it the list, self-belief in the players, or is it Beveridge?
Change often works.
Giants coach Leon Cameron stood down eight rounds into the 2022 season. The Giants played finals in 2021 and in Cameron’s ninth year, they were 2-6 before he departed.
The new coach, Adam Kingsley, had the same list but a new fast-moving game plan and got the Giants to the preliminary final in 2023.
This is Beveridge’s 10th season as coach. He is a fighter. Always has been. He was never the most talented as a player, but he had grit and a tremendous work ethic.
But if this season continues to go pear-shaped, he will need to park that instinct to fight and fix the problems and accept that what he’s demanding from his players is not being delivered.
That means a change is needed.
And it doesn’t matter whether you’re a premiership coach or not, the party always ends for everyone."
Duhhhh
Top 4 list.
Going through evolution.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over.
Were a very capable team.
Honourable loss vs the hawks.
Making finals is improvement on last year.
Seriously where the heck does the club think its at?
Going through evolution.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over.
Were a very capable team.
Honourable loss vs the hawks.
Making finals is improvement on last year.
Seriously where the heck does the club think its at?
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- Jan 19, 2014
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Dog help me but I'm watching that sh1t show on 9 while I write this. A pass mark is not whether we make finals or not. A pass mark is what Bevo leaves for the next coach .... next year.
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
The persistent belief by many this board that English isn't an excellent and highly valuable player (let alone a poor player, which many try to claim) remains ever strange to me.
CarnTheScray
Norm Smith Medallist
The question is not “is he a good player” it’s “will we win a premiership with him as our ruck”, and the answer is no.
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
It can be both true that Keath and Bruce exceeded expectations in individual season(s) and not for the expectation for the remainder of their careers.
Both were well-entrenched Best 22 footballers who had played multiple best-on-ground matches in the seasons before they were recruited by us. Not superstars, but players you'd expect to remain in an average best 22 well into their early 30's. Much of our forward planning - and indeed our desire to recruit with recycled and top-up players - was based on the expectation that a greater proportion of our 2019-21 team would keep their form through to 2024 where we are. Whether that expectation is correct or misguided is up for debate (especially as I've pointed out numerous times there was an expectation that Smith would project into being a top 10-20 midfielder in the league too) but I think it's also due to a bit of bad luck with players e.g. Hunter as well.
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
Why's that? He was all-Australian last year. He's a good footballer. Generally to win flags to need to have good footballers in your team.
He’s definitely a good player. We need an alternative for when he’s getting belted in the middle and unfortunately Lobb just wasn’t it. Darcy might be but is still finding his feet.
This year he’s had a few games where he’s had the fumbles badly. Statistically it might look similar but the quality of his possessions has been well down this year.
I think what aggravates people is the sort of price tag that was bandied about. He’s nowhere near as important as Naughton, Bont etc. Still valuable.
_Mike_
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You may find to the contrary that a few, myself included, think that English is very good and can play good footy, albeit as a mobile KPP. A ruck he isnt, he just doesnt have the craft & body for it.
CarnTheScray
Norm Smith Medallist
We should stop persisting with Libba then, no All-Australian to his name, if that is the metric of a “good footballer.”
If you’re going to keep running these surface level arguments every time Tim English is brought up, please stop talking about him. Nobody is saying he is a terrible player, just a terrible ruck with serious flaws and not the right fit for us. His major issues are visible to anyone and everyone and have already been discussed to death.
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
People are not a mile away from saying he's a terrible player.
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
His ability and value largely comes from beating opposition rucks in offensive and defensive transition. The value disappears both when he has a key defender tracking him and when his movement across the ground is limited to just the attacking half.
In any case, we played him as primarily a key forward after Bruce went down in 2021. He basically didn't get a mark or kick other than the minutes he was playing in the ruck as 2nd ruck and that should have put the belief to bed for good, even before his ruck form improved in 2022 and 2023.
mitch hahn premium light
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Is the board likely to be speaking directly with players? Would the board have spoken to Bont, Libba, Jones etc etc ?
A lot of people are saying that we’ll wait til the end of the year to move Bevo on, but if the board gets the mail from players that Bevo has lost the group then surely it has to be quicker than that?
surely we risk losing too many players to other clubs if we wait too long.
A lot of people are saying that we’ll wait til the end of the year to move Bevo on, but if the board gets the mail from players that Bevo has lost the group then surely it has to be quicker than that?
surely we risk losing too many players to other clubs if we wait too long.
- Jan 19, 2014
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Not if we signal to the players that Bevo is not there next year.
I think Bevo himself all but signalled that in his presser.
And then it becomes, every game this year, you, the players, are rehearsing for list management decisions that are yet to be made at the end of this year and the next coach. If you want a career post me (Bevo), how about you pull your collective fingers out of your collective arses now.
In an interesting way, it potentially puts Bevo in a position of strength, and the club. Forget about me (Bevo), my future is sealed. But yours? Yours is up in the air. If you get an opportunity, you should take it. You should really take it. Prove that you are a good team mate, not a flake, will go when it's hard and coachable. Just sayin .... My responsibilty is to ensure that the club is in a good place beyond my tenure, which is up pretty soon. Part of that responsibility is to assess whether you're any good or not so the next guy isn't screwed. So I'm gonna let him see you. How you are then seen....is up to you. You're either something to work with or you're outta here .. like me.
How do ya like them apples. Personal accountability. Get used to it.
Whadda we want
Players who'll bust their arses to help their team mates like Libba and Bont
When do we want it
Now
Whadda we want....
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I've been told by people well connected to the club that Beveridge was made an offer to leave at the end of last season (as I mentioned a few weeks ago).
Leaving last year would have been acting in the best interests of the club and it's supporters. I have no sympathy for a guy who's time was clearly up but chose to hold the club to his multi million dollar deal.
We could have been a full pre season and eight games into a new coach and game plan by now. Potentially on our way to finals.
I don't blame him for that decision. But I certainly don't feel sorry for him.
mitch hahn premium light
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I think Bevo also has to be held accountable for our imbalanced list profile:
We have no quality young defenders (and yet Lewis Young is running around at Carlton). Our best and only A-grade defender is 35.
Midfield: we have a serious lack of young quality midfielders and yet Josh Dunkley and Patrick Lipinski are thriving elsewhere.
We have no quality young defenders (and yet Lewis Young is running around at Carlton). Our best and only A-grade defender is 35.
Midfield: we have a serious lack of young quality midfielders and yet Josh Dunkley and Patrick Lipinski are thriving elsewhere.
- Jan 21, 2013
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If only that were true. Very few seem to treating him with respect and dignity at the moment.
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