List Mgmt. Geelong’s looming list profile crisis (it’s not what you think)

[4quarter_cat]

I'd also add that if you have a list of capable role players and no stars then you're in probably a good position to bring in a- grade free agents having a star shaped hole in both the list and the salary cap.

If you don't get the star free agents you fall down the ladder and get a star draftee.

An excellent point.

 

[BORIS332]

It's not a matter of being spoilt. I barracked for the Cats for nearly 40 years before seeing a flag so I'm hardly in the "entitled" category. All I want is to see the club make good decisions with regard to list management.

I don't think you can win a flag without 4-5 A grade guns. We don't have one in my opinion with our young players. So it just stands to reason that we need to get them if we are to see our next flag. That's what I'm about. The topping up means we are stuck in this position of making finals but not really contending each year. Stuck in limbo. I think we will ultimately need to fall down the ladder, as Sydney and Hawthorn have done, in order to secure a few A grade youngsters.

Go on footywire and compare Parfitt and Bartel’s stats at the same age.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Go on footywire and compare Parfitt and Bartel’s stats at the same age.

To be fair that means absolutely nothing.
Constable blows nearly everyone away with the amount of games he's played and he can't get a game and most don't want him anywhere near the team.

 

[dazbroncos]

To be fair that means absolutely nothing.
Constable blows nearly everyone away with the amount of games he's played and he can't get a game and most don't want him anywhere near the team.

so because Chook cant get a game for whatever reason that invalidates every other under 100 gamer.
Yup makes sense.

Good talk.

GO Catters

 

[year of the cat]

Go on footywire and compare Parfitt and Bartel’s stats at the same age.

To be fair that means absolutely nothing.
Constable blows nearly everyone away with the amount of games he's played and he can't get a game and most don't want him anywhere near the team.

Parfitt won't get anywhere near Bartel's level. I assume you aren't suggesting that? Raw numbers tell you very little, it's the impact that really counts.

 

[dazbroncos]

Parfitt won't get anywhere near Bartel's level. I assume you aren't suggesting that? Raw numbers tell you very little, it's the impact that really counts.

And Bartel, Boris and Scarlett under 100 games would have not gotten anywhere near Riccardi, Budda and Tim Darcy either.
Am I doing it right?
GO Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

so because Chook cant get a game for whatever reason that invalidates every other under 100 gamer.
Yup makes sense.

Good talk.

GO Catters

Yeah good talk. Comparing Bartel to Parfitt on stats at the same stage means nothing was the point.
Parfitt is fine but even at the same age and stats it was very clear to see Bartel had every skill of the game covered extremely well.
And yes it does make perfect f**king sense if your trying to base your whole argument on it.

 

[year of the cat]

And Bartel, Boris and Scarlett under 100 games would have not gotten anywhere near Riccardi, Budda and Tim Darcy either.
Am I doing it right?
GO Catters

Bookmark my post Daz and we'll look at it again in 3 years if you like. I like Parfitt but he'll be a B/B+ grade mid.

Btw, Enright showed a lot early doors. Bartel also showed great signs albeit he needed time to develop.

 

[MacStradbroke]

What a terrible comparison. That was those players first draft year. You are comparing them to players in their 2nd, 3rd and 4th year.

Plenty on here disregarding Cooper Stevens already, first year, coming off a broken leg and had no VFL. Just pointing out that even arguably the greatest mid of all time took a year to cement his spot.

 

[dazbroncos]

Yeah good talk. Comparing Bartel to Parfitt on stats at the same stage means nothing was the point.
Parfitt is fine but even at the same age and stats it was very clear to see Bartel had every skill of the game covered extremely well.

Based now using the rear view mirror or back in 03 you sat there and said " yup Jimmy has the Norm, Brownlow and 300 games in him."

Sorry if I call BS - but that aside, it makes the point that players take time to develop - and it seems especially longer with us as they are pushed out for older players and made to wait their go ( right or wrong). They just need more time - BMac and Neeldy talk about it all the time on KROCK - it takes time for players to get better in systems etc. Il trust their takes on it. Now.. we nened to keep what we have ( Narkle, Chook, Cocky et al) and keep them pushing up.

GO Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

And Bartel, Boris and Scarlett under 100 games would have not gotten anywhere near Riccardi, Budda and Tim Darcy either.
Am I doing it right?
GO Catters

Am I doing right? Having to say some abrasive comment at the end of every post now is the new way?
All those players had reached a very high level by 100 games.
Not many players in history could go past Hocking after any amount of games but by that stage they had the others covered.
Scarlett would of been All Australian by 100 games.

 

[MacStradbroke]

Geez, you're spoiled aren't you. It will be a very long time, maybe never again will have such a talented list. Doesn't mean one shouldn't be excited.

Henry might be no Dasher or Boris, but he does a good job nevertheless, and year on year his rebounding ability continues to improve.
Parfitt a B grader, again very harsh. He's going to be in the better half of our midfield team for a long time. I think he'll end up being good enough to be picked in every midfield in the competition (if he's not there already). For a start the guys tackling is elite, every team needs those players.

We may end up lacking the "Star power" of having a the likes of Danger, Selwood, Ablett. But we might end up with a very flat list of guys who are all above average, and the strongest bottom six in the league. Champion team beats a team of champions.

I often wonder what people used to write on these sites prior to our super team Of 07-11. Seems everything and everyone is compared to them these days and it just isn’t fair or reasonable. Possibly the best team you could put together in this modern era of equalisation.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Based now using the rear view mirror or back in 03 you sat there and said " yup Jimmy has the Norm, Brownlow and 300 games in him."

Sorry if I call BS - but that aside, it makes the point that players take time to develop - and it seems especially longer with us as they are pushed out for older players and made to wait their go ( right or wrong). They just need more time - BMac and Neeldy talk about it all the time on KROCK - it takes time for players to get better in systems etc. Il trust their takes on it. Now.. we nened to keep what we have ( Narkle, Chook, Cocky et al) and keep them pushing up.

GO Catters

No I did not say that at the time. But at the time I said Wow Bartel is going to be a great player. I'd say we all did.
Looking at Parfitt now I think Parfitt is a decent player . Good tackling pressure and can handle finals physicality reasonably well.
And that's about what it will be.
You can't say there is no difference.
We gave Murdoch 100+ games to develop, you can't tell me that during any of that time you didn't figure out he wasn't going places.

 

[dazbroncos]

No I did not say that at the time. But at the time I said Wow Bartel is going to be a great player. I'd say we all did.
Looking at Parfitt now I think Parfitt is a decent player . Good tackling pressure and can handle finals physicality reasonably well.
And that's about what it will be.
You can't say there is no difference.
We gave Murdoch 100+ games to develop, you can't tell me that during any of that time you didn't figure out he wasn't going places.

but thats the point.. you have to give them the time to either flame out and hit their ceiling or let them rise and carry on...


Go Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

but thats the point.. you have to give them the time to either flame out and hit their ceiling or let them rise and carry on...


Go Catters

I don't really think so. It's easy early doors to see what players strengths and weaknesses are.
Bartel's skills were his strength, weakness in leg speed but we didn't obsess over speed then.
Chapman was a tough nut and you could see the power in his snaps both legs from day one, but again we didn't obsess over speed.
Contstable's strengths are his ball finding ability and quick handball.
Weaknesses are endurance, kicking to a degree and leg speed.
After 100 games the endurance will improve but not the others.
Don't need 100 games to figure everything out. Endurance and body mass are the just the main things that improve.

 

[dazbroncos]

I don't really think so. It's easy early doors to see what players strengths and weaknesses are.
Bartel's skills were his strength, weakness in leg speed but we didn't obsess over speed then.
Chapman was a tough nut and you could see the power in his snaps both legs from day one, but again we didn't obsess over speed.
Contstable's strengths are his ball finding ability and quick handball.
Weaknesses are endurance, kicking to a degree and leg speed.
After 100 games the endurance will improve but not the others.
Don't need 100 games to figure everything out. Endurance and body mass are the just the main things that improve.

with all the answers then you best be kicking Wellsy off his chair and put the Spazz 2021 list on here as to who will make it and whom wont. After all, its easy early doors right?

GO Catters

 

[Hamingja]

Go on footywire and compare Parfitt and Bartel’s stats at the same age.

Comparing statistics from 2002 v 2020 is completely pointless.

Direct v. possession football. Rotations v. young players spending half the game on the bench. Professional under 18 system v. very raw kids coming into the AFL system.

 

[And_ROOS]

No I did not say that at the time. But at the time I said Wow Bartel is going to be a great player. I'd say we all did.
Looking at Parfitt now I think Parfitt is a decent player . Good tackling pressure and can handle finals physicality reasonably well.
And that's about what it will be.
You can't say there is no difference.
We gave Murdoch 100+ games to develop, you can't tell me that during any of that time you didn't figure out he wasn't going places.

Thing is I think we misused Murdoch and we should have trialed him off half back flank. Has pace, can tackle, would kill to have someone with a bit of speed and a long left foot off the HBF about now.

 

[cats_09]

Am I doing right? Having to say some abrasive comment at the end of every post now is the new way?
All those players had reached a very high level by 100 games.
Not many players in history could go past Hocking after any amount of games but by that stage they had the others covered.
Scarlett would of been All Australian by 100 games.

Scarlett's first AA was 2003 - 24 years old, 6 seasons & 91 games into his career.

He also only played 6 games across his first 2 seasons, and not sure if he was a world beater during those early years

Some players are a slower burn

 

[Spazz Cat]

with all the answers then you best be kicking Wellsy off his chair and put the Spazz 2021 list on here as to who will make it and whom wont. After all, its easy early doors right?

GO Catters

It is. Give me a bunch of examples where it's not.
Unfortunately Wells can't draft whoever he wants. Has had a single digit pick in who knows how long. Selwood?? I don't even know.
Has to take punts even on our higher picks cause we're always desperate to stay in contention. Has to go for the sliders every year.
And when players get to an AFL club and footy is now just running and more running. And then some more running.
A lot changes. Everything. And that's not even counting injuries.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Scarlett's first AA was 2003 - 24 years old, 6 seasons & 91 games into his career.

He also only played 6 games across his first 2 seasons, and not sure if he was a world beater during those early years

Some players are a slower burn

Exactly. He was miles ahead of where Tim Darcy ever was by 100 games.
Who is a slower burn than 100 games?

 

[Cataholic]

Geez, we need a good game of footy and a good win to calm some nerves I think.......

 

[goyoucatters]

Thing is I think we misused Murdoch and we should have trialed him off half back flank. Has pace, can tackle, would kill to have someone with a bit of speed and a long left foot off the HBF about now.

I think his breathtaking lack of awareness about the presence of would-be tacklers alongside his terrifying inability to do anything other than use his right leg to remain upright would have counted against him making a great success of it back there.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Thing is I think we misused Murdoch and we should have trialed him off half back flank. Has pace, can tackle, would kill to have someone with a bit of speed and a long left foot off the HBF about now.

I think we tried most things with Murdoch. Just didn't happen.
Still hope he does well at the Suns if he's still there.
I think it was Cat Empire that made an excellent point that people just wont accept.
It doesn't matter if even we had Wojo back in his prime, the ball use out of defence is by design. It's what we want.
Doesn't matter if we play Clark, Murdoch or any other player there. They're not going to go fast.

 

[Cataholic]

I think we tried most things with Murdoch. Just didn't happen.
Still hope he does well at the Suns if he's still there.
I think it was Cat Empire that made an excellent point that people just wont accept.
It doesn't matter if even we had Wojo back in his prime, the ball use out of defence is by design. It's what we want.
Doesn't matter if we play Clark, Murdoch or any other player there. They're not going to go fast.

Hence one of the reasons why we have a game plan that struggles to win finals.