Geelong - 0 Grand Final appearances from their last 7 finals series

[demondavey]

Could the Cat's game not work as well on the wider MCG?

2012 - MCG (Home) - Defeated by Fremantle
2013 - MCG (Away) - Defeated by Hawthorn
2014 - MCG (Home) - Defeated by North
2015 - no finals
2016 - MCG (Home) - Defeated by Sydney
2017 - Adelaide Oval - Defeated by Adelaide
2018 - MCG (Away) - Defeated by Melbourne

The ground is an issue. Geelong play a corridor game. Going end to end limiting movement out wide. If you want to play the G well look at Richmond. From HB they overlap with quick handballs and 20 metre kicks, then they go out to the wings and straight into CHF.

You simply have to use the space at the G. The way Geelong would counter that Richmond ploy (should they play them) is to not allow their press to get too defensive. Richmond look for gaps. Fill them. Keep a traditional wing position so when the ball goes out there, there are Geelong players waiting.

A kick behind the play will help any team counter Richmond, to an extent.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Why don’t people tackle Selwood properly?

IMO there's a difference between ducking into a player or trying to shrug/duck through/raise the tacklers arms - of which he does both. The eye test and the stats don't lie.

Having said that I have no issue with that latter action which is something he does the most (same with Puopolo). And that's the one that people paint as ducking for frees when I personally don't think it is.

It's just a smart way to get out of a tackle, you increase your chances to break the tackle and get off a clean disposal, or you get a free kick for high contact. NFL players do a similar thing in order to rush the QB - they will break the block by forcing the blockers' arms up, which affects their contact and allows for a better chance to break through.

That IMO is completely different to someone leading with their head.

 

[its free real estate]

It’s pretty obvious that Selwood has a technique to shrug out of a tackle, if his opposition haven’t worked out to tackle him by pinning his arms and holding on hard enough to allow him to escape then that’s their problem.

I don’t care what his technique is, the point is he explicitly goes into contests with the ability to win a free kick from head high tackles in his back pocket, and he knows this.

In finals, frees get paid less and his technique gets rewarded far less often. Which is why you see him so often griping at the umpires in big games.

My club has been the deliverer of two upsets of Geelong while he has been captain, and the defining feature of both has been he and members of his team whinging.

 

[Wojcinski]

I don’t care what his technique is, the point is he explicitly goes into contests with the ability to win a free kick from head high tackles in his back pocket, and he knows this.

In finals, frees get paid less and his technique gets rewarded far less often. Which is why you see him so often griping at the umpires in big games.

My club has been the deliverer of two upsets of Geelong while he has been captain, and the defining feature of both has been he and members of his team whinging.

Well hold onto those victories tight. Seems weird that you keep bringing it up but I'll keep an eye out for the Freo players hugging and high fiving each other the next time they lose a final.

 

[its free real estate]

Well hold onto those victories tight. Seems weird that you keep bringing it up but I'll keep an eye out for the Freo players hugging and high fiving each other the next time they lose a final.

I’m not holding onto those victories you bozo, I’m giving them as an example as to why the Cats are mentally weak in finals since Selwood became captain.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Does that alarming stat means it's the return of the Geelong handbags???

Seriously,I think the Kardina Park home ground advantage actually masks some of Geelong's deficiencies and they probably finished higher on the ladder than what their talent and experience actually is.

I actually suspext playing more games in Kardinia Park has affected Geelong's ability to win in September, especially at the G.

On the surface I agree with you. I would like to see a breakdown of games played at Kardinia Park and win loss % compared to other grounds. Would be interesting to see what the differential is...if any.

Any cats supporter have that handy?

 

[GhostofJimJess]

They should still win it this year. They've made it through that critical 4-week training bloc a month out from the finals which has traditionally impacted upon a team's onfield performance during that time, but stands them in good stead for September. I'm loading up on them if they go above $5.00.

 

[its free real estate]

I don’t buy the MCG vs Kardinia argument. Sure the MCG isn’t as great a home ground for them as Kardinia, but in 2013 they finished second and played a home final at Kardinia, then lost to one of the worst travelling sides in the league who had only won there once before.

Their style simply doesn’t stand up in the heat of the finals, and I think that very much rests on their lack of quality on field leadership.

 

[demondavey]

I don’t buy the MCG vs Kardinia argument. Sure the MCG isn’t as great a home ground for them as Kardinia, but in 2013 they finished second and played a home final at Kardinia, then lost to one of the worst travelling sides in the league who had only won there once before.

Their style simply doesn’t stand up in the heat of the finals, and I think that very much rests on their lack of quality on field leadership.

You’re simply hell bent on potting Selwood aren’t you?

 

[demondavey]

I don’t care what his technique is, the point is he explicitly goes into contests with the ability to win a free kick from head high tackles in his back pocket, and he knows this.

In finals, frees get paid less and his technique gets rewarded far less often. Which is why you see him so often griping at the umpires in big games.

My club has been the deliverer of two upsets of Geelong while he has been captain, and the defining feature of both has been he and members of his team whinging.

You don’t care what it is yet the AFL hasn’t called him for ducking? It’s an indictment on the umpires to pay less free kicks in finals just ‘because’. That’s why this sport is pretty amateur. A complete lack of consistency in so many areas.

If they give him a free during the home and away season then they’re acknowledging that it’s a free, changing it for finals for whatever reason they have just makes them look B grade and reactive. And it also renders your point mute, you know he shrugs out of a tackle and gets away with it, and if he does it in finals and you’re opinion changes because you’re watching a final then it says more about you’re ability to change the facts to fit your view.

 

[its free real estate]

You don’t care what it is yet the AFL hasn’t called him for ducking? It’s an indictment on the umpires to pay less free kicks in finals just ‘because’. That’s why this sport is pretty amateur. A complete lack of consistency in so many areas.

If they give him a free during the home and away season then they’re acknowledging that it’s a free, changing it for finals for whatever reason they have just makes them look B grade and reactive. And it also renders your point mute, you know he shrugs out of a tackle and gets away with it, and if he does it in finals and you’re opinion changes because you’re watching a final then it says more about you’re ability to change the facts to fit your view.

I never called it ducking. He wins the frees legitimately. He goes in with the intention to win frees, his technique for winning frees is part of his armoury for winning the ball.

In finals, when umpires err on the side on letting the game go, he doesn’t get the frees he usually gets and he cracks the shits.

 

[Scotland]

The main thing that's really notable about Geelong's finals record after 2011 is how good they have been in the H&A seasons. Scraping into 8th and losing a final isn't news.

Making the finals and not making the GF is one thing, making the top 4 four times in 5 years and not making the GF is a worry.

If my team lost a home SF, home QF, went out in straight sets, just missed the finals then lost a home PF I'd be filthy. You would expect a Victorian team to win most home finals against non-Victorian opponents.

 

[its free real estate]

The main thing that's really notable about Geelong's finals record after 2011 is how good they have been in the H&A seasons. Scraping into 8th and losing a final isn't news.

Making the finals and not making the GF is one thing, making the top 4 four times in 5 years and not making the GF is a worry.

If my team lost a home SF, home QF, went out in straight sets, just missed the finals then lost a home PF I'd be filthy. You would expect a Victorian team to win most home finals against non-Victorian opponents.

Making top two three times since 2011 as well.

In 2013 they came very close to going out in straights sets against both Freo and Port (who were travelling to the MCG for the second week in a row)

 

[Scotland]

Making top two three times since 2011 as well.

In 2013 they game very close to going out in straights sets against both Freo and Port (who were travelling to the MCG for the second week in a row)

They are a bit like the 2008-2010 Bulldogs, except the Bulldogs were never a top 2 side and the competition wasn't as strong from 2012 onward. We won 17 games in 2011 but were miiiiles off the top 2 sides.

 

[demondavey]

I never called it ducking. He wins the frees legitimately. He goes in with the intention to win frees, his technique for winning frees is part of his armoury for winning the ball.

In finals, when umpires err on the side on letting the game go, he doesn’t get the frees he usually gets and he cracks the s**ts.

Ok, ‘he wins the frees legitimately’ then he gets frustrated when the umpires display inconsistency in finals.

So do you blame him? Is that fair?

 

[Wojcinski]

Making top two three times since 2011 as well.

In 2013 they game very close to going out in straights sets against both Freo and Port (who were travelling to the MCG for the second week in a row)

and yet came within 5 points of the eventual premier at the MCG

 

[sobrave]

I think danger is a bit of a reflection on the team as a whole. Superstar and great attacking player... However, just doesn't put in the work defensively at all. How many times do you see him half arsed jogging when it comes time to run defensively? Ablett is another in the same category

 

[its free real estate]

Ok, ‘he wins the frees legitimately’ then he gets frustrated when the umpires display inconsistency in finals.

So do you blame him? Is that fair?

Every player gets adjudicated the same way in finals. It’s his reliance on frees as a get out (and his sense of entitlement to them) that is the problem.

 

[Wojcinski]

Every player gets adjudicated the same way in finals. It’s his reliance on frees as a get out (and his sense of entitlement to them) that is the problem.

lol so the whole reason Geelong hasn't won a flag in the past 8 years is Joel Selwood not getting enough free kicks in finals?

 

[demondavey]

Every player gets adjudicated the same way in finals. It’s his reliance on frees as a get out (and his sense of entitlement to them) that is the problem.

Yet you’ve just stated he wins them legitimately? So as I asked you, is it fair that the rules get re shaped for finals to ‘adjudicate every player the same way’?

 

[its free real estate]

Yet you’ve just stated he wins them legitimately? So as I asked you, is it fair that the rules get re shaped for finals to ‘adjudicate every player the same way’?

I don’t care about whether it is fair, it is what it is.

 

[demondavey]

I don’t care about whether it is fair, it is what it is.

Right, so you can’t answer it, which essentially means that your position is not neutral, it’s biased because you’ve acknowledged that Selwood is given legitimate free kicks during the HA season, yet come finals they aren’t paid. A neutral person with your opinion would say that he should also receive those free kicks because he is given them in the regular season, not that he whinges in finals because he isn’t given them.

If you actually held true to your opinion you’d acknowledge the gross inconsistencies and come to the conclusion that he isn’t doing anything differently, so therefore why should your opinion of him differ?

 

[JackFlash]

Geelong have always under achieved even during the glory years, they should've won 5 in a row with that team. The past seven years is the work of a club just happy to be a part of it all, they did a great job and didn't fall over in the late 90's, won a few flags and now they are back to the acceptance of mediocrity. This year they surprised everybody and most supporters, but the difference in their form pre and post BYE is astonishing. (Did they just forget how to play?) Maybe they were a mid table team all along? The acid test comes in two weeks time where they will be placed in a precarious position up at the Gabba, lose that game by a lot and they could miss the top 2. Their form 3 weeks out from finals is absymal and September will be a total embarrassment unless we see another miracle? They are going to lose Tim Kelly, Ablett might retire and Joel Selwood is 32 in 2020! I guess that's the way the "cookie" crumbles...

 

[its free real estate]

Right, so you can’t answer it, which essentially means that your position is not neutral, it’s biased because you’ve acknowledged that Selwood is given legitimate free kicks during the HA season, yet come finals they aren’t paid. A neutral person with your opinion would say that he should also receive those free kicks because he is given them in the regular season, not that he whinges in finals because he isn’t given them.

If you actually held true to your opinion you’d acknowledge the gross inconsistencies and come to the conclusion that he isn’t doing anything differently, so therefore why should your opinion of him differ?

My opinion is that the best leaders adjust to the circumstances as they change and don’t carry on as if they are entitled when things don’t go their way. However fair or unfair that is.

 

[demondavey]

My opinion is that the best leaders adjust to the circumstances as they change and don’t carry on as if they are entitled when things don’t go their way. However fair or unfair that is.

Again, you can’t answer it. You’ll just use a cliched reply to wriggle around. It just proves your input to this thread is void due to your inability to argue rationally due to a bias.