Play Nice Geelong home final at GHMBA Stadium, is this an unfair advantage?

[Gone Critical]

Yeah a Gold Coast supporters probably live closer to the beach and are able to swim there 9 months of the year. so Before you start complaining think about that.

Not complaining just pointing out the disadvantage of Friday night games at the G for Geelong supporters based in Geelong is balanced by 9 home games that are easy to get to. Do you disagree?

 

[Gone Critical]

Your argument would sit fine with me if it was not for the likes of GC and GWS getting to play "home" finals on their "home" grounds, not at the Gabba , SCG, Olympic Stadium, but on their home grounds. That is where the system is stuffed. Either play finals at the largest ground in the respective states or at the "home" ground. The AFL is having it both ways. It knows it is and it pretends there is nothing to see.

What needs fixing first, probably by the AFL not Geelong, is that all clubs must have the opportunity to play at GMHBA in the H&A season. As it stands GMHBA is the only stadium that can be used in finals that some clubs, like Collingwood, are never fixtured to play on. That needs to be fixed before Geelongs argument to have home finals as a routine is granted

Do any Geelong supporters disagree with this premise?

 

[romeohwho]

What needs fixing first, probably by the AFL not Geelong, is that all clubs must have the opportunity to play at GMHBA in the H&A season. As it stands GMHBA is the only stadium that can be used in finals that some clubs, like Collingwood, are never fixtured to play on. That needs to be fixed before Geelongs argument to have home finals as a routine is granted

Do any Geelong supporters disagree with this premise?

Of course not- You are very welcome to come and play down there. I assume your club wouldn’t agree to it though. Did you miss the fuss Richmond made in 2017 about having to play our home game at K.Park -lol it was something to behold. But yep-it’s a good suggestion.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Can you have a sensible discussion with someone who makes the mythological claim that the G is ‘shared’ by all the clubs in Victoria though? This line that the big co-tenants are pushing is just bollocks. Let’s get some accuracy into the discussion.

It actually pretty much is though.

Firstly the AFL maintain complete domination of the fixture, and they openly say they only consider club preferences - they are the ultimate arbiters of who plays where. As the AFL have a contract with the MCC to play X Games at the G, and they own Marvel, good luck trying to tell them you want games at PP (for example)

Secondly, the two stadia have pretty much stopped signing deals with clubs directly, because of the above. Outside Essendon, Collingwood, and I think Carlton, the rest of us go where the AFL tell us.

Reality is for my club, we are only a MCG tenant club because the AFL is happy for that to be the case. Personally I expect all Melbourne based clubs to lose a right to a home ground one day, with the AFL scheduling you at the G or Marvel based upon their own priorities

 

[romeohwho]

It actually pretty much is though.

Firstly the AFL maintain complete domination of the fixture, and they openly say they only consider club preferences - they are the ultimate arbiters of who plays where. As the AFL have a contract with the MCC to play X Games at the G, and they own Marvel, good luck trying to tell them you want games at PP (for example)

Secondly, the two stadia have pretty much stopped signing deals with clubs directly, because of the above. Outside Essendon, Collingwood, and I think Carlton, the rest of us go where the AFL tell us.

Reality is for my club, we are only a MCG tenant club because the AFL is happy for that to be the case. Personally I expect all Melbourne based clubs to lose a right to a home ground one day, with the AFL scheduling you at the G or Marvel based upon their own priorities

Well, Ned there is sharing and sharing.
Do you think that when a team that plays there 2 times in a year, is against a team that plays there 14 times a year, its on an equal footing?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Well, Ned there is sharing and sharing.
Do you think that when a team that plays there 2 times in a year, is against a team that plays there 14 times a year, its on an equal footing?

There is nothing equal about it. It's all about what the AFL want

Do you think I want to play the dogs and Kangas "at home" at Marvel?

AFL forces all mcg tenant clubs to marvel against their will. They banned the dogs from Kat Park. They strong arm financially weak clubs to host Port at Shanghai.

What part of any of this sounds like an organisation who gives two *s about fair?

 

[kidkenobi]

You're kinda good at not reading my posts ay? lol I can see you're passionate in your defence of Geelong which is great! I am still confused why but I will give you one more metaphor and then I will give up.

Geelong kick with the wind in Q1.
Collingwood kick with the wind in Q2.

Is that fair? Yes or no?

Geelong kick with the wind in Q1.
Geelong kick with the wind in Q2.

Is that fair? Yes or no.

The point everyone except Geelong people and yourself refuse to acknowledge is the distinct advantage that Geelong get during the year that provides them with an inflated ladder position.

The advantage comes from:

1. Minimal travel interstate, minimal hotel rooms, minimal time on planes (Which all interstate sides contend with)
2. A home ground that is not shared by 8 other teams. Which results in 2 or 3 extra games with a home ground advantage during the year. (unlike any other Victorian club)
3. A grand final in a venue they play at least a few games at during the year and is in their same state so no travel.

Every other team in the league, interstate or otherwise have pros and cons of their geographic position and stadium arrangement which I have already outlined in this thread multiple times.

Only ONE club in the league enjoys all the benefits of a non victorian club during the year with the ADVANTAGE of a home stadium similar to interstate clubs. The benefits of both.

Are you following???

Therefore!!! Finally lol

Therefore. Given they have a distinct advantage over every other team in the league for the regular season it is only fair this advantage is not compounded into the finals series as then it would just be an insane advantage.

I am very much doubting you will have followed this again so I am going to ignore all Victorian clubs and just discuss your club Sydney.

Sydney v Geelong!!! Lets do it...

Sydney get a home ground✔. So do Geelong.✔
Sydney have to travel every second week and get on planes✖ ....Unlike Geelong ✔
Sydney have to travel interstate for the GF✖. Geelong play the GF on a ground they've played at least a few times during the year and can sleep in Mogs creek the night before.✔
Sydney get home finals ✔. Geelong do not. ✖

Do you see what your lobbying for? The only downside for Geelong is to be penalised with the home finals because in every other case they enjoy the benefits of being some sort of Victorian-Interstate Super Hybrid.

Right now there is balance in the force. Stop trying to bring it to the dark side.

Thats the last go at it for me haha If you still can't understand it I don't know what to do.

The one thing your genius analysis is missing is the fact that Geelong is not Melbourne. Yes they are in a unique situation because they are the only Victorian side outside of Melbourne, but there's no one to blame for that is there? It is what it is. If Ballarat get an AFL team one day, should they play all their games in Melbourne too? Then what's the point of being Ballarat? Or being Geelong? Or having the AFL?

Hawthorn has their own ground in Tassie that only they play on, so which is the cheat ground? Geelong playing in their home town like they have for 160 years? Or Hawthorn exclusively playing home games on their own ground in another state that has absolutely nothing to do with them?

 

[Back One Out]

Its been bubbling along for several years now
GFC acknowledges that before the redevelopment the Geelong stadium was not finals worthy.

Yeah, this is what I mean. For 120 years, there was never any complaints about the "unfairness" of playing finals at the MCG (or Waverley). It was just accepted by everyone. Nobody gave a s**t. Everyone was actually HAPPY to play on the big grounds in front of huge crowds. That was what made it FINALS FOOTY. Everyone looked forward to it: players, coaches, fans... But now Geelong have redeveloped their ground and they're trying to grab any competitive advantage they can, they're suddenly bleating about the "unfairness" of MCG finals.

Laughable.

Now it is a 35,ooo stadium

35,000? That isn't right. The Cats haven't yet been able to get 32,000 into the ground. Sellout games have produced crowds of 31,669... 31,373... 31,265... 31,125...

that is significantly bigger than GWS's stadium, capacity wise.

Significantly bigger?!? LOL

31,600 is not "significantly bigger" than the Giants Stadium capacity of 24,000

I tell you something which is "significantly bigger" however... The ticket demand for a GWS final in Sydney compared to a Geelong final here in Victoria. The previous 3 finals between Geelong v Collingwood have drawn crowds of 95,000, 87,000 and 98,000. You want to lock out 63,000 people and play in front of a crowd of 32,000 just so you can skate your way through to a Grand Final with a home ground advantage??? You squib...

It's highly doubtful the Giants could fill the 40,000 capacity SCG for one of their finals, even if they played a big Vic team. May as well play it at the 24,000 capacity Giants stadium and pack the joint out and create some buzz & tradition for the new franchise. Maybe they'll attract a few new fans in the process and get more than 7,000 people to their regular home games.

It has only been in recent years that GWS has been a "force" in the competition, and it was only in recent years that the AFL said if GWS earns a home final they get to play it on their home ground. Tell me, is that not unfair??

Yeah, you're bringing in red herring arguments about GWS because it suits your cause. It's not a like for like comparison between Victorian finals and non-Victorian finals. There is no way around the fact that non-Victorians receive "home" finals and must travel interstate for their "away" finals. But for finals here in Victoria, they have always been played at the largest capacity venues, irrespective of any so-called "home ground advantage" to Melbourne or Richmond.

From 1902 to 2019, we've had MCG finals (100,000 capacity)
From 1972 to 1991, we had Waverley finals (75,000 capacity)
From 2000 to 2007, we occasionally had one final in week 1 at Marvel Stadium (50,000 capacity)

Maybe if you get Frank Costa to donate all his money for a new stadium upgrade and increase the capacity to 60,000 and you might have a better argument.

 

[romeohwho]

There is nothing equal about it. It's all about what the AFL want

Do you think I want to play the dogs and Kangas "at home" at Marvel?

AFL forces all mcg tenant clubs to marvel against their will. They banned the dogs from Kat Park. They strong arm financially weak clubs to host Port at Shanghai.

What part of any of this sounds like an organisation who gives two fu**s about fair?

Haha-yep-that’s probably what it all comes down too!

 

[Sttew]

35,000? That isn't right. The Cats haven't yet been able to get 32,000 into the ground. Sellout games have produced crowds of 31,669... 31,373... 31,265... 31,125...

Significantly bigger?!? LOL

31,600 is not "significantly bigger" than the Giants Stadium capacity of 24,000

The official capacity of GMHBA is 36,000. This includes standing room in the Ablett Terrace. That is 33% more than Spotless. That is significant. Even if you take the 31,600 that is still 24%, again significant in my eyes.

As for locking out supporters of the opposition, I don't give a flying *! If my team finishes on top and in so doing earns a home final, then that's what it SHOULD be. But I know the AFL will never allow that to happen, so its a moot point.

 

[gutsroy]

Very tongue in cheek, but some of the historical stuff was interesting:

Does the home-ground 'advantage' really matter in finals footy?

The disadvantage non-Victorian teams have supposedly experienced in MCG grand finals is like citing the disadvantage a young George Clooney had finding a dinner date, Richard Hinds says.

mobile.abc.net.au

 

[Back One Out]

The official capacity of GMHBA is 36,000. This includes standing room in the Ablett Terrace. That is 33% more than Spotless. That is significant. Even if you take the 31,600 that is still 24%, again significant in my eyes.

Where are you getting this extra 4,000 from?

Geelong's crowds have ranged from 29,000 to 31,600 since the redevelopment. Many of them, sell out games
You tell me where these 4,000 empty seats & standing room positions were located

As for locking out supporters of the opposition, I don't give a flying fu**! If my team finishes on top and in so doing earns a home final, then that's what it SHOULD be. But I know the AFL will never allow that to happen, so its a moot point.

Eh, you're being a moron. Deliberately so because this is the new Geelong agenda
It's laughable mate. You are making asses of yourselves.

There is no such thing as "home" finals when 2 Victorian teams meet each other. Get over it.

Get yourself a 60,000 capacity stadium and maybe your case would be more solid, but it won't happen.

 

[10571z]

Why didn’t the pies play finals at Victoria Park?!??!!

For exactly the same reason... because more fans can go the MCG. Stfu whingers

 

[Gone Critical]

Of course not- You are very welcome to come and play down there. I assume your club wouldn’t agree to it though. Did you miss the fuss Richmond made in 2017 about having to play our home game at K.Park -lol it was something to behold. But yep-it’s a good suggestion.

I think our discussion is based on the notion of what is fairest and we are being hypothetical. There is little chance the AFL or Geelong and Collingwood for that matter have a great interest in fairness.

I am sure Collingwood would kick up about the trip to GMHBA and despite some supporters claims to the contrary I think the current H&A arrangements suit Geelong just fine. Sellout games at GMHBA haven’t ever reached 32000 so far and I would like to see the data saying Geelong do as well financially from that as they do from a blockbuster at MCG. If you do it just shows how the powers that be have set Geelong up to such advantage for home games in regard to their stadium deal.

9 games at GMHBA and then the 5-6 games you get at the MCG is a fantastic set up both financially and for footy benefit. Those games at the G are gold for a team wanting to do well in Sept.

The arguments about fair run on different lines. Under the current set up Geelong get a massive leg up if they were to play this week at GMHBA. Much more so than the average home ground advantage in finals. I understand the argument that you don’t receive a home ground advantage on the G but it has been your “home” ground against Collingwood for a long time now. There is no arrangement possible currently that really adequately addresses fair.

 

[Gone Critical]

As for locking out supporters of the opposition, I don't give a flying fu**! If my team finishes on top and in so doing earns a home final, then that's what it SHOULD be. But I know the AFL will never allow that to happen, so its a moot point.

You wouldn’t be locking out opposition supporters only. Geelong and Collingwood supporters would have equal access to tickets. The ground would be neutral from a support point of view and 10,000s of members from both sides would miss out compared to a game at the G.

 

[parano1a]

As for locking out supporters of the opposition, I don't give a flying fu**! If my team finishes on top and in so doing earns a home final, then that's what it SHOULD be.

You don't get it. A final is not a home game, it is a special event hosted by the AFL. Supporters from both teams need to be given equal opportunities to buy a ticket and attend, no matter where the game is played. If the Geelong v Collingwood Qualifying Final was at GMHBA, approx 13,000 tickets would be allocated to Geelong members, 13,000 to Collingwood members, and the rest to officials/corporates. This would disadvantage members of both clubs.

 

[Sttew]

You don't get it. A final is not a home game, it is a special event hosted by the AFL. Supporters from both teams need to be given equal opportunities to buy a ticket and attend, no matter where the game is played. If the Geelong v Collingwood Qualifying Final was at GMHBA, approx 13,000 tickets would be allocated to Geelong members, 13,000 to Collingwood members, and the rest to officials/corporates. This would disadvantage members of both clubs.

I get it and not in my wildest dreams would I expect Geelong to play a final against a Melbourne team at Geelong.

 

[Draft Pick]

You don't get it. A final is not a home game, it is a special event hosted by the AFL. Supporters from both teams need to be given equal opportunities to buy a ticket and attend, no matter where the game is played. If the Geelong v Collingwood Qualifying Final was at GMHBA, approx 13,000 tickets would be allocated to Geelong members, 13,000 to Collingwood members, and the rest to officials/corporates. This would disadvantage members of both clubs.

Other than the GF there is no allocation to clubs for the other finals. Members of the two competing clubs get first access on a first come first serve basis.

Collingwood members could get 90 percent of the tickets in theory.

This is what the Geelong hierarchy refuse to address. Their home ground advantage would be nullified to a large degree.

 

[docks]

Well ticket sales have commenced and the game is at the MCG. There is no point whinging any more cats supporters so start making those complicated arrangements to get to the MCG.

 

[Back One Out]

This has been said many times; it’s because it was allowed in 2013. Before that, it wasn’t a thing, was never a thing, but then the AFL allowed it once and it became a issue. If they can do it then, why not always?

For f**k's sake... The 2013 Kardinia Park final occurred out of neccessity

It was Week 1 of the Finals Series and there were four games to be played here in Victoria

(1) Hawthorn v (4) Sydney
(2) Geelong v (3) Fremantle
(5) Richmond v (9) Carlton
(6) Collingwood v (7) Port Adelaide

This was before the invention of the weekend rest and Thursday night finals
The AFL had to make a decision about which three finals would be played at the MCG on Friday, Saturday and Sunday

The game with the lowest ticket demand was Geel v Freo. The choice was to play it at Marvel Stadium on a Saturday afternoon in front of 35,000 with empty seats everywhere, or at Kardinia Park in front of a packed house of 32,500. Wisely they chose the latter. If a similar situation should arise in the future with 4 Vic finals and Geelong was drawn to play GWS, Port, Gold Coast or Fremantle, then the AFL would probably give you another final at Kardinia Park.

But this idea that Geelong "deserves" a final at Kardinia Park and that 50-60,000 fans should be locked out is just absurd. It's just flat-out trolling from the GFC. Kudos if all of you are posting about this as a wind-up, but I don't think you are. I think many of you are actually serious about it, all dancing to the club's tune and acting like lemmings. You're actually making asses of yourselves. The football world is laughing at you.

 

[blue harvest]

Other than the GF there is no allocation to clubs for the other finals. Members of the two competing clubs get first access on a first come first serve basis.

Collingwood members could get 90 percent of the tickets in theory.

This is what the Geelong hierarchy refuse to address. Their home ground advantage would be nullified to a large degree.

Actually there are club allocations, it's not first in first served.
The AFL calculates the allocations on membership numbers and expected demand.
If sales are not progressing as originally thought they can tweak the allocations. Any unused allocations go into the public sale.
But yes, the crowd advantage the Cats normally get down there would be gone against a Vic club.

 

[JohnZ]

Geelong's crowds have ranged from 29,000 to 31,600 since the redevelopment. Many of them, sell out games
You tell me where these 4,000 empty seats & standing room positions were located

A sellout means that every seat was sold. If members don't turn up and re-sell, it's still a sellout.

Additionally, the club can get extra people in if they double sell the function rooms behind the seating area on Level C. In the H+A they don't do this, but for finals they could.

 

[blue harvest]

CEO admitted last year capacity for footy was 34k.
That 36k figure that gets bandied around includes function/dining spaces which aren't used to watch football.

 

[Back One Out]

What needs fixing first, probably by the AFL not Geelong, is that all clubs must have the opportunity to play at GMHBA in the H&A season. As it stands GMHBA is the only stadium that can be used in finals that some clubs, like Collingwood, are never fixtured to play on. That needs to be fixed before Geelongs argument to have home finals as a routine is granted

Geelong F.C. also needs to increase the capacity of GHMBA Stadium to more than 60,000, so that 30,000 footy goers aren't deprived of seeing their team play a final.

It's bad enough we have the Grand Final ticketing shenanigans with so many club members missing out

Who in their right mind would want to see a similar occurrence for any of the lead-up finals when we have a 100,000 seat stadium not being used?

Insanity.

Big Footy = Big Muppetry.

 

[Back One Out]

It makes me laugh when I read the localised Geelong fans excuse of not wanting to make the 60 minute trip for a "home" game

In America, the birthplace of "home" playoffs, many of the football teams play at stadiums built way out in Shiitsburb, one hour's drive from the city centre.