Autopsy Geelong leaves Sydney with 2 points - who wants to watch the replay...

[Catsace]

Defining his role is important.
He has contributed to our wins and draws this year by his marking and goals.
He needs to be persevered with as he is already productive and has X Factor.
I'm all for him staying in as long as possible, although he could also be a great sub.

Ollie would be a good sub, as he can come in and impact with a goal or two, he kicked 4 for the Pies in a game last year as a sub too.

Bowes i reckon needs time to 'work into' a game, so not sure he's the best option for that role.

Ollie's shot when about 40 out that flayed off the boot and hit the right behind post was a costly miss, from that point onwards the Swans seemed to gain control of possession. Very lucky to get the draw, i mean the Swans had three shots from 'Nick Davis' position in the last few moments and scored two behinds and an OOF...Robbie Fox twice spilled the bananas over the boundary line and he also managed to hit the post from the goal square too.

All round we were just totally off the game, and were lucky to play the Swans who probably had the worlds worst conversion...their 'expected score' would surely be close to double what they actually got with 6.18.54.

I do feel we need to put that in the vault and bury it in cement, but learn lessons from it insofar as how to improve from here on in. 7-7-1, on the cusp of contention. Must say, that statistic where Geelong has two points from the six games against sides 10th-15th is absolutely galling, very un-Geelong like, although the Blues in Rd 2 would have still had confidence, and our game against the Suns was about as bad as last night's game. And when Cotchin kicks three goals against you, it's absolute blue moon material.

Just need to give the young mids more time, that's the engine room of successful sides. A post highlighting Geelong's ball getting power in the halcyon days compared to today's sparse offerings. We need to get ball hunters in the guts to give our forwards first use and take pressure off the defenders.

 

[catempire]

Yeah the one against King is the one that sticks in my mind. Could be more of a theoretical weakness given so few teams have a double combo up front like that.

In any event, it’s certainly not something that justifies playing Ratugolea, of itself.

 

[Catsace]

Sav kicks the ball like Parfitt - need one say more?

Couple of Mick Mansfield/Sean Simpson specials among his hoofs into the sky. Sadly Geelong couldn't even halve the contest despite the aeons the ball was in the air for with them.

 

[allrighty]

I think people tend to look at Henry’s size and think he can’t take the bigger key forwards. His record shows very few occasions where they have got a hold of him. One against King stands out and I can’t remember any others really.

Strong legs and core. Hard to move

 

[Smedts_2]

Am I alone in thinking that we look like a team that hasn’t had a consistent line up all year? I still think with a little more consistent availability at the selection table we can win it this year.

 

[Vdubs]

Am I alone in thinking that we look like a team that hasn’t had a consistent line up all year?

I still think with a little more consistent availability at the selection table we can win it this year.

1. Yes, for sure.
2. Time will tell.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

The rest of the round, Essendon v Port (Port should win), Carlton v Hawthorn and St Kilda v WC. No teams below us can leapfrog us, and only teams above us can win - so we'll still be in 9th come next round.

In Round 17:

We then play North - should win
Crows play Bombers - Crows should win
Melb play Saints - Dees should win

Puts us back in the 8 next round with 7 rounds to go

Yep and long term i dont see any of the sides below us making the 8.
Freo have major issues, GC always drop off late in the year, rich are cooked. Sydney are the only side below us that has the talent to make a run though but its unlikely.
So we only need one of adel, ess, stk or the dogs to drop away for us to make it.
The first 2 are very young sides, stk are on the slide and we match up very well against the dogs which means if our game vs them is a virtual elim final im confident.

We arent playing well but its not hard to see a scenario in which we make the 8.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

First time at the SCG.... and i was underwhelmed.

The game was hardly a great reflection on what it might be like at the ground. Im sure those that are used to ground highly value it but for the ground in the "Biggest" market... it decidely left me with the feeling of a menagerie of inconsistency. Imo , if it was a ground in another market ..it would have refurbished or rebuilt as has been done in WA and SA. Mehhhhh.

Maybe the game influenced my thoughts on the place.

Simply ...it looked like we were off from minute 1 ... double handling and the look of not really "on" for the game. Watching the CS presser I get the feeling he was like the group was neither up for the contest or overly fussed about working hard to win.

To me the Swans were very much about stopping our short possessions... and we were not willing to change or risk long kicks. Hawk need delivery. OH is not taking overhead marks... and Rohan is yet to really play to his best V the Swans.

Down back Sav look like a nun at a Hells angels picnic and Stewart seems a little less cool in a crisis.

Really there is no way were should have been anywhere near winning this game. Swans appalling conversion was the only reason we were close enough to almost pinch it.

We will have to beat much better opponents that the bloods if this year is to amount to anything. If its not going to happen ..then I hold not grudges... . We won a flag. If thats it then so be it. The reaction to this game will give us an idea of what happens the rest of the year.

Just out of interest - where abouts did you sit

I havent been their for many years - so they may have wrecked it - but i went to stacks of game their - both football and cricket - about 7-8 West Indian wickets fell - and Gordon Greenidge brought up his 100 on the Sunday - brilliant viewing - Bradman Concourse - half forward flank outer side - Paddington end - a great spot to view from - and i allways thought it was a beautiful ground

Ablett snr rattled on 4-5 goals early in the last qtr to have 14 on the board - with a good 10 minutes to go - and thus Fred Fannings long standing record looked in some doubt - Ablett had the front position - and Rod Carter was standing very close behind - and Ablett just continually kept throwing his elbows back into Carters stomach and Carter kept hitting Ablett with kidney punches - then the siren rang and they smiled and shook hands - and i had a birds eye view of it- hah

 

[cats_09]

 

[allrighty]

I originally thought Sav down back would at the very least put the wind up the opposition forwards with the ball coming in,I'm now not sure it hasn't backfire and and it's our own boys worrying about where he is.

Like I said some weeks ago I would be worried about Sav crashing into me with eyes for the ball and nothing else. A wrecking ball

 

[allrighty]

I think you've said it every week this season. Not sure how many injuries he's caused but it hasn't felt like 12 (weeks he's played).

Yeah well done you. I have said it a couple of times a few weeks ago.

But anyway why bother about facts eh? You got a rise. Well done, you can go to bed now.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

I was hoping we'd be on a 4 game winning streak heading to the Gabba but it wasn't meant to be.

4 of our next 5 games are at KP, better sort ourselves out in that time if we do something comes finals time this year. Cohesion, form confidence or whatever else we think we need. If we're lucky we might even have Guthrie back by that time and Menegola.

 

[Play it Sam]

Happy to see sanity prevailed with Closey, because they believe he tried to soften the tackle- therefore honoured duty of care.
What baloney. They are virtually airborne, where is the moment of deciding to lay off the giant ball hog ?
Of course this backs the umpire not making a decision either way.
We know the game got away from him in that moment, and I hope his peers have his guts for garters.

 

[Shadow89]

Happy to see sanity prevailed with Closey, because they believe he tried to soften the tackle- therefore honoured duty of care.
What baloney. They are virtually airborne, where is the moment of deciding to lay off the giant ball hog ?
Of course this backs the umpire not making a decision either way.
We know the game got away from him in that moment, and I hope his peers have his guts for garters.

Closey gets off and Stewart not even cited, there might be hope for the game just yet! Huzzah!

 

[cats_09]

Closey gets off and Stewart not even cited, there might be hope for the game just yet! Huzzah!

The Stewart tackle I don't even understand why some in the media were suggesting he should be in trouble

I was expecting an explanation though for the Duncan/Blakey bump in the first quarter - I know there was no negative intent from Mitch, but he did look close to accidentally clipping him high and it was hard to tell on the replays shown if he did or not

Maybe the Close tackle saved him

 

[juzcat]

I think it was kind of a dickish tactic by you guys to start picking up the goal posts and moving them every single time the Swans were going for goal.

First laugh I got from that game. Thanks!

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[juzcat]

One player who for me who has gotten off lightly for his performances this year is Zuthrie. Has been decidedly average at best. Had a good game defensively against Port (absolutely butchered it by foot though) and not too much more to report after that. Was garbage last week until the last quarter when he kicked that goal. Was pathetic against GWS. Not good again last night. After being there last night I was surprised at how unaccountable he is as a defender. Soft, slow, can’t stick a tackle, guards space but very ordinary at shutting down his opponent. He was good last year when the system was firing but as soon as it starts to falter he’s seriously exposed. An icing on the cake player but clearly not one to stand up when the chips are down.
He will keep getting games as there really is no pressure from others for his spot and it has become a serious problem IMO

Actually do we have any up and foming half back flankers in the wings?

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[Play it Sam]

Actually do we have any up and foming half back flankers in the wings?

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Oisin Mullin maybe.
Pretty sure Zuthrie won't get supplanted though, there are more question marks over others.

 

[Finknottle]

The Swans had a game plan for Geelong that they executed well. Play-on, move the ball through the middle whenever possible, lower the eyes to hit up leading forwards. It's the way to destroy Geelong's zone. While Geelong players were rushing to set up their zone the Swans were already slicing through the holes by utilising their unmanned players whose opponents were trying to guard space. Geelong's zone just doesn't work against teams that move the ball quickly.

 

[Play it Sam]

Yep and long term i dont see any of the sides below us making the 8.
Freo have major issues, GC always drop off late in the year, rich are cooked. Sydney are the only side below us that has the talent to make a run though but its unlikely.
So we only need one of adel, ess, stk or the dogs to drop away for us to make it.
The first 2 are very young sides, stk are on the slide and we match up very well against the dogs which means if our game vs them is a virtual elim final im confident.

We arent playing well but its not hard to see a scenario in which we make the 8.

Let's hope it was the draw we had to have to turn the corner. Scotty gets his wish to drag them up, and they have a challenge.
Beggars belief really after the golden charm GF day, no one would have believed we'd be dependent upon others failing, or the woeful run with injuries. As Joel said, they are hard to win.
We're still hanging in though, and I'm finding it harder not to let it affect my footy tips by picking against the preferred losers!

 

[Play it Sam]

The Swans had a game plan for Geelong that they executed well. Play-on, move the ball through the middle whenever possible, lower the eyes to hit up leading forwards. It's the way to destroy Geelong's zone. While Geelong players were rushing to set up their zone the Swans were already slicing through the holes by utilising their unmanned players whose opponents were trying to guard space. Geelong's zone just doesn't work against teams that move the ball quickly.

Yep, well explained. Plus they tried on the short game for a bit, and looked hell faster.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Happy to see sanity prevailed with Closey, because they believe he tried to soften the tackle- therefore honoured duty of care.
What baloney. They are virtually airborne, where is the moment of deciding to lay off the giant ball hog ?
Of course this backs the umpire not making a decision either way.
We know the game got away from him in that moment, and I hope his peers have his guts for garters.

It should have been holding the ball though.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Actually do we have any up and foming half back flankers in the wings?

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Mullin, but I'd put him in for Bews and leave Zuth in

 

[Lana]

To the bolded: it actually is.

To the italised: wishy washy nonsense. Check inside 50 marks and scoring shots conceded every single game.

Zuthrie and Bews being lead a merry dance, having less effective rebounders (Tuohy and Duncan are turning the ball over a lot more) and Kolo + SDK being out of sorts are all significant factors exacerbated by a struggling midfield.

I'm not even against Sav missing out when we have the right personnel available. The misdiagnosis of it being one of the major issues is a classic case of confirmation bias. A few are starting it with Ollie Henry as well. Dangerfield and Holmes giving us 8/10 performances rather than 3/10 will steady the ship far quicker than a structural change in defence.

The inside 50 conceded and consequently Marks inside 50 conceded were directly caused by the structural imbalance, in affect we were playing 17 on 18 when we were trying to attack from D50. Having the extra tall defender robbed us of an avenue moving the ball from D50, we kept turning over the ball one kick from D50. Without Cameron and with Duncan and Smith being weak in the air, their keys had a lot less ground to cover, historically we used Blicavs, Menegola and a fit Dangerfield to be provide those extra outlets from a long D50 kick, In theory Sav should have been available to receive these bailout kicks but he underperform we when his on the offensive side of a marking contest relative to his size and athleticism and is useless when it gets brought to ground, in the cases we he would make it, he is offensively limited, which makes his kick or the next kick in the chain easier to be intercepted. All night they found space in that half distant kick hitting up a target 40 metres out, meaning we were getting burnt on the lead after a turnover.

Ultimately to win games teams can either win it back at the contest or win it back on the intercept, good teams do both. Teams that rely on interception (especially defensive marking interception) need to move the ball better than those that win it at the contest.

With the team as selected we were always going to struggle to win it at the contest, we have a too many missing/underdone. Our intercept game was non-functional for the first half on the match, in theory Sav should supercharge our intercepting being a tall athletic key defender who plays as a +1 positionally, in practice they played around him and he killed our ball movement efficiency. He was a non factor for all but a couple of desperate moments just before he was subbed off.

Beyond blaming Sav for all of our problems, we do need more from our midfield group. I want to pull Holmes out of the inside midfield rotations, he doesn't get clean use of the ball around the stoppage. He does his best work running into space and kicking long. I want us to treat him as an Issac Smith style winger. Last year his fat side running was such a difference making, he'd go from being a plus 1 in defensive to providing an outlet for a switch in a blink of an eye. They shouldn't have selected Danger, he is clearly still hampered by injury, we would have been better without him in his current condition. With O'Connor out, they may have felt that they were light on options to pull in there. We also need to get another marking option in transition, not sure if Menegola can still be that player, if he can't then give Knevitt a shot, he was starting to build form before we dumped him to the VFL, he is also getting more inside mid time at VFL level than he was previously.

Structurally, I don't like having O.Henry, Rohan and Stengle in the same team, too many high impact low possession type forwards. I'm worried that Stengle is carrying an injury, there are times early in games were he seems gassed after a quick play and O'Henry has to get move involved in general, too much tunnel vision over his finishing, our players are generally more well rounded. One of those three has to get on their bike and play a lot higher up the ground especially in the absence of Cameron.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Let's hope it was the draw we had to have to turn the corner. Scotty gets his wish to drag them up, and they have a challenge.
Beggars belief really after the golden charm GF day, no one would have believed we'd be dependent upon others failing, or the woeful run with injuries. As Joel said, they are hard to win.
We're still hanging in though, and I'm finding it harder not to let it affect my footy tips by picking against the preferred losers!

There's a lot of "loss we had to have" in that. The vfl also showed a win they had to have.

Purely merit based decisions, not even a "play the kids" move and we can make some changes like Smith out for Knevitt. Touhy and Duncan need rest and I'd throw Dempsey in to cover for a run of 2-3 games in the starting 22. Given a few weeks to build fitness I would expect Neale to put pressure on. MOC can come in, we have licence to chuck Sav in the 2s, and I'd like to see Mullin come back.

I feel like putting our best team forward for this year and next are mostly aligned in decision points