Review Good/Bad vs Richmond

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Murray2503

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May 10, 2016
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I think we can all agree that the AFC thought we had a premiership team loaded with mature stars...and thus chose the 2 most underdone, skinny (but talented) kids avaiable in the first round.
I believe they did this to reduce presure on selection and increase their chance of retaining the talent long term. Give them 2-3 years in the SANFL like we did with Doedee while the men racked up finals appearences each year.

Now being forced to play them against seasoned men has set them back significantly.
Lets hope its as easy as giving them "time"....they sure dont look like 1st rounders atm.
I agree that was their philosophy. Whether your in the premiership window or not it was completely wrong. You should always draft for need with players that are physically ready to go or if they aren't they have the talent to get them through. We totally stuffed up that draft. The worry with Jones is not his physical attributes but he doesn't play with any calmness of mind and composure. Seems to be panicking out there and doesn't seem to have the killer instinct.
 

LittleCrowBoy

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Mar 4, 2017
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I agree that was their philosophy. Whether your in the premiership window or not it was completely wrong. You should always draft for need with players that are physically ready to go or if they aren't they have the talent to get them through. We totally stuffed up that draft. The worry with Jones is not his physical attributes but he doesn't play with any calmness of mind and composure. Seems to be panicking out there and doesn't seem to have the killer instinct.
Yes...how anyone can defend our drafting that year is beyond comprehension.
Just looking at the players and talent within that first round and what we walked away with in comparison is embarrassing.
You only have to look at what our cross town rivals have done....and where they are on the ladder....to see the magnitude of the delusion.
Too many excuses and not enough acceptance of the cold hard facts.
 

TubbsFarquhar

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Fog showed a bit tonight again I reckon.
He was a non-entity in the first half, but his second half was more promising. He seemed to finally find more space, and present himself on the lead more. He's too undersized to be the main target up forward but he could potentially end up being a Darling-like forward (similar builds) playing second fiddle to the big fish. Whether that's Himmelberg or, even, McAsey, but certainly not Tex.
 

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CrowBloke

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1) Jones has all the attributes ...
2) ...but I do agree with the comment Jones could be his own worse critic and applying too much pressure on himself
1) I'm guilty of this kind of "Jones has great potential" hopefulness myself. He certainly shows flashes of ability, but so do Murphy/Gallucci and McHenry.
Doesn't help; we're still waiting.
2) We need to stop making excuses for Jones and stop trying to read his mind as well.
I'm prepared to wait until after a strong pre-season, but an injury-free Jones has got to show some game-changing impact in the first ten rounds of 2021.
 

Scorpus

Sack Them All
Apr 16, 2014
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No we weren’t, you were talking about a history of excellence and why the AFC is a mediocre team/club.
No, you failed to read what I said:

Too long we have wallowed in mediocrity. Not terrible, not great. [...] List that has not been good enough for 20 years.
If you don't win a premiership in 20 years but just get close... yep, that's a mediocre team
I'm not talking about the "AFL era" or whatever metric you want to make up that conveniently includes our flags from ages ago. I'm talking about our history as a club since our flags. We have had multiple "teams" in that era (primarily the Craig team, Sanderson team and Pyke team) and all have been mediocre.

In the past 20 years, Richmond have made top 4 as many times as we have (5 times), but have won two flags. That's right, a club that has been ridiculed for being awful over the past 20 years actually has made the top 4 and put themselves into a position for flags as often as we have. Except that small issue where they won flags and we didn't. There are also many other multiple flag winning clubs in this time period (Geelong, Hawthorn, West Coast, Brisbane, Sydney).

To say we are just below Hawthorn, West Coast and Geelong is utter garbage. There are at least 8 other clubs above us because they've all won flags in that period, if you throw in single flag winners like Port, Collingwood and the Bulldogs. You'd even have to put multiple grand final teams above us like St Kilda.

Our quality over the last 20 years is most similar to Fremantle

Even Collingwood, a mediocre team now, was a good team 10 years ago. What were we doing 10 years ago? Oh, yep, we were mediocre
 
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ABAB

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Apr 3, 2018
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Ughh, for some reason my whole message didn’t post!!


The response, “no, this will be the hardest season to win a GF with everyone travelling”.

What makes me laugh is these family members give it but cannot take it. And I never give it because it can always come back to bite you in the A$$!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Not really, Brisbane hasn't travelled at all and won't need to in the finals so peak early in the season but they seem to be getting very "comfortable" now.
 

ABAB

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... and that is the problem! Jones is underperforming and we're all wondering why when he shows flashes of terrific ability.
But the flashes he show clearly show us why he is a pick 9 was the point I was making, problem is he doesn't show them consistently but will soon.....
 

CrowBloke

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I think we can all agree that the AFC thought we had a premiership team loaded with mature stars...and thus chose the 2 most underdone, skinny (but talented) kids avaiable in the first round.
Crows drafted Gallucci (182cms)/Murphy (176) as part of the trend of copying Richmond's fleet of hard-running, high-pressure 'smalls' after the GF loss. Other teams made similar choices.
Jones (180)/McHenry (179) might have been along similar lines. Problem is, Richmond's smalls aren't the dominant number, or concept. They have a terrific balance between smalls and the big-bodied taller players who either mark or bring the ball down to them.
Of the 4 I've liked Murphy the most; tough and tries his guts out, team player. Useful.
McHenry needs to channel his aggro first into getting the ball and using it well. AFTER that, he can throw his weight around, not before. His huff'n'puff bluster looks silly relative to actual impact with the ball. Oppo players laugh in his face. Toughness alone is cheap, but toughness plus effectiveness is what McHenry and the Crows need.
Gallucci deserves a chance to bounce back from injury. C-19 and the injury might have done him a favour.
Jones? An enigma, to me. I'll watch his development with keen interest.
I'd love to see them all come good! :)
 

hendo8888

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i only got to watch about 10 mins of the 2nd qtr as I was working

I saw Jones get two marks and i thought 'oh good maybe he is getting a bit more of the ball'

turns out i just happened to see all of his touches??
He had one handball in the first like 30s of the game, and other than that, he had that kick on the lead to Tex that Balta marked and one other touch which apparently happened around that time. And gave away one free kick in the 2nd half.
 

ABAB

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No, you failed to read what I said:



I'm not talking about the "AFL era" or whatever metric you want to make up that conveniently includes our flags from ages ago. I'm talking about our history as a club since our flags. We have had multiple "teams" in that era (primarily the Craig team, Sanderson team and Pyke team) and all have been mediocre.

In the past 20 years, Richmond have made top 4 as many times as we have (5 times), but have won two flags. That's right, a club that has been ridiculed for being awful over the past 20 years actually has made the top 4 and put themselves into a position for flags as often as we have. Except that small issue where they won flags and we didn't. There are also many other multiple flag winning clubs in this time period (Geelong, Hawthorn, West Coast, Brisbane, Sydney).

To say we are just below Hawthorn, West Coast and Geelong is utter garbage. There are at least 8 other clubs above us because they've all won flags in that period, if you throw in single flag winners like Port, Collingwood and the Bulldogs. You'd even have to put multiple grand final teams above us like St Kilda.

Our quality over the last 20 years is most similar to Fremantle

Even Collingwood, a mediocre team now, was a good team 10 years ago. What were we doing 10 years ago? Oh, yep, we were mediocre
We all know the premiership is hard to win in a normal season given you need to play nearly 6 months of football and bad luck can hit you anytime given this long time which you can't argue it hasn't happened to us when he had a very good chance to win the premiership in those 4 years. For me a mediocre team is a team who doesn't even get into a position to even get an opportunity to really win the premiership which clearly we are not, whereas you are saying any team who haven't actually won the premiership is a mediocre team.....well there is a lot of them then if that your metric of defining mediocre.
 

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hendo8888

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Watching the replay and Ricciuto mentions that up until a week or so ago when he got overtaken by M Crouch, ROB was our No 1 tackler.

I know some players have missed games here and there but that is an absolute indictment on us
To be fair, ROB is 24th in the league for tackles, and Crouch and Laird are above him. So on a team by team basis, we're over-represented at the top.
 

Scorpus

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Apr 16, 2014
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We all know the premiership is hard to win in a normal season given you need to play nearly 6 months of football and bad luck can hit you anytime given this long time which you can't argue it hasn't happened to us when he had a very good chance to win the premiership in those 4 years. For me a mediocre team is a team who doesn't even get into a position to even get an opportunity to really win the premiership which clearly we are not, whereas you are saying any team who haven't actually won the premiership is a mediocre team.....well there is a lot of them then if that your metric of defining mediocre.
There are many teams over the last 20 years that have been mediocre for stretches (eg Collingwood, Port Adelaide) but there are few that I would describe as mediocre for the entire 20 year period.

It's actually a pretty simple ladder based on objective success metrics

GREAT TEAMS (multiple flag winners): Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond, Sydney, West Coast, Brisbane

GOOD TEAMS (single flag winners): Bulldogs, Port Adelaide, Collingwood

AVERAGE TEAMS (multiple GFs, no flags): St Kilda

MEDIOCRE TEAMS (one GF, no flags): Fremantle, Adelaide, GWS, Essendon

BAD TEAMS (top 4 only, no GF): North Melbourne

TERRIBLE TEAMS (no top 4): Gold Coast, Carlton, Melbourne
 
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Kane McGoodwin

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There are many teams over the last 20 years that have been mediocre for stretches (eg Collingwood, Port Adelaide) but there are few that I would describe as mediocre for the entire 20 year period.

It's actually a pretty simple ladder based on objective success metrics

GREAT TEAMS (multiple flag winners): Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond, Sydney, West Coast, Brisbane

GOOD TEAMS (single flag winners): Bulldogs, Port Adelaide, Collingwood

AVERAGE TEAMS (multiple GFs, no flags): St Kilda

MEDIOCRE TEAMS (one GF, no flags): Fremantle, Adelaide, GWS, Essendon

BAD TEAMS (top 4 only, no GF): Melbourne, North Melbourne

TERRIBLE TEAMS (no top 4): Gold Coast, Carlton
Winning a flag makes you a better team than not winning a flag. Ie. You rate the Saints too high imo.
 

ABAB

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There are many teams over the last 20 years that have been mediocre for stretches (eg Collingwood, Port Adelaide) but there are few that I would describe as mediocre for the entire 20 year period.

It's actually a pretty simple ladder based on objective success metrics

GREAT TEAMS (multiple flag winners): Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond, Sydney, West Coast, Brisbane

GOOD TEAMS (single flag winners): Bulldogs, Port Adelaide, Collingwood

AVERAGE TEAMS (multiple GFs, no flags): St Kilda

MEDIOCRE TEAMS (one GF, no flags): Fremantle, Adelaide, GWS, Essendon

BAD TEAMS (top 4 only, no GF): Melbourne, North Melbourne

TERRIBLE TEAMS (no top 4): Gold Coast, Carlton
Okay, so you don't count finishing in the top 2 or playing the preliminary finals where they give you a real chance of winning the premiership. Hence I always thought we were between the GOOD and AVERAGE TEAMS (i.e. GOOD TEAM without winning the premiership).
 

Scorpus

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Okay, so you don't count finishing in the top 2 or playing the preliminary finals where they give you a real chance of winning the premiership. Hence I always thought we were between the GOOD and AVERAGE TEAMS (GOOD TEAM without winning the premiership).
I do count those elements, but not very highly. Almost every club in the league has played prelim finals over the last 20 years, in fact 16 of the 18 clubs have. It's nothing special
 

ABAB

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I do count those elements, but not very highly. Almost every club in the league has played prelim finals over the last 20 years, in fact 16 of the 18 clubs have. It's nothing special
Did they crash out of the finals due to as much bad luck as we did in 2005/2006 and 2012...???
 

Golumless

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Which is the opposite of what was said of Jones ferocity and tackling in his first year ......2nd year blues is not a furphy, it's real

I had the mis-fortune of having Rozee in my SC side all year, so I have closely followed every game of his ......what a sh*t 2nd year, yet he was continued to be referred all year as a star ........he has been as woeful as Jones, spending most of his 2nd season on a dead HFF

Don't look at a 2nd years players output .....look at his traits & just 23 games played

"Won the Mark Bickley Emerging Talent Award as the Crows’ best young player in 2019"

B4 you go early Crow on Sholl and McPherson, lets wait till they play their 2nd seasons
Yup. Football is a lot harder the second time round. After all, that reset can certainly do funky things to people.
 

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