Greg Williams is not unique - Brownlow votes myth

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Seeds

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2007
29,070
25,101
I don't know
AFL Club
Geelong
There was famously a game against Geelong that Geelong won easily, Goodes was completely ineffectual and hardly got the ball, he polled 2 votes. Geelong won 16.18 - 114 to 10.12 - 72. Goodes had 9 kicks, 2 marks, 5 handballs, he kicked 4 behinds had 5 hit outs and laid 5 tackles.
Sydneys coach actually spoke at the post game press conference about how poorly Goodes played that game. Very rare yet thats what the coach did. Yet goodes got 2 votes.
 

Scotland

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2006
49,156
50,676
AFL Club
West Coast
Jack Darling vs Richmond last year: 20 kicks, 15 marks (6 contested, 8 inside 50), 6 goals 2 behinds, 2 goal assists and 6 1%ers (#1 on ground).

Umpires: "not BOG".
 

Captain_Bender

Club Legend
May 21, 2015
2,542
3,111
AFL Club
Richmond
Raines is a strange one. Such a beautiful mover on the field and a penetrating kick and as you posted, he never had any trouble finding it. You'd think he'd have been a natural for catching the umpire's eye.

Being such a pretty boy, maybe he was slaying all the umpire's wives.
To not poll a single Brownlow vote at all is pretty dodgy
 

gingernuts

binlicker
Apr 25, 2018
317
380
koroit
AFL Club
Geelong
Fooking umpies do not show any logic with a lot of decisions during the game and we let the fookers give votes for the sports most prestigious individual award . FFS fook all of them have played the game how would they know 3.2.1. McLachlan out
 

Kingpin

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 15, 2004
12,543
464
AFL Club
Richmond
Geoff Raines was Brownlow favorite in 1980. He was centreman for the best team in the comp, had the 2nd most disposals for the season (behind Garry Wilson). He didn't poll a vote.

He won 3XB&Fs for Richmond over 4 years (and was 2nd in the other) - Richmond made GFs in 2 of those seasons. Made the Brownlow Top 10 once - only once reached double figures in votes.

I think we should call it out whenever a player receives votes ahead of the obvious outstanding player on the field. It should be called a 'Klomp'. As in 'Greg Williams was totally Klomped in that game'.

(For young kiddies - ask your dad about Robert Klomp).
Going back a long way but IIRC there was a year, mid-70s when Kevin Bartlett was favourite for the Brownlow and Keith Greig from North got up and pinched it on the last vote of the night to register a shock win over KB.
Graeme Richmond and a couple of other Richmond officials almost started a punchup with VFL officials at the count over it.
And a couple of weeks later Greig finished about ninth in North's B&F!
 

Wallaby

Norm Smith Medallist
May 8, 2007
8,412
9,072
vic
AFL Club
Richmond
Here's the thing. I'm not whinging about Raines' or Bartlett's Brownlow (lack of). Trying to pick who the most important or influential player on the ground is personal, and we all have different criteria. I remember going to a Geelong-Melbourne game as a neutral many years ago (many, many years) and thought Peter Johnson of Geelong was clearly the key player in the match - every Geelong attack went through him. If he marked it, it was important. I watched World of Sport the next day, and Johnson did not get a vote from those 'experts'.

I'm not a particularly 'possession stats' fan - in any game, both teams are going to get between 350-400 possessions. Depending on team structures, match-ups etc, some of those mid-fielders will get 20+, some will get 30+, and one may get 40+. But it doesn't overall affect the team total. Last year, when Mitchell got a million possessions, there does not seem to be a correlation between how many possessions he got, and how many overall Hawthorn got. (Not picking on Mitchell - every side has players who can get a lot of possessions). Ruckmen and hitouts can get even more ridiculous and lop-sided. It is interesting how Brownlow 'trends' have changed - in the 70s, Ruckmen won 5 of the 10 Brownlows. Since 1992, they haven't got close.

How you judge 'Best' is your opinion - and it is just as valid as anyone else's (well, mine is better than your's:D). Umpires have a unique view of the game - and by definition, they are neutral. I'm still happy with the umpire's adjudicating on who is the 'Best' player in what is, after all, a fairly meaningless honor in a team game. They are also probably the best judges of 'Fairest'.

My mum always told me I was the best player, so that's what I go with. You want to argue with my Mum?!?!? (Hint: you don't want to argue with my mum).
 

Furn2

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 27, 2012
8,795
14,009
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Lethal averaged 28 touchés and kick 91 goals in 1977 and didn't finish top 3 in the Brownlow.
 

Kingpin

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 15, 2004
12,543
464
AFL Club
Richmond
Here's the thing. I'm not whinging about Raines' or Bartlett's Brownlow (lack of). Trying to pick who the most important or influential player on the ground is personal, and we all have different criteria. I remember going to a Geelong-Melbourne game as a neutral many years ago (many, many years) and thought Peter Johnson of Geelong was clearly the key player in the match - every Geelong attack went through him. If he marked it, it was important. I watched World of Sport the next day, and Johnson did not get a vote from those 'experts'.

I'm not a particularly 'possession stats' fan - in any game, both teams are going to get between 350-400 possessions. Depending on team structures, match-ups etc, some of those mid-fielders will get 20+, some will get 30+, and one may get 40+. But it doesn't overall affect the team total. Last year, when Mitchell got a million possessions, there does not seem to be a correlation between how many possessions he got, and how many overall Hawthorn got. (Not picking on Mitchell - every side has players who can get a lot of possessions). Ruckmen and hitouts can get even more ridiculous and lop-sided. It is interesting how Brownlow 'trends' have changed - in the 70s, Ruckmen won 5 of the 10 Brownlows. Since 1992, they haven't got close.

How you judge 'Best' is your opinion - and it is just as valid as anyone else's (well, mine is better than your's:D). Umpires have a unique view of the game - and by definition, they are neutral.
True. Not AFL level but I remember a Tasmanian State League match at the TCA Ground about 10 years ago where North Hobart's Matthew Geappen, an ex-Devils player, got 68 touches in a 19-point loss to Hobart in the rain and mud.
Seemed to be a lot of ineffectual, scrubby kicks, turnovers and hospital handballs in amongst it. Never got a vote for that round in the medal count that year IIRC. Hobart got all three.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

FRUMPY

Norm Smith Medallist
Suspended
Aug 18, 2006
9,159
8,137
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
2003 when Buckley and Goodes tied with Riccuito.

Round 21, winner secures top 4 spot. Pies win a classic but Goodes was best on ground. Easily.

Bucks polls one vote, Goodes misses out.

Goodes is the outright Brownlow Medallist if the right votes were given for that game.
They must have been racist umpires then
 

Bedi

Premiership Player
Mar 8, 2014
3,136
3,435
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Regardless of being unique or not, the underlying fact of the matter is that he was bloody stiff to miss out on the Brownlow. So not sure what your point is, really.
 

Ricmel

Premiership Player
Jul 13, 2009
4,648
2,689
AFL Club
St Kilda
44 Greg Williams touches is the equivalent of 60 Tom Mitchell touches. Williams rarely wasted a disposal so if he had 44 touches you know it is a good game. He also picked up top votes in both the Age and the Hun for that game. I am pretty sure he got either second best or best on in the B&F for that game.

Of course It is even more glaring becasue he lost what would have been a 3rd medal by one vote.
 

Thewlis Dish

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2003
25,860
20,742
Five Star Laundry
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
FGR

Captain_Bender

Club Legend
May 21, 2015
2,542
3,111
AFL Club
Richmond
Going back a long way but IIRC there was a year, mid-70s when Kevin Bartlett was favourite for the Brownlow and Keith Greig from North got up and pinched it on the last vote of the night to register a shock win over KB.
Graeme Richmond and a couple of other Richmond officials almost started a punchup with VFL officials at the count over it.
And a couple of weeks later Greig finished about ninth in North's B&F!
1974, KB averaged 29.41 disposals (most of them kicks) and kicked 47 goals yet only polled 22 votes
 

Thewlis Dish

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2003
25,860
20,742
Five Star Laundry
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
FGR
Going back a long way but IIRC there was a year, mid-70s when Kevin Bartlett was favourite for the Brownlow and Keith Greig from North got up and pinched it on the last vote of the night to register a shock win over KB.
Graeme Richmond and a couple of other Richmond officials almost started a punchup with VFL officials at the count over it.
And a couple of weeks later Greig finished about ninth in North's B&F!
Greig finished second in the Syd Barker that year (1974) and won the Brownlow by four votes (five ahead of KB).

The counting was weird in that they wouldn't read the votes in order of matches and 3-2-1, so the last "three" vote was read out with Bartlett on 22 votes, Hardeman on 23 and Greig on 24, and everyone expecting the last votes of the night to go to KB.
 

gavaniacono

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 7, 2014
7,639
9,464
Hanoi
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Going back a long way but IIRC there was a year, mid-70s when Kevin Bartlett was favourite for the Brownlow and Keith Greig from North got up and pinched it on the last vote of the night to register a shock win over KB.
Graeme Richmond and a couple of other Richmond officials almost started a punchup with VFL officials at the count over it.
And a couple of weeks later Greig finished about ninth in North's B&F!
Can you imagine KB these days if on top of his 5 flags, BFs, and record behinds, he had a Brownlow as well? I love KB but that would make him over the top unbearable if he is not that already!
 

northmelbournefc

Premiership Player
Mar 16, 2011
3,554
3,387
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Was Greg Williams that good? Was just before my time. Most of the people who watched him say he was the greatest midfielder ever.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
May 3, 2007
16,695
7,563
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
To be fair, Scott's main skill was getting the ball, not so much getting rid of it.
I dont recall Scott Thompson butchering the ball in his 12-13 seasons at the crows. Maybe in his 4 years at the demons.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
May 3, 2007
16,695
7,563
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Its a tragedy what has happened in Greg Williams post playing days though. Suffering multiple problems right now due to taking too many blows to the head during his playing days.
 

living_in_syd

Premiership Player
May 2, 2009
3,099
4,178
sydney
AFL Club
Richmond
Disposals has became such a **** stat these days. Too much of stat padding, kick ins, 1 2s, kick off the ground

It should be effective disposal or ‘plays’ (no 1 2s)
 
Top Bottom