Hawthorn - 20 flags by 2050

Who's closer to a flag, Geelong or Hawthorn?

  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 141 56.4%
  • Geelong

    Votes: 109 43.6%

  • Total voters
    250

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matey

Premiership Player
Oct 5, 2004
3,099
1,976
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Raised this in another thread but it was sidetracked by trolls... what’s the thinking behind this? I don’t really get it. Wouldn’t a long term lease (50 years plus etc) be better? The council would have them at a very good rate given their profile.

Freehold land and buildings seems like a strange thing for a football club to have so much money tied up in. Wouldn’t it be better invested in the club itself?
Rent or lease money is dead money at the end of the day you own nothing. 23 arces not far out of Melbourne is pure gold. If ever Hawthorn wish to sell or relocate down the track ask Amcor, Eastern Golf club and Kingston Links Golf club what they are doing with the 10's of millions of dollars they received from developers!

Hawks wealth and strong balance sheet will guarantee the club a strong financial future and it will allow administration and management to put more energy and focus into other areas.
 

Bunk Moreland

Hall of Famer
Sep 22, 2011
34,883
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Your girlfriend's dreams
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Rent or lease money is dead money at the end of the day you own nothing. 23 arces not far out of Melbourne is pure gold. If ever Hawthorn wish to sell or relocate down the track ask Amcor, Eastern Golf club and Kingston Links Golf club what they are doing with the 10's of millions of dollars they received from developers!

Hawks wealth and strong balance sheet will guarantee the club a strong financial future and it will allow administration and management to put more energy and focus into other areas.
I debate this (with almost any business, not just Hawthorn) and see it as people just taking a residential property attitude to commercial property, which is a very different beast.

Surely Hawthorn’s goal is premierships? If we’re talking about about dead money, having tens of millions sitting on the balance sheet doing absolutely nothing doesn’t advance the premiership pursuit at all.

Hawthorn could get the same security of tenure with a long leasehold and use all the money to put into the football club.

One of the financiers was saying the other day you the freehold is important, but didn’t say why.
 

blaisee

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 11, 2004
6,895
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"One-eyed"? I have only posted stats and figures directly from the annual reports to counter factually incorrect assertions and baseless suppositions. Quoting statistical facts without drawing conclusions from them is hardly a biased, myopic view as you have tried to imply.

Rather, you have taken factually incorrect information, drawn wild conclusions, spoken on behalf of an entire supporter base and then told them why they think what they do.

Who do you think is closer to the reality of the matter?
Your eloquence and verbosity does not hide the fact that you ignore the underlying reality that for the reasons I have stated on numerous occasions, the business and the financials fundamentally unsustainable in the medium to long term.

Until you come to terms with that, your input, opinion and facts while mildly amusing arelargely irrelevant as it adds zero value.
 

blaisee

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 11, 2004
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Unmitigated drivel from pillar to post.

Only blind pathological hatred could provoke so much outright garbage.

This type of tripe is barely worthy of the bay...

please outline where anything I have said is not true.

1. Does Hawthorn make more money from gaming revenue more than any other club in the league ?
2. Is this gaming revenue a questionable source of income for the future?
3. Does Hawthorn not earn millions from having partially relocating to Tasmania?
4. Will Hawthorn not suffer when/if these two fundamental income streams stop occurring.

Please stick to the questions in your response if you want me to waste my time reading your posts.

Please keep emotion out of this as it does not help clarify matters.

Thanks
 

Holy Rioli

Premium Gold
Nov 24, 2012
4,132
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I debate this (with almost any business, not just Hawthorn) and see it as people just taking a residential property attitude to commercial property, which is a very different beast.

Surely Hawthorn’s goal is premierships? If we’re talking about about dead money, having tens of millions sitting on the balance sheet doing absolutely nothing doesn’t advance the premiership pursuit at all.

Hawthorn could get the same security of tenure with a long leasehold and use all the money to put into the football club.

One of the financiers was saying the other day you the freehold is important, but didn’t say why.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a freehold on an asset that is likely to appreciate significantly when that land is rezoned, rather than renegotiating a potentially very costly new lease agreement in 50 years.
 

Roddy

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 10, 2006
10,083
10,102
M-Town
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Hawthorn
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Why are some posters so overwhelmingly desperate to spend their own time attempting to pick faults and find chinks in Hawthorn's armour? What is so deeply lacking in their own lives that they have to go out of their way to attempt to bring us down? You cannot bring us down, we are by far the most successful side of the 2010s, the 2000s, the AFL era, the last 50 years and since we entered the comp. You jibes mean nothing to us, we are twenty feet tall and bulletproof, you may as well throw creampuffs at Fort Knox. Find something more fulfilling and meaningful to do with your time.
 

blaisee

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 11, 2004
6,895
9,676
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Why are some posters so overwhelmingly desperate to spend their own time attempting to pick faults and find chinks in Hawthorn's armour? What is so deeply lacking in their own lives that they have to go out of their way to attempt to bring us down? You cannot bring us down, we are by far the most successful side of the 2010s, the 2000s, the AFL era, the last 50 years and since we entered the comp. You jibes mean nothing to us, we are twenty feet tall and bulletproof, you may as well throw creampuffs at Fort Knox. Find something more fulfilling and meaningful to do with your time.

why are you so insecure?
 

matey

Premiership Player
Oct 5, 2004
3,099
1,976
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I debate this (with almost any business, not just Hawthorn) and see it as people just taking a residential property attitude to commercial property, which is a very different beast.

Surely Hawthorn’s goal is premierships? If we’re talking about about dead money, having tens of millions sitting on the balance sheet doing absolutely nothing doesn’t advance the premiership pursuit at all.
Realestate is realestate whether you have a family in a house or people working in an office, the land and building has a value attached to it and prices have skyrocketed in recent times. It ain't going backwards.

As a football club ofcourse the Hawks main priority is on feild success and winning premierships but to make this happen it would also include elements such as a strong focus on its people and supporters, training facilities, financial position, ..... etc.

The money involved in purchasing the Dingleyland guarantees Hawthorn a state of the art training facility which you would think plays a big part in on field success. Not being a smart arse but it's not like that this money to purchase Dingleyland could be diverted to player payments outside the salary cap or other illegal programs. As shown by other clubs this pushes you further away from that next salute!
 

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blaisee

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 11, 2004
6,895
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Realestate is realestate whether you have a family in a house or people working in an office, the land and building has a value attached to it and prices have skyrocketed in recent times. It ain't going backwards.

As a football club ofcourse the Hawks main priority is on feild success and winning premierships but to make this happen it would also include elements such as a strong focus on its people and supporters, training facilities, financial position, ..... etc.

The money involved in purchasing the Dingleyland guarantees Hawthorn a state of the art training facility which you would think plays a big part in on field success. Not being a smart arse but it's not like that this money to purchase Dingleyland could be diverted to player payments outside the salary cap or other illegal programs. As shown by other clubs this pushes you further away from that next salute!
lol

real estate is real estate is one of the dumbest most ignorant things I have ever read on this forum.

If you believe that commercial property is the same as residential property then you my friend are completely deluded.

They are completely different things that in many ways have very little no correlation
 

Lance Uppercut

Eat bling
Jan 7, 2005
60,153
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Fatebringer
Inb4 you start quoting things written on the Hawk board again....in between more venting about Hawthorn exceptionalism.
oh no mate, after you reported me last time leading to me getting a suspension I've learned my lesson there.

Unfortunately for you though, talking about the club you support isn't against site rules, so I guess you'll just have to keep rationalising other peoples general interest in discussing footy on a footy discussion site as "coping mechanisms".

As sure as I'll be talking about footy you'll be front and centre in any Hawthorn thread with the full suit of shining armour on, and bully for you too :thumbsu:
 

Guardian Hawk

Premiership Player
Oct 16, 2003
3,169
4,163
Murrumbeena
AFL Club
Hawthorn
please outline where anything I have said is not true.

1. Does Hawthorn make more money from gaming revenue more than any other club in the league ?
2. Is this gaming revenue a questionable source of income for the future?
3. Does Hawthorn not earn millions from having partially relocating to Tasmania?
4. Will Hawthorn not suffer when/if these two fundamental income streams stop occurring.

Please stick to the questions in your response if you want me to waste my time reading your posts.

Please keep emotion out of this as it does not help clarify matters.

Thanks

They have been answered and proven wrong but you simply choose to ignore it....

1. Does Hawthorn make more money from gaming revenue more than any other club in the league ?

No, Collingwood have the highest gaming revenue.

2. Is this gaming revenue a questionable source of income for the future?

Possibly but irrelevant. Hawthorn's revenue not counting gaming has been in the top 5 clubs in the league the entirety of the last decade (usually top 2-3).

3. Does Hawthorn not earn millions from having partially relocating to Tasmania?

No, they have a major sponsor which is the Tasmanian government. All clubs have major sponsors that come and go. Our deal is one of the longest in the league.

4. Will Hawthorn not suffer when/if these two fundamental income streams stop occurring.

Not really for the reasons already highlighted. If gaming is removed, we will drop from 1st/2nd in revenue to 3rd/4th. If we lose our major sponsor, we will get another major sponsor. Even if we were to somehow not have a major sponsor (will never happen - sponsors line up to sign with a brand like Hawthorn which is why our sponsorship deals are top 2 in the league) then our revenue is still ahead of nearly every club in the league, including Richmond.

How many times do you have to be proven wrong before you let go of your fantasy?
 

Strapping Young Lad

previously Messenger
Apr 19, 2006
65,774
121,775
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oh no mate, after you reported me last time leading to me getting a suspension I've learned my lesson there.

Unfortunately for you though, talking about the club you support isn't against site rules, so I guess you'll just have to keep rationalising other peoples general interest in discussing footy on a footy discussion site as "coping mechanisms".

As sure as I'll be talking about footy you'll be front and centre in any Hawthorn thread with the full suit of shining armour on, and bully for you too :thumbsu:
“Accident of history”
“Hawthorn exceptionalism”
“Hawthorn hubris”
“Look at what they’re writing on the Hawthorn board”.


You’re right mate, Hawthorn aren’t in your head at all.
 

blaisee

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 11, 2004
6,895
9,676
Punt Road
AFL Club
Richmond
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They have been answered and proven wrong but you simply choose to ignore it....

1. Does Hawthorn make more money from gaming revenue more than any other club in the league ?

No, Collingwood have the highest gaming revenue.


Incorrect https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...liance-on-poker-machines-20170816-gxxrzk.html


Garvey's involvement in the working group is significant given Hawthorn's entire profit in recent years has generally mirrored their gaming profit. Over the past financial year Hawthorn led the nine Victorian AFL pokie clubs, reaping $23.29 million in gaming takings, a 3 per cent increase on the previous year. Carlton came second, with their four venues reaping $17.6 million – up 3.3 per cent.

2. Is this gaming revenue a questionable source of income for the future?

Possibly but irrelevant. Hawthorn's revenue not counting gaming has been in the top 5 clubs in the league the entirety of the last decade (usually top 2-3).

Rubbish again from you

It is not only possible, it is actually inevitable and it is completely not irrelevant, especially when considering the following

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...liance-on-poker-machines-20170816-gxxrzk.html

The AFL has turned to a group of heavy hitters to examine and ultimately reduce Victorian clubs' reliance on poker machines.


3. Does Hawthorn not earn millions from having partially relocating to Tasmania?

No, they have a major sponsor which is the Tasmanian government. All clubs have major sponsors that come and go. Our deal is one of the longest in the league.

This is just complete rubbish, Hawthorn have relocated half their home games to Tasmania in order to stay alive.

4. Will Hawthorn not suffer when/if these two fundamental income streams stop occurring.

Not really for the reasons already highlighted. If gaming is removed, we will drop from 1st/2nd in revenue to 3rd/4th. If we lose our major sponsor, we will get another major sponsor. Even if we were to somehow not have a major sponsor (will never happen - sponsors line up to sign with a brand like Hawthorn which is why our sponsorship deals are top 2 in the league) then our revenue is still ahead of nearly every club in the league, including Richmond.

This one made me laugh the most as it is completely made up

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=4121

Revenue without Gaming



    • West Coast – $64,013,222
    • Richmond – $57,984,202
    • Collingwood – $54,848,992
    • Essendon – $51,814,111
    • Hawthorn – $51,655,098
    • Fremantle – $49,263,474
    • Geelong – $47,266,694
    • St Kilda – $46,018,621
    • Western Bulldogs – $44,883,240
    • Melbourne – $40,347,662
    • Carlton – $39,793,007
    • Brisbane – $36,372,790
[FONT=PT Serif, Georgia, Times, Times New Roman, serif]Hawthorn drops to 5th in revenue without gaming not 3/4th, and when you take out the tassie handout for relocating games it would drop to the bottom 3rd. The truth is the hawks are in a bind. Due to their weakness in Victoria, they will always need to relocate to surive, it isnt Tassie, it will be the Gold Coast. Either way the organisation is not big enough or strong enough to surrvive on its own two feet.

The myth that the hawks are a powerhouse financially, is just that, a myth. [/FONT]


How many times do you have to be proven wrong before you let go of your fantasy?

I have no vested interested or fantasy in anything Hawthorn. I cannot however sit hear and let delusional fans go on and on about things they clearly do not understand.
 

LRobbo

All Australian
Jan 5, 2018
716
3,136
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I have no vested interested or fantasy in anything Hawthorn. I cannot however sit hear and let delusional fans go on and on about things they clearly do not understand.

I just can’t understand the angle you are coming from when you follow a club that has only been in the Black for 2 years.

Hawthorn are a financial powerhouse & have been for sometime. Richmond have only just become financially strong very recently.

I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day though.

Would’ve thought a flag would make you a little happier, but obviously it’s easier to make infactual material up
 

threesixpio

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 28, 2013
27,117
36,907
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Brown and Matthews contextualise their statements within the 2017 finals series. On not one occasion do they say Cotchin is the equal of or better than Voss overall. Some liberties taken by the blinkered Richmond fan who posted about this...
JB even uses the word “emulate”

Hell I emulate Vossy when I ride my bike to work...
 

Bunk Moreland

Hall of Famer
Sep 22, 2011
34,883
70,384
Your girlfriend's dreams
AFL Club
Essendon
lol

real estate is real estate is one of the dumbest most ignorant things I have ever read on this forum.

If you believe that commercial property is the same as residential property then you my friend are completely deluded.

They are completely different things that in many ways have very little no correlation
I really don’t get why it was apparently so important to have a freehold.

And to be clear, apparently that was Essendon’s preference as well when they moved, though not a huge priority and ended up with a leasehold. I didn’t get it then either.
 

Guardian Hawk

Premiership Player
Oct 16, 2003
3,169
4,163
Murrumbeena
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Incorrect
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...liance-on-poker-machines-20170816-gxxrzk.html

Garvey's involvement in the working group is significant given Hawthorn's entire profit in recent years has generally mirrored their gaming profit. Over the past financial year Hawthorn led the nine Victorian AFL pokie clubs, reaping $23.29 million in gaming takings, a 3 per cent increase on the previous year. Carlton came second, with their four venues reaping $17.6 million – up 3.3 per cent.


This is just a matter of different sources - you've quoted Caroline Wilson and I've quoted the actual financial reports released by the clubs, summarised here: http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=4121.

What do you think is more reliable - audited financial summaries released by the clubs or a journalist?

Rubbish again from you

It is not only possible, it is actually inevitable and it is completely not irrelevant, especially when considering the following


Sigh, same article again. Yes, the AFL have employed the Hawthorn president and Carlton president to investigate whether a reliance on gaming may be able to be reduced (and later explains the AFL successfully campaigned the Govt to have unrestricted gambling access). If you seriously think this means it is inevitable all pokies will be banned for clubs you are delusional. 'Possible' is a much better descriptor than inevitable as the AFL (and two club presidents who do very well out of it) are not likely to eradicate it altogether - they need to be seen to be addressing an issue of public concern and will likely result in a 'cap' or additional support back to the community (as already happens). Regardless, as was mentioned, Hawthorn have been top 5 without gaming for the entire last decade.

This one made me laugh the most as it is completely made up ....Hawthorn drops to 5th in revenue without gaming not 3/4th


Firstly, the difference between 5th and 4th in negligible but it isn't made up - it is a longitudinal assessment. ON 2017 figures, Hawthorn is 5th for revenue without gaming. On 2016 figures, Hawthorn is 2nd. On 2015 figures, Hawthorn is 1st. They have been top 4 every other year in the last decade. A club like Richmond moved slightly ahead in 2017 following a big jump thanks to a premiership, which they will not win every year. 3rd/4th is an accurate (conservative) reflection of where they sit in terms of revenue without gaming.

when you take out the tassie handout for relocating games it would drop to the bottom 3rd.


Again it is you that is making stuff up. If you remove ALL sponsorship and social revenue from Hawthorn including Tasmania, iiNet, adidas and Audi, it still makes $56M in revenue. That is comfortably in the top half (if all other clubs keep all sponsors). Richmond, in 2016 (a comparable year) made $47M in revenue including everything. Leave aside the preposterous notion that Hawthorn would get no sponsors whatsoever (Tassie and adidas both on long term deals), Hawthorn without sponsorship money is still ahead of Richmond every year of the last decade bar 2017 (which is still quite close). How embarrassing.
 
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