Analysis History: How our Board rated/voted on player performance over a decade

Grand Uncle Horace · Jun 15, 2022

This thread consolidates how we as a Swans Board voted on individual player performance.over a decade. It is a resource for current and future members and charts a history of how we rated players. It also sheds light on how we as a Board have assessed performance.

Many regular Board participants have a crack at the weekly voting and as many I am guessing follow the weekly votes and annual award. No-one votes in an off hand manner and the great thing is the respect shown by all for the votes of individuals.

scaryness currently pulls our votes together for 5-1 and Young Player of the Year. He was prevailed upon and did sturdy work pulling both totals for every player over a decade and average votes per game played. Kudos to the scary one!

The result is a helpful resource. Have a look. Bear in mind it captures just the tail-end of some careers such as Goodesy and Pebbles and the beginnings of some of our youngsters who are still finding their way. Here it is

scaryness said:
PLAYER VOTES GAMES AVERAGE VOTES PER GAME
1. Josh Kennedy 439 227 1.934
2. Lance Franklin 248 146 1.699
3. Luke Parker 353 234 1.509
4. Isaac Heeney 195 141 1.383
5. Ryan O'Keefe 73 53 1.377
6. Jordan Dawson 87 64 1.359
7. Dan Hannebery 210 156 1.346
8. Paddy McCartin 13 11 1.182
9. Tom Hickey 30 26 1.154
10. Callum Mills 140 122 1.148
11. Peter Ladhams 10 9 1.111
12. Tom Mitchell 69 65 1.062
13. Kieren Jack 174 167 1.042
14. Aliir Aliir 66 64 1.031
15. Kurt Tippett 72 74 0.973
16. Jarrad McVeigh 143 156 0.917
17. Chad Warner 23 26 0.885
18. Dane Rampe 146 202 0.723
19. Adam Goodes 49 72 0.681
20. Justin McInerney 27 41 0.659
21. James Rowbottom 34 55 0.618
22. George Hewett 71 120 0.592
23. Tom Papley 73 128 0.570
24. Ben McGlynn 50 89 0.562
25. Oliver Florent 58 105 0.552
26. Lewis Jetta 48 87 0.552
27. Callum Sinclair 48 89 0.539
28. Nick Malceski 38 72 0.528
29. Jake Lloyd 94 187 0.503
30. Ted Richards 47 105 0.448
31. Jesse White 8 18 0.444
32. Shane Mumford 17 39 0.436
33. Daniel Menzel 3 7 0.429
34. Nic Newman 13 31 0.419
35. Sam Reid 60 144 0.417
36. Zak Jones 37 90 0.411
37. Tom McCartin 33 82 0.402
38. Rhyce Shaw 28 74 0.378
39. Mike Pyke 31 82 0.378
40. Logan McDonald 6 16 0.375
41. Heath Grundy 61 166 0.367
42. Craig Bird 26 75 0.347
43. Gary Rohan 30 88 0.341
44. Alex Johnson 9 27 0.333
45. Errol Gulden 10 30 0.333
46. Jude Bolton 15 46 0.326
47. Ben Ronke 12 42 0.286
48. Hayden McLean 8 29 0.276
49. Lewis Roberts-Thomson 7 31 0.226
50. Joel Amartey 2 9 0.222
51. Braeden Campbell 4 18 0.222
52. Will Hayward 13 63 0.206
53. Nick Blakey 13 63 0.206
54. Kaiden Brand 1 5 0.200
55. Ryan Clarke 5 25 0.200
56. Harry Cunningham 28 158 0.177
57. Nick Smith 26 159 0.164
58. Dean Towers 9 57 0.158
59. Lewis Melican 8 52 0.154
60. Sam Wicks 5 36 0.139
61. Colin O'Riordan 4 31 0.129
62. Harrison Marsh 3 25 0.120
63. Jackson Thurlow 2 17 0.118
64. Jeremy Laidler 7 61 0.115
65. Sam Naismith 3 30 0.100
66. Brandon Jack 2 28 0.071
67. Robbie Fox 2 54 0.037
68. Andrejs Everitt 1 32 0.031

Then a bunch of players who never got a vote in order of most games:
Martin Mattner (31)
James Bell (25)
Dan Robinson (25)
Dylan Stephens (17)
Tony Armstrong (15)
James Rose (14)
Tom Derickx (13)
Xavier Richards (12)
Toby Nankervis (12)
Mitch Morton (12)
Jed Lamb (12)
Lewis Taylor (11)
Trent Dennis-Lane (8)
Sam Gray (7)
Shane Biggs (6)
Ryley Stoddart (6)
Jordan Foote (6)
Tommy Walsh (5)
Mark Seaby (5)
Elijah Taylor (4)
Matthew Ling (3)
Zac Foot (2)
Angus Sheldrick (2)
Tim Membrey (1)
Michael Talia (1)
Matt Roberts (1)
Jack Hiscox (1)
Darcy Cameron (1

Grand Uncle Horace · Jun 14, 2022

I enjoy the Board voting system on games that scaryness runs for us each year. I figure whatever mad biases we have as individuals are balanced out. I reckon people give more than cursory thought to their votes.

This week Sam Reid will get a near unanimous 5 votes (inc from me). I wondered how often Sam has featured in the voting over the games he has played and while the current system has been in place. I am guessing he has only infrequently appeared in the votes relative to other regular players.

I then wondered whether it is possible to develop an Index for average votes per game played for regular players. Would this be easily achieved?

scaryness · Jun 14, 2022

Grand Uncle Horace said:
I enjoy the Board voting system on games that scaryness runs for us each year. I figure whatever mad biases we have as individuals are balanced out. I reckon people give more than cursory thought to their votes.

This week Sam Reid will get a near unanimous 5 votes (inc from me). I wondered how often Sam has featured in the voting over the games he has played and while the current system has been in place. I am guessing he has only infrequently appeared in the votes relative to other regular players.

I then wondered whether it is possible to develop an Index for average votes per game played for regular players. Would this be easily achieved?

Could be done pretty easily from 2014 on, maybe a little earlier too. POTY records from before then are harder as the threads are buried and iirc the tallies were presented on images that are no longer online, lost to dead servers. I know the winners but not much else.

Grand Uncle Horace · Jun 14, 2022

scaryness said:
Could be done pretty easily from 2014 on, maybe a little earlier too. POTY records from before then are harder as the threads are buried and iirc the tallies were presented on images that are no longer online, lost to dead servers. I know the winners but not much else.

Hmmn 8 years of records is still pretty fancy. No doubt our champs like JPK, Parker, Buddy et al would feature with the highest average votes per game but I reckon there is a great spread of votes and most reg players would feature. Could be done a yearly and career, career to date or partial career for older players.

GoTheSwannies · Jun 14, 2022

Grand Uncle Horace said:
I enjoy the Board voting system on games that scaryness runs for us each year. I figure whatever mad biases we have as individuals are balanced out. I reckon people give more than cursory thought to their votes.

This week Sam Reid will get a near unanimous 5 votes (inc from me). I wondered how often Sam has featured in the voting over the games he has played and while the current system has been in place. I am guessing he has only infrequently appeared in the votes relative to other regular players.

I then wondered whether it is possible to develop an Index for average votes per game played for regular players. Would this be easily achieved?

That's actually a great idea... And if it only goes back to 2014 then that's fine... But it would be great to have that available

Millky95 · Jun 14, 2022

Grand Uncle Horace said:
I enjoy the Board voting system on games that scaryness runs for us each year. I figure whatever mad biases we have as individuals are balanced out. I reckon people give more than cursory thought to their votes.

This week Sam Reid will get a near unanimous 5 votes (inc from me). I wondered how often Sam has featured in the voting over the games he has played and while the current system has been in place. I am guessing he has only infrequently appeared in the votes relative to other regular players.

I then wondered whether it is possible to develop an Index for average votes per game played for regular players. Would this be easily achieved?

scaryness said:
Could be done pretty easily from 2014 on, maybe a little earlier too. POTY records from before then are harder as the threads are buried and iirc the tallies were presented on images that are no longer online, lost to dead servers. I know the winners but not much else.

If I remember after work tonight I'll have a look back from 2014 onwards

Millky95 · Jun 14, 2022

2014 - 2 votes (1 game of 2 votes vs Carlton Round 17) in 20 games
2015 - 17 votes (2 games of 5 votes vs Freo Round 4, Suns Round 23, 1 game of 3 vs Hawthorn in round 8, 2 games of 2 vs Brisbane round 15, GWS Round 21) in 22 games
2016 - 0 votes in 0 games
2017 - 12 votes (1 game of 5 votes vs Bulldogs in Round 2, 1 game of 3 vs Port in Round 1, 1 game of 2 vs North in Round 8, 2 games of 1 vote vs Bulldogs in Round 12, vs Geelong in Round 20) in 22 games
2018 - 1 vote (1 game of 1 vote vs GWS in round 3) in 1 game
2019 - 11 votes (2 games of 5 votes vs Collingwood in Round 10, Freo in Round 18, 1 game of 1 votes vs North in Round in Round 22) in 22 games
2020 - 0 votes in 10 games
2021 - 7 votes (1 game of 5 votes vs Essendon in Round 4, 1 game of 2 vs GWS in Round 5) in 10 games
2022 - 0 votes in 4 games*

TOTAL: 50 votes in 111 games averaging 0.45 votes per game. In games he does poll in he averages 2.94 votes with 6 best on grounds. Highest overall finish is 9th in 2015

*Melbourne game not counted at time of post

Grand Uncle Horace · Jun 14, 2022

Millky95 said:
2014 - 2 votes (1 game of 2 votes vs Carlton Round 17) in 20 games
2015 - 17 votes (2 games of 5 votes vs Freo Round 4, Suns Round 23, 1 game of 3 vs Hawthorn in round 8, 2 games of 2 vs Brisbane round 15, GWS Round 21) in 22 games
2016 - 0 votes in 0 games
2017 - 12 votes (1 game of 5 votes vs Bulldogs in Round 2, 1 game of 3 vs Port in Round 1, 1 game of 2 vs North in Round 8, 2 games of 1 vote vs Bulldogs in Round 12, vs Geelong in Round 20) in 22 games
2018 - 1 vote (1 game of 1 vote vs GWS in round 3) in 1 game
2019 - 11 votes (2 games of 5 votes vs Collingwood in Round 10, Freo in Round 18, 1 game of 1 votes vs North in Round in Round 22) in 22 games
2020 - 0 votes in 10 games Gives all
2021 - 7 votes (1 game of 5 votes vs Essendon in Round 4, 1 game of 2 vs GWS in Round 5) in 10 games
2022 - 0 votes in 4 games*

TOTAL: 50 votes in 111 games averaging 0.45 votes per game. In games he does poll in he averages 2.94 votes with 6 best on grounds. Highest overall finish is 9th in 2015

*Melbourne game not counted at time of post

That is great and sturdy work Millky! Much appreciated.

Gives all of us heaps to think about!

The 2015 9th finish immediately sticks out. IIRC the guy has never finished top 10 in the Club's B&F.

Grand Uncle Horace · Jun 14, 2022

7 BOGs across (with the Melbourne game) in 114 games, I can see why he has driven me yakkabakakis over the years. Umpteen times (well 7) he has pulled a great game out of nowhere. Consistency is not a Sam virtue.

That many times and more I have believed.

Such belief is not on my radar.

Thanks again Millky.

Millky95 · Jun 14, 2022

Grand Uncle Horace said:
That is great and sturdy work Millky! Much appreciated.

Gives all of us heaps to think about!

The 2015 9th finish immediately sticks out. IIRC the guy has never finished top 10 in the Club's B&F.

From 2015:

57 - Josh Kennedy
52 - Dan Hannebery
33 - Kurt Tippett
30 - Lance Franklin
29 - Tom Mitchell

26 - Luke Parker
22 - Kieren Jack
18 - Lewis Jetta
17 - Sam Reid
16 - Jarrad McVeigh
13 - Adam Goodes

All scored more than 10 votes

scaryness · Jun 14, 2022

Grand Uncle Horace said:
I enjoy the Board voting system on games that scaryness runs for us each year. I figure whatever mad biases we have as individuals are balanced out. I reckon people give more than cursory thought to their votes.

This week Sam Reid will get a near unanimous 5 votes (inc from me). I wondered how often Sam has featured in the voting over the games he has played and while the current system has been in place. I am guessing he has only infrequently appeared in the votes relative to other regular players.

I then wondered whether it is possible to develop an Index for average votes per game played for regular players. Would this be easily achieved?

This is probably not the right thread, but I just spent too long counting this up from 2012-R12,2022

	PLAYER	VOTES	GAMES	AVERAGE VOTES PER GAME
1.	Josh Kennedy	439	227	1.934
2.	Lance Franklin	248	146	1.699
3.	Luke Parker	353	234	1.509
4.	Isaac Heeney	195	141	1.383
5.	Ryan O'Keefe	73	53	1.377
6.	Jordan Dawson	87	64	1.359
7.	Dan Hannebery	210	156	1.346
8.	Paddy McCartin	13	11	1.182
9.	Tom Hickey	30	26	1.154
10.	Callum Mills	140	122	1.148
11.	Peter Ladhams	10	9	1.111
12.	Tom Mitchell	69	65	1.062
13.	Kieren Jack	174	167	1.042
14.	Aliir Aliir	66	64	1.031
15.	Kurt Tippett	72	74	0.973
16.	Jarrad McVeigh	143	156	0.917
17.	Chad Warner	23	26	0.885
18.	Dane Rampe	146	202	0.723
19.	Adam Goodes	49	72	0.681
20.	Justin McInerney	27	41	0.659
21.	James Rowbottom	34	55	0.618
22.	George Hewett	71	120	0.592
23.	Tom Papley	73	128	0.570
24.	Ben McGlynn	50	89	0.562
25.	Oliver Florent	58	105	0.552
26.	Lewis Jetta	48	87	0.552
27.	Callum Sinclair	48	89	0.539
28.	Nick Malceski	38	72	0.528
29.	Jake Lloyd	94	187	0.503
30.	Ted Richards	47	105	0.448
31.	Jesse White	8	18	0.444
32.	Shane Mumford	17	39	0.436
33.	Daniel Menzel	3	7	0.429
34.	Nic Newman	13	31	0.419
35.	Sam Reid	60	144	0.417
36.	Zak Jones	37	90	0.411
37.	Tom McCartin	33	82	0.402
38.	Rhyce Shaw	28	74	0.378
39.	Mike Pyke	31	82	0.378
40.	Logan McDonald	6	16	0.375
41.	Heath Grundy	61	166	0.367
42.	Craig Bird	26	75	0.347
43.	Gary Rohan	30	88	0.341
44.	Alex Johnson	9	27	0.333
45.	Errol Gulden	10	30	0.333
46.	Jude Bolton	15	46	0.326
47.	Ben Ronke	12	42	0.286
48.	Hayden McLean	8	29	0.276
49.	Lewis Roberts-Thomson	7	31	0.226
50.	Joel Amartey	2	9	0.222
51.	Braeden Campbell	4	18	0.222
52.	Will Hayward	13	63	0.206
53.	Nick Blakey	13	63	0.206
54.	Kaiden Brand	1	5	0.200
55.	Ryan Clarke	5	25	0.200
56.	Harry Cunningham	28	158	0.177
57.	Nick Smith	26	159	0.164
58.	Dean Towers	9	57	0.158
59.	Lewis Melican	8	52	0.154
60.	Sam Wicks	5	36	0.139
61.	Colin O'Riordan	4	31	0.129
62.	Harrison Marsh	3	25	0.120
63.	Jackson Thurlow	2	17	0.118
64.	Jeremy Laidler	7	61	0.115
65.	Sam Naismith	3	30	0.100
66.	Brandon Jack	2	28	0.071
67.	Robbie Fox	2	54	0.037
68.	Andrejs Everitt	1	32	0.031

Then a bunch of players who never got a vote in order of most games:
Martin Mattner (31)
James Bell (25)
Dan Robinson (25)
Dylan Stephens (17)
Tony Armstrong (15)
James Rose (14)
Tom Derickx (13)
Xavier Richards (12)
Toby Nankervis (12)
Mitch Morton (12)
Jed Lamb (12)
Lewis Taylor (11)
Trent Dennis-Lane (8)
Sam Gray (7)
Shane Biggs (6)
Ryley Stoddart (6)
Jordan Foote (6)
Tommy Walsh (5)
Mark Seaby (5)
Elijah Taylor (4)
Matthew Ling (3)
Zac Foot (2)
Angus Sheldrick (2)
Tim Membrey (1)
Michael Talia (1)
Matt Roberts (1)
Jack Hiscox (1)
Darcy Cameron (1)

Millky95 · Jun 14, 2022

scaryness said:
This is probably not the right thread, but I just spent too long counting this up from 2012-R12,2022

PLAYER VOTES GAMES AVERAGE VOTES PER GAME
1. Josh Kennedy 439 227 1.934
2. Lance Franklin 248 146 1.699
3. Luke Parker 353 234 1.509
4. Isaac Heeney 195 141 1.383
5. Ryan O'Keefe 73 53 1.377
6. Jordan Dawson 87 64 1.359
7. Dan Hannebery 210 156 1.346
8. Paddy McCartin 13 11 1.182
9. Tom Hickey 30 26 1.154
10. Callum Mills 140 122 1.148
11. Peter Ladhams 10 9 1.111
12. Tom Mitchell 69 65 1.062
13. Kieren Jack 174 167 1.042
14. Aliir Aliir 66 64 1.031
15. Kurt Tippett 72 74 0.973
16. Jarrad McVeigh 143 156 0.917
17. Chad Warner 23 26 0.885
18. Dane Rampe 146 202 0.723
19. Adam Goodes 49 72 0.681
20. Justin McInerney 27 41 0.659
21. James Rowbottom 34 55 0.618
22. George Hewett 71 120 0.592
23. Tom Papley 73 128 0.570
24. Ben McGlynn 50 89 0.562
25. Oliver Florent 58 105 0.552
26. Lewis Jetta 48 87 0.552
27. Callum Sinclair 38 72 0.539
28. Nick Malceski 38 72 0.528
29. Jake Lloyd 94 187 0.503
30. Ted Richards 47 105 0.448
31. Jesse White 8 18 0.444
32. Shane Mumford 17 39 0.436
33. Daniel Menzel 3 7 0.429
34. Nic Newman 13 31 0.419
35. Sam Reid 60 144 0.417
36. Zak Jones 37 90 0.411
37. Tom McCartin 33 82 0.402
38. Rhyce Shaw 28 74 0.378
39. Mike Pyke 31 82 0.378
40. Logan McDonald 6 16 0.375
41. Heath Grundy 61 166 0.367
42. Craig Bird 26 75 0.347
43. Gary Rohan 30 88 0.341
44. Alex Johnson 9 27 0.333
45. Errol Gulden 10 30 0.333
46. Jude Bolton 15 46 0.326
47. Ben Ronke 12 42 0.286
48. Hayden McLean 8 29 0.276
49. Lewis Roberts-Thomson 7 31 0.226
50. Joel Amartey 2 9 0.222
51. Braeden Campbell 4 18 0.222
52. Will Hayward 13 63 0.206
53. Nick Blakey 13 63 0.206
54. Kaiden Brand 1 5 0.200
55. Ryan Clarke 5 25 0.200
56. Harry Cunningham 28 158 0.177
57. Nick Smith 26 159 0.164
58. Dean Towers 9 57 0.158
59. Lewis Melican 8 52 0.154
60. Sam Wicks 5 36 0.139
61. Colin O'Riordan 4 31 0.129
62. Harrison Marsh 3 25 0.120
63. Jackson Thurlow 2 17 0.118
64. Jeremy Laidler 7 61 0.115
65. Sam Naismith 3 30 0.100
66. Brandon Jack 2 28 0.071
67. Robbie Fox 2 54 0.037
68. Andrejs Everitt 1 32 0.031

Then a bunch of players who never got a vote in order of most games:
Martin Mattner (31)
James Bell (25)
Dan Robinson (25)
Dylan Stephens (17)
Tony Armstrong (15)
James Rose (14)
Tom Derickx (13)
Xavier Richards (12)
Toby Nankervis (12)
Mitch Morton (12)
Jed Lamb (12)
Lewis Taylor (11)
Trent Dennis-Lane (8)
Sam Gray (7)
Shane Biggs (6)
Ryley Stoddart (6)
Jordan Foote (6)
Tommy Walsh (5)
Mark Seaby (5)
Elijah Taylor (4)
Matthew Ling (3)
Zac Foot (2)
Angus Sheldrick (2)
Tim Membrey (1)
Michael Talia (1)
Matt Roberts (1)
Jack Hiscox (1)
Darcy Cameron (1)

There goes my plan for work tomorrow

Grand Uncle Horace · Jun 14, 2022

Just wow!!!!! :thumbsu:

Stellar work. I reckon it is worth a standalone thread! Tho maybe it should be attached to the POTY thread. Most people now and the future will be interested and reference it!

Amazed Mattner missed a single vote.

dosser · Jun 15, 2022

Nerds.

Crust · Jun 15, 2022

Interesting chart scaryness.
There has been a lot of complaining on the board that Nick Smith never got a Brownlow vote, yet here he is at no 57, below (on average), Nic Newman, Gary Rohan, Dan Menzel and Jesse White.

caesar88 · Jun 15, 2022

Nick Smith at 57? We are trash at this

Ticky009 · Jun 15, 2022

caesar88 said:
Nick Smith at 57? We are trash at this

Obviously these counts occurred long before I joined the board. No way Smooch would be this low.

Grand Uncle Horace · Jun 15, 2022

Millky95 also did some Trojan labour doing a deep dive on Sam Reid's career as we voted on it on a year by year basis. Here tis'

Sam Reid's votes' history as made by this Board.

"2014 - 2 votes (1 game of 2 votes vs Carlton Round 17) in 20 games
2015 - 17 votes (2 games of 5 votes vs Freo Round 4, Suns Round 23, 1 game of 3 vs Hawthorn in round 8, 2 games of 2 vs Brisbane round 15, GWS Round 21) in 22 games
2016 - 0 votes in 0 games
2017 - 12 votes (1 game of 5 votes vs Bulldogs in Round 2, 1 game of 3 vs Port in Round 1, 1 game of 2 vs North in Round 8, 2 games of 1 vote vs Bulldogs in Round 12, vs Geelong in Round 20) in 22 games
2018 - 1 vote (1 game of 1 vote vs GWS in round 3) in 1 game
2019 - 11 votes (2 games of 5 votes vs Collingwood in Round 10, Freo in Round 18, 1 game of 1 votes vs North in Round in Round 22) in 22 games
2020 - 0 votes in 10 games
2021 - 7 votes (1 game of 5 votes vs Essendon in Round 4, 1 game of 2 vs GWS in Round 5) in 10 games
2022 - 0 votes in 4 games*

TOTAL: 50 votes in 111 games averaging 0.45 votes per game. In games he does poll in he averages 2.94 votes with 6 best on grounds. Highest overall finish is 9th in 2015

*Melbourne game not counted at time of post"

GoTheSwannies · Jun 15, 2022

Grand Uncle Horace said:
This thread consolidates how we as a Swans Board voted on individual player performance.over a decade. It is a resource for current and future members and charts a history of how we rated players. It also sheds light on how we as a Board have assessed performance.

Many regular Board participants have a crack at the weekly voting and as many I am guessing follow the weekly votes and annual award. No-one votes in an off hand manner and the great thing is the respect shown by all for the votes of individuals.

scaryness currently pulls our votes together for 5-1 and Young Player of the Year. He was prevailed upon and did sturdy work pulling both totals for every player over a decade and average votes per game played. Kudos to the scary one!

The result is a helpful resource. Have a look. Bear in mind it captures just the tail-end of some careers such as Goodesy and Pebbles and the beginnings of some of our youngsters who are still finding their way. Here it is

Great work Horace. One thing that immediately stood out was ROK at #5. Goes to show that the coaching staff retired him out at the right time before his performances dipped when the signs were clear. It also highlights how important he was for us (particularly since, IMO, he was an even better HF than he was a midfielder, yet was able to transition to the midfield and be an even more important player for us).

I don't really know the circumstances surrounding him falling out of favour, other than being at least partly due to a fair drop in form/output. But he was a phenomenal player for us for a long time, so kudos to ROK for what he's given to the club during his career. I hope there wasn't a relationship breakdown that contributed, but hats off to ROK for his contribution.

BloodySwan · Jun 15, 2022

Tippett gets dumped on a lot but at 15th in this list shows he brought a lot of value to the team

Millky95 · Jun 15, 2022

caesar88 said:
Nick Smith at 57? We are trash at this

Midfielders award

caesar88 · Jun 15, 2022

Whilst I love the work of the great scaryness, I take very little from that list.

Dawson > Hanners?
Paddy > Mills? (See what I did there)
Warner > Rampe?
Sinclair > Malceski?
Jesse White > Tom McCartin?
Logan > Grundy?

Absolutely not. I enjoy the POTY votes and think it's a fun and constructive way to see who did well in what game, but used over a prolonged period and the results are too easily skewed.

GoTheSwannies · Jun 15, 2022

BloodySwan said:
Tippett gets dumped on a lot but at 15th in this list shows he brought a lot of value to the team

There was a period where he was really dominant. The second half of his first season justified his recruitment but a series of injuries ruined his career. Limped to the end. Bit of a sliding doors moment, had he stayed fit, we would have snagged a couple, almost certainly. Had we shipped him off to the sun's after recruiting buddy, we would have been a better balanced team, but that's all in hindsight. The roll of the dice didn't pay off, what can you do.

Millky95 · Jun 15, 2022

caesar88 said:
Whilst I love the work of the great scaryness, I take very little from that list.

Dawson > Hanners?
Paddy > Mills? (See what I did there)
Warner > Rampe?
Sinclair > Malceski?
Jesse White > Tom McCartin?
Logan > Grundy?

Absolutely not. I enjoy the POTY votes and think it's a fun and constructive way to see who did well in what game, but used over a prolonged period and the results are too easily skewed.

That table is listed by average votes per game. So if you played 10 games but 2 of those were best on ground, you'll be higher than someone who played 150 games but got 100 votes.

Here is the table again but sorted by total votes:

	PLAYER	VOTES	GAMES	AVERAGE VOTES PER GAME
1	Josh Kennedy	439	227	1.934
2	Luke Parker	353	234	1.509
3	Lance Franklin	248	146	1.699
4	Dan Hannebery	210	156	1.346
5	Isaac Heeney	195	141	1.383
6	Kieren Jack	174	167	1.042
7	Dane Rampe	146	202	0.723
8	Jarrad McVeigh	143	156	0.917
9	Callum Mills	140	122	1.148
10	Jake Lloyd	94	187	0.503
11	Jordan Dawson	87	64	1.359
12	Ryan O'Keefe	73	53	1.377
13	Tom Papley	73	128	0.57
14	Kurt Tippett	72	74	0.973
15	George Hewett	71	120	0.592
16	Tom Mitchell	69	65	1.062
17	Aliir Aliir	66	64	1.031
18	Heath Grundy	61	166	0.367
19	Sam Reid	60	144	0.417
20	Oliver Florent	58	105	0.552
21	Ben McGlynn	50	89	0.562
22	Adam Goodes	49	72	0.681
23	Lewis Jetta	48	87	0.552
24	Callum Sinclair	48	89	0.539
25	Ted Richards	47	105	0.448
26	Nick Malceski	38	72	0.528
27	Zak Jones	37	90	0.411
28	James Rowbottom	34	55	0.618
29	Tom McCartin	33	82	0.402
30	Mike Pyke	31	82	0.378
31	Tom Hickey	30	26	1.154
32	Gary Rohan	30	88	0.341
33	Rhyce Shaw	28	74	0.378
34	Harry Cunningham	28	158	0.177
35	Justin McInerney	27	41	0.659
36	Craig Bird	26	75	0.347
37	Nick Smith	26	159	0.164
38	Chad Warner	23	26	0.885
39	Shane Mumford	17	39	0.436
40	Jude Bolton	15	46	0.326
41	Paddy McCartin	13	11	1.182
42	Nic Newman	13	31	0.419
43	Will Hayward	13	63	0.206
44	Nick Blakey	13	63	0.206
45	Ben Ronke	12	42	0.286
46	Peter Ladhams	10	9	1.111
47	Errol Gulden	10	30	0.333
48	Alex Johnson	9	27	0.333
49	Dean Towers	9	57	0.158
50	Jesse White	8	18	0.444
51	Hayden McLean	8	29	0.276
52	Lewis Melican	8	52	0.154
53	Lewis Roberts-Thomson	7	31	0.226
54	Jeremy Laidler	7	61	0.115
55	Logan McDonald	6	16	0.375
56	Ryan Clarke	5	25	0.2
57	Sam Wicks	5	36	0.139
58	Braeden Campbell	4	18	0.222
59	Colin O'Riordan	4	31	0.129
60	Daniel Menzel	3	7	0.429
61	Harrison Marsh	3	25	0.12
62	Sam Naismith	3	30	0.1
63	Joel Amartey	2	9	0.222
64	Jackson Thurlow	2	17	0.118
65	Brandon Jack	2	28	0.071
66	Robbie Fox	2	54	0.037
67	Kaiden Brand	1	5	0.2
68	Andrejs Everitt	1	32	0.031

So now you have:

Hanners > Dawson
Mills > Paddy
Rampe > Warner
Sinclair > Malceski still
T.Mac > White
Grundy > McDonald

And suddenly it makes a bit more sense

caesar88 · Jun 15, 2022

Millky95 said:
That table is listed by average votes per game. So if you played 10 games but 2 of those were best on ground, you'll be higher than someone who played 150 games but got 100 votes.

Here is the table again but sorted by total votes:

PLAYER VOTES GAMES AVERAGE VOTES PER GAME
1
Josh Kennedy
439
227
1.934
2
Luke Parker
353
234
1.509
3
Lance Franklin
248
146
1.699
4
Dan Hannebery
210
156
1.346
5
Isaac Heeney
195
141
1.383
6
Kieren Jack
174
167
1.042
7
Dane Rampe
146
202
0.723
8
Jarrad McVeigh
143
156
0.917
9
Callum Mills
140
122
1.148
10
Jake Lloyd
94
187
0.503
11
Jordan Dawson
87
64
1.359
12
Ryan O'Keefe
73
53
1.377
13
Tom Papley
73
128
0.57
14
Kurt Tippett
72
74
0.973
15
George Hewett
71
120
0.592
16
Tom Mitchell
69
65
1.062
17
Aliir Aliir
66
64
1.031
18
Heath Grundy
61
166
0.367
19
Sam Reid
60
144
0.417
20
Oliver Florent
58
105
0.552
21
Ben McGlynn
50
89
0.562
22
Adam Goodes
49
72
0.681
23
Lewis Jetta
48
87
0.552
24
Callum Sinclair
48
89
0.539
25
Ted Richards
47
105
0.448
26
Nick Malceski
38
72
0.528
27
Zak Jones
37
90
0.411
28
James Rowbottom
34
55
0.618
29
Tom McCartin
33
82
0.402
30
Mike Pyke
31
82
0.378
31
Tom Hickey
30
26
1.154
32
Gary Rohan
30
88
0.341
33
Rhyce Shaw
28
74
0.378
34
Harry Cunningham
28
158
0.177
35
Justin McInerney
27
41
0.659
36
Craig Bird
26
75
0.347
37
Nick Smith
26
159
0.164
38
Chad Warner
23
26
0.885
39
Shane Mumford
17
39
0.436
40
Jude Bolton
15
46
0.326
41
Paddy McCartin
13
11
1.182
42
Nic Newman
13
31
0.419
43
Will Hayward
13
63
0.206
44
Nick Blakey
13
63
0.206
45
Ben Ronke
12
42
0.286
46
Peter Ladhams
10
9
1.111
47
Errol Gulden
10
30
0.333
48
Alex Johnson
9
27
0.333
49
Dean Towers
9
57
0.158
50
Jesse White
8
18
0.444
51
Hayden McLean
8
29
0.276
52
Lewis Melican
8
52
0.154
53
Lewis Roberts-Thomson
7
31
0.226
54
Jeremy Laidler
7
61
0.115
55
Logan McDonald
6
16
0.375
56
Ryan Clarke
5
25
0.2
57
Sam Wicks
5
36
0.139
58
Braeden Campbell
4
18
0.222
59
Colin O'Riordan
4
31
0.129
60
Daniel Menzel
3
7
0.429
61
Harrison Marsh
3
25
0.12
62
Sam Naismith
3
30
0.1
63
Joel Amartey
2
9
0.222
64
Jackson Thurlow
2
17
0.118
65
Brandon Jack
2
28
0.071
66
Robbie Fox
2
54
0.037
67
Kaiden Brand
1
5
0.2
68
Andrejs Everitt
1
32
0.031

So now you have:

Hanners > Dawson
Mills > Paddy
Rampe > Warner
Sinclair > Malceski still
T.Mac > White
Grundy > McDonald

And suddenly it makes a bit more sense

Yeah that's a far better way IMO. It's too easy to get only 1 vote or not poll votes at all in games, especially in quality sides like we have had over the last decade where any game could produce between 5-10 worthy vote-getters. Not to mention sporadic great games like the ones Reid, White & McLean have had skew a players numbers disproportionately.

I'm being fussy here I know but I will defend my defenders to my last dying breath.

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