Analysis History: How our Board rated/voted on player performance over a decade

[Grand Uncle Horace]

This thread consolidates how we as a Swans Board voted on individual player performance.over a decade. It is a resource for current and future members and charts a history of how we rated players. It also sheds light on how we as a Board have assessed performance.

Many regular Board participants have a crack at the weekly voting and as many I am guessing follow the weekly votes and annual award. No-one votes in an off hand manner and the great thing is the respect shown by all for the votes of individuals.

scaryness currently pulls our votes together for 5-1 and Young Player of the Year. He was prevailed upon and did sturdy work pulling both totals for every player over a decade and average votes per game played. Kudos to the scary one!

The result is a helpful resource. Have a look. Bear in mind it captures just the tail-end of some careers such as Goodesy and Pebbles and the beginnings of some of our youngsters who are still finding their way. Here it is

	PLAYER	VOTES	GAMES	AVERAGE VOTES PER GAME
1.	Josh Kennedy	439	227	1.934
2.	Lance Franklin	248	146	1.699
3.	Luke Parker	353	234	1.509
4.	Isaac Heeney	195	141	1.383
5.	Ryan O'Keefe	73	53	1.377
6.	Jordan Dawson	87	64	1.359
7.	Dan Hannebery	210	156	1.346
8.	Paddy McCartin	13	11	1.182
9.	Tom Hickey	30	26	1.154
10.	Callum Mills	140	122	1.148
11.	Peter Ladhams	10	9	1.111
12.	Tom Mitchell	69	65	1.062
13.	Kieren Jack	174	167	1.042
14.	Aliir Aliir	66	64	1.031
15.	Kurt Tippett	72	74	0.973
16.	Jarrad McVeigh	143	156	0.917
17.	Chad Warner	23	26	0.885
18.	Dane Rampe	146	202	0.723
19.	Adam Goodes	49	72	0.681
20.	Justin McInerney	27	41	0.659
21.	James Rowbottom	34	55	0.618
22.	George Hewett	71	120	0.592
23.	Tom Papley	73	128	0.570
24.	Ben McGlynn	50	89	0.562
25.	Oliver Florent	58	105	0.552
26.	Lewis Jetta	48	87	0.552
27.	Callum Sinclair	48	89	0.539
28.	Nick Malceski	38	72	0.528
29.	Jake Lloyd	94	187	0.503
30.	Ted Richards	47	105	0.448
31.	Jesse White	8	18	0.444
32.	Shane Mumford	17	39	0.436
33.	Daniel Menzel	3	7	0.429
34.	Nic Newman	13	31	0.419
35.	Sam Reid	60	144	0.417
36.	Zak Jones	37	90	0.411
37.	Tom McCartin	33	82	0.402
38.	Rhyce Shaw	28	74	0.378
39.	Mike Pyke	31	82	0.378
40.	Logan McDonald	6	16	0.375
41.	Heath Grundy	61	166	0.367
42.	Craig Bird	26	75	0.347
43.	Gary Rohan	30	88	0.341
44.	Alex Johnson	9	27	0.333
45.	Errol Gulden	10	30	0.333
46.	Jude Bolton	15	46	0.326
47.	Ben Ronke	12	42	0.286
48.	Hayden McLean	8	29	0.276
49.	Lewis Roberts-Thomson	7	31	0.226
50.	Joel Amartey	2	9	0.222
51.	Braeden Campbell	4	18	0.222
52.	Will Hayward	13	63	0.206
53.	Nick Blakey	13	63	0.206
54.	Kaiden Brand	1	5	0.200
55.	Ryan Clarke	5	25	0.200
56.	Harry Cunningham	28	158	0.177
57.	Nick Smith	26	159	0.164
58.	Dean Towers	9	57	0.158
59.	Lewis Melican	8	52	0.154
60.	Sam Wicks	5	36	0.139
61.	Colin O'Riordan	4	31	0.129
62.	Harrison Marsh	3	25	0.120
63.	Jackson Thurlow	2	17	0.118
64.	Jeremy Laidler	7	61	0.115
65.	Sam Naismith	3	30	0.100
66.	Brandon Jack	2	28	0.071
67.	Robbie Fox	2	54	0.037
68.	Andrejs Everitt	1	32	0.031

Then a bunch of players who never got a vote in order of most games:
Martin Mattner (31)
James Bell (25)
Dan Robinson (25)
Dylan Stephens (17)
Tony Armstrong (15)
James Rose (14)
Tom Derickx (13)
Xavier Richards (12)
Toby Nankervis (12)
Mitch Morton (12)
Jed Lamb (12)
Lewis Taylor (11)
Trent Dennis-Lane (8)
Sam Gray (7)
Shane Biggs (6)
Ryley Stoddart (6)
Jordan Foote (6)
Tommy Walsh (5)
Mark Seaby (5)
Elijah Taylor (4)
Matthew Ling (3)
Zac Foot (2)
Angus Sheldrick (2)
Tim Membrey (1)
Michael Talia (1)
Matt Roberts (1)
Jack Hiscox (1)
Darcy Cameron (1

 

[GoTheSwannies]

That table is listed by average votes per game. So if you played 10 games but 2 of those were best on ground, you'll be higher than someone who played 150 games but got 100 votes.

Here is the table again but sorted by total votes:

	PLAYER	VOTES	GAMES	AVERAGE VOTES PER GAME
1​	Josh Kennedy	439​	227​	1.934​
2​	Luke Parker	353​	234​	1.509​
3​	Lance Franklin	248​	146​	1.699​
4​	Dan Hannebery	210​	156​	1.346​
5​	Isaac Heeney	195​	141​	1.383​
6​	Kieren Jack	174​	167​	1.042​
7​	Dane Rampe	146​	202​	0.723​
8​	Jarrad McVeigh	143​	156​	0.917​
9​	Callum Mills	140​	122​	1.148​
10​	Jake Lloyd	94​	187​	0.503​
11​	Jordan Dawson	87​	64​	1.359​
12​	Ryan O'Keefe	73​	53​	1.377​
13​	Tom Papley	73​	128​	0.57​
14​	Kurt Tippett	72​	74​	0.973​
15​	George Hewett	71​	120​	0.592​
16​	Tom Mitchell	69​	65​	1.062​
17​	Aliir Aliir	66​	64​	1.031​
18​	Heath Grundy	61​	166​	0.367​
19​	Sam Reid	60​	144​	0.417​
20​	Oliver Florent	58​	105​	0.552​
21​	Ben McGlynn	50​	89​	0.562​
22​	Adam Goodes	49​	72​	0.681​
23​	Lewis Jetta	48​	87​	0.552​
24​	Callum Sinclair	48​	89​	0.539​
25​	Ted Richards	47​	105​	0.448​
26​	Nick Malceski	38​	72​	0.528​
27​	Zak Jones	37​	90​	0.411​
28​	James Rowbottom	34​	55​	0.618​
29​	Tom McCartin	33​	82​	0.402​
30​	Mike Pyke	31​	82​	0.378​
31​	Tom Hickey	30​	26​	1.154​
32​	Gary Rohan	30​	88​	0.341​
33​	Rhyce Shaw	28​	74​	0.378​
34​	Harry Cunningham	28​	158​	0.177​
35​	Justin McInerney	27​	41​	0.659​
36​	Craig Bird	26​	75​	0.347​
37​	Nick Smith	26​	159​	0.164​
38​	Chad Warner	23​	26​	0.885​
39​	Shane Mumford	17​	39​	0.436​
40​	Jude Bolton	15​	46​	0.326​
41​	Paddy McCartin	13​	11​	1.182​
42​	Nic Newman	13​	31​	0.419​
43​	Will Hayward	13​	63​	0.206​
44​	Nick Blakey	13​	63​	0.206​
45​	Ben Ronke	12​	42​	0.286​
46​	Peter Ladhams	10​	9​	1.111​
47​	Errol Gulden	10​	30​	0.333​
48​	Alex Johnson	9​	27​	0.333​
49​	Dean Towers	9​	57​	0.158​
50​	Jesse White	8​	18​	0.444​
51​	Hayden McLean	8​	29​	0.276​
52​	Lewis Melican	8​	52​	0.154​
53​	Lewis Roberts-Thomson	7​	31​	0.226​
54​	Jeremy Laidler	7​	61​	0.115​
55​	Logan McDonald	6​	16​	0.375​
56​	Ryan Clarke	5​	25​	0.2​
57​	Sam Wicks	5​	36​	0.139​
58​	Braeden Campbell	4​	18​	0.222​
59​	Colin O'Riordan	4​	31​	0.129​
60​	Daniel Menzel	3​	7​	0.429​
61​	Harrison Marsh	3​	25​	0.12​
62​	Sam Naismith	3​	30​	0.1​
63​	Joel Amartey	2​	9​	0.222​
64​	Jackson Thurlow	2​	17​	0.118​
65​	Brandon Jack	2​	28​	0.071​
66​	Robbie Fox	2​	54​	0.037​
67​	Kaiden Brand	1​	5​	0.2​
68​	Andrejs Everitt	1​	32​	0.031​

So now you have:

Hanners > Dawson
Mills > Paddy
Rampe > Warner
Sinclair > Malceski still
T.Mac > White
Grundy > McDonald

And suddenly it makes a bit more sense

I was thinking the better way to do it is to have a tiered system based on number of games played. Maybe <50, 50 -100, 100 - 200, 200+.

The other thought I had, when converting poty scores into judging whos most important to the team, the list favours players who contribute to winning the game, while largely ignoring players who played a significant role in negating the opposition (evidenced by Nick Smith, Grundy, and to a lesser extent Richards, receiving fewer votes even though they contributed greatly to any wins they were involved in). To balance it, we'd need an equivalent defensive poty voting system- but that would be a little OTT. I guess the simple approach is to bear that in mind when interpreting the results

 

[Millky95]

The other thought I had, when converting poty scores into judging whos most important to the team, the list favours players who contribute to winning the game, while largely ignoring players who played a significant role in negating the opposition (evidenced by Nick Smith, Grundy, and to a lesser extent Richards, receiving fewer votes even though they contributed greatly to any wins they were involved in). To balance it, we'd need an equivalent defensive poty voting system- but that would be a little OTT. I guess the simple approach is to bear that in mind when interpreting the results

Yeah people will give the 5s and 4s to the mids who got the ball or the forwards who kicked the goals unless someone has a massive defensive game.

And that defensive game will all be about rebounds and intercept marks as opposed to blocking leads, spoils and harrassing the ball out of bounds. Which is why Aliir is higher than Grundy and Richards and why P.Mac's average votes is so high.

And how Lloyd is top 10. I reckon Blakey's average since he moved to half back would be very high

 

[Crust]

Jude Bolton

Jude Bolton

Age

44

Ht

181cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.9

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

8.4

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.6

5star

CL

3.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.6

4star

very low, but I suppose the figures are at the end of his career.
Same with the Hyphen.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Yeah people will give the 5s and 4s to the mids who got the ball or the forwards who kicked the goals unless someone has a massive defensive game.

And that defensive game will all be about rebounds and intercept marks as opposed to blocking leads, spoils and harrassing the ball out of bounds. Which is why Aliir is higher than Grundy and Richards and why P.Mac's average votes is so high.

And how Lloyd is top 10. I reckon Blakey's average since he moved to half back would be very high

Thinking back to the Richards/ Grundy/ Nick Smith era. Richards took the majority of votes, largely because he was amazing at reading the play, beating his opponent, and taking big intercepting marks. He was an absolute pleasure to watch during that era. But what made Richards so effective was the fact that Grundy had the monster forward totally blanketed, which allowed Richards to play a much more attacking defensive role. Richards was the one let off the leash by the fact that Grundy and Smith played their roles to perfection. So imo, any votes that go to either of the 3 are a vote for the entire unit.

I think back on that defensive team very fondly. They were seriously an elite unit. And watching Richards out position, out-read and out-mark his opponent with such consistency was an amazing sight.

I've said it before, but watching Richards do what he did in defence was as enjoyable for me as seeing our forwards kick goals at the other end. But Richards certainly played his position with flair.

 

[Crust]

The table also shows the impact of Paddy McCartin and to a lesser extent, Ladhams, over a very small number of games.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

The table also shows the impact of Paddy McCartin and to a lesser extent, Ladhams, over a very small number of games.

While I agree, I think it's partly due to the focus people are putting on them, which is natural when we have a new player in the team, we tend to focus our attention more than usual. In saying that, it does show that they have had good performances, suggesting that they were really good pick ups for us.

Their scores will balance out over a couple of seasons.

Edit: I accidentally said they were not Good pick ups for us. But that was an error.

 

[Crust]

While I agree, I think it's partly due to the focus people are putting on them, which is natural when we have a new player in the team, we tend to focus our attention more than usual. In saying that, it does show that they have had good performances, suggesting that they were not really good pick ups for us.

Their scores will balance out over a couple of seasons.

I hope not!

 

[GoTheSwannies]

I hope not!

Fair point, and a good point! My comment was more about the focus no longer being on them, but I'd certainly welcome them continuing to pull in the votes for their performances. And thinking about it, I'm sure they will.

 

[Kirkswan]

Nick Smith at 57? We are trash at this

Oh yeah! We (as a group) tend to vote for those who stand out on TV.

For years Nick was considered a list clogger, until one of the coaches talked about him in an interview... and all of a sudden we could see what his impact was!

In our defence, it is another of those 'no stat' roles that the Swans are big on.

 

[caesar88]

Oh yeah! We (as a group) tend to vote for those who stand out on TV.

For years Nick was considered a list clogger, until one of the coaches talked about him in an interview... and all of a sudden we could see what his impact was!

In our defence, it is another of those 'no stat' roles that the Swans are big on.

Trust me KS, play as a forward and get your arse kicked by defenders all throughout your junior years and you'll grow a natural appreciation for the work they do!

 

[hairy biker]

Really interesting, thanks scaryness, Millky95, Grand Uncle Horace

Paddy Mac has certainly made his mark (boom boom), 8th in the average votes.

 

[scaryness]

Yeah that's a far better way IMO. It's too easy to get only 1 vote or not poll votes at all in games, especially in quality sides like we have had over the last decade where any game could produce between 5-10 worthy vote-getters. Not to mention sporadic great games like the ones Reid, White & McLean have had skew a players numbers disproportionately.

I'm being fussy here I know but I will defend my defenders to my last dying breath.

I ordered the OP how I was asked to, and putting game minimums at that point felt arbitrary

 

[The King!]

how often did scaryness not vote for Luke Parker

26

Luke Parker

Age

31

Ht

183cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.2

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.8

5star

D

22.1

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

9.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.5

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

8.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

 

[RubbaDuck]

2014 - 2 votes (1 game of 2 votes vs Carlton Round 17) in 20 games
2015 - 17 votes (2 games of 5 votes vs Freo Round 4, Suns Round 23, 1 game of 3 vs Hawthorn in round 8, 2 games of 2 vs Brisbane round 15, GWS Round 21) in 22 games
2016 - 0 votes in 0 games
2017 - 12 votes (1 game of 5 votes vs Bulldogs in Round 2, 1 game of 3 vs Port in Round 1, 1 game of 2 vs North in Round 8, 2 games of 1 vote vs Bulldogs in Round 12, vs Geelong in Round 20) in 22 games
2018 - 1 vote (1 game of 1 vote vs GWS in round 3) in 1 game
2019 - 11 votes (2 games of 5 votes vs Collingwood in Round 10, Freo in Round 18, 1 game of 1 votes vs North in Round in Round 22) in 22 games
2020 - 0 votes in 10 games
2021 - 7 votes (1 game of 5 votes vs Essendon in Round 4, 1 game of 2 vs GWS in Round 5) in 10 games
2022 - 0 votes in 4 games*

TOTAL: 50 votes in 111 games averaging 0.45 votes per game. In games he does poll in he averages 2.94 votes with 6 best on grounds. Highest overall finish is 9th in 2015

*Melbourne game not counted at time of post

How could he not get votes for the Richmond game?

 

[CheapCharlie]

This is probably not the right thread, but I just spent too long counting this up from 2012-R12,2022

	PLAYER	VOTES	GAMES	AVERAGE VOTES PER GAME
1.	Josh Kennedy	439	227	1.934
2.	Lance Franklin	248	146	1.699
3.	Luke Parker	353	234	1.509
4.	Isaac Heeney	195	141	1.383
5.	Ryan O'Keefe	73	53	1.377
6.	Jordan Dawson	87	64	1.359
7.	Dan Hannebery	210	156	1.346
8.	Paddy McCartin	13	11	1.182
9.	Tom Hickey	30	26	1.154
10.	Callum Mills	140	122	1.148
11.	Peter Ladhams	10	9	1.111
12.	Tom Mitchell	69	65	1.062
13.	Kieren Jack	174	167	1.042
14.	Aliir Aliir	66	64	1.031
15.	Kurt Tippett	72	74	0.973
16.	Jarrad McVeigh	143	156	0.917
17.	Chad Warner	23	26	0.885
18.	Dane Rampe	146	202	0.723
19.	Adam Goodes	49	72	0.681
20.	Justin McInerney	27	41	0.659
21.	James Rowbottom	34	55	0.618
22.	George Hewett	71	120	0.592
23.	Tom Papley	73	128	0.570
24.	Ben McGlynn	50	89	0.562
25.	Oliver Florent	58	105	0.552
26.	Lewis Jetta	48	87	0.552
27.	Callum Sinclair	48	89	0.539
28.	Nick Malceski	38	72	0.528
29.	Jake Lloyd	94	187	0.503
30.	Ted Richards	47	105	0.448
31.	Jesse White	8	18	0.444
32.	Shane Mumford	17	39	0.436
33.	Daniel Menzel	3	7	0.429
34.	Nic Newman	13	31	0.419
35.	Sam Reid	60	144	0.417
36.	Zak Jones	37	90	0.411
37.	Tom McCartin	33	82	0.402
38.	Rhyce Shaw	28	74	0.378
39.	Mike Pyke	31	82	0.378
40.	Logan McDonald	6	16	0.375
41.	Heath Grundy	61	166	0.367
42.	Craig Bird	26	75	0.347
43.	Gary Rohan	30	88	0.341
44.	Alex Johnson	9	27	0.333
45.	Errol Gulden	10	30	0.333
46.	Jude Bolton	15	46	0.326
47.	Ben Ronke	12	42	0.286
48.	Hayden McLean	8	29	0.276
49.	Lewis Roberts-Thomson	7	31	0.226
50.	Joel Amartey	2	9	0.222
51.	Braeden Campbell	4	18	0.222
52.	Will Hayward	13	63	0.206
53.	Nick Blakey	13	63	0.206
54.	Kaiden Brand	1	5	0.200
55.	Ryan Clarke	5	25	0.200
56.	Harry Cunningham	28	158	0.177
57.	Nick Smith	26	159	0.164
58.	Dean Towers	9	57	0.158
59.	Lewis Melican	8	52	0.154
60.	Sam Wicks	5	36	0.139
61.	Colin O'Riordan	4	31	0.129
62.	Harrison Marsh	3	25	0.120
63.	Jackson Thurlow	2	17	0.118
64.	Jeremy Laidler	7	61	0.115
65.	Sam Naismith	3	30	0.100
66.	Brandon Jack	2	28	0.071
67.	Robbie Fox	2	54	0.037
68.	Andrejs Everitt	1	32	0.031

Then a bunch of players who never got a vote in order of most games:
Martin Mattner (31)
James Bell (25)
Dan Robinson (25)
Dylan Stephens (17)
Tony Armstrong (15)
James Rose (14)
Tom Derickx (13)
Xavier Richards (12)
Toby Nankervis (12)
Mitch Morton (12)
Jed Lamb (12)
Lewis Taylor (11)
Trent Dennis-Lane (8)
Sam Gray (7)
Shane Biggs (6)
Ryley Stoddart (6)
Jordan Foote (6)
Tommy Walsh (5)
Mark Seaby (5)
Elijah Taylor (4)
Matthew Ling (3)
Zac Foot (2)
Angus Sheldrick (2)
Tim Membrey (1)
Michael Talia (1)
Matt Roberts (1)
Jack Hiscox (1)
Darcy Cameron (1)

What i see here is:
Tom Mitchell
Jordan Dawson
Aliir Aliir
All in the top 15 and no longer playing with us

 

[scaryness]

how often did scaryness not vote for Luke Parker

2018 I reckon he must have been in my votes every game and he lost to Heeney by 1 vote

 

[Gimmeafree]

This thread consolidates how we as a Swans Board voted on individual player performance.over a decade. It is a resource for current and future members and charts a history of how we rated players. It also sheds light on how we as a Board have assessed performance.

Many regular Board participants have a crack at the weekly voting and as many I am guessing follow the weekly votes and annual award. No-one votes in an off hand manner and the great thing is the respect shown by all for the votes of individuals.

scaryness currently pulls our votes together for 5-1 and Young Player of the Year. He was prevailed upon and did sturdy work pulling both totals for every player over a decade and average votes per game played. Kudos to the scary one!

The result is a helpful resource. Have a look. Bear in mind it captures just the tail-end of some careers such as Goodesy and Pebbles and the beginnings of some of our youngsters who are still finding their way. Here it is

Just read this great thread, thanks GUH. Mitch Morton without a vote- that’s harsh given the 2012 GF. Still remember chanting Mitch MORRRRTON in front of the hawks cheer squad.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Just read this great thread, thanks GUH. Mitch Morton without a vote- that’s harsh given the 2012 GF. Still remember chanting Mitch MORRRRTON in front of the hawks cheer squad.

Mitch is a fekkin legend. The troubles that he overcame just to play came out post retirement. They add uncalibrated lustre to his career and his efforts on the Great Day.