How does a player like Joel Selwood go number 6 in a draft?

[Parallel Andy]

You can't be serious. Diesel was as good a player to watch live as anyone I've seen. Certainly not for his physical capabilities, but the dominance of his game was no less mesmerizing than an Ablett or Carey.

Sometimes when Diesel played it was almost like he was a chess player and his teamates were his pieces. He would direct them to position at stoppages or as he was running downfield and basically manufacture goals with his ability to see how the play would unfold.

His vision and awareness was easily the best I've seen in a player, regularly spotting up the best positioned player from deep within a pack. He won plenty of contested footy and racked up a ton of clearances and possessions. With his vision and equisite skills this created a nightmare for the opposition.

If you never got to really watch Diesel in action it's a genuine pity and i don't mean that condescendingly. Like Ablett, he regularly did things no other player could; certanily not as spectacularly as Ablett, but it would leave you just shaking your head at his genius just the same.

He also remains the only player to have won dual AFLPA MVP's and dual Brownlow Medals.

I obviously don't rate him as highly as you.
But then I'm not a Carlton Supporter.
Seriously, I think he was very good, just not that good.
Ablett and Daicos, now I'd be left shaking my head at their genius.
Matter of opinion I suppose.

 

[SirJimi05]

Because Dean Cox was an unco youngster who struggled badly early on, and I'm pretty sure Essendon kept very quiet about Hird until they drafted him. Think he played junior footy in Canberra hidden away.

Not really. Hird's grandfather had to plead with the Bombers to recruit him as they were turned off by the fact that he had hardly played any footy due to chronic injuries. But yes he did play his junior footy in Canberra and this is the reason he prefered to wear long sleeves throughout his career.

 

[Duskfire]

You can't be serious. Diesel was as good a player to watch live as anyone I've seen. Certainly not for his physical capabilities, but the dominance of his game was no less mesmerizing than an Ablett or Carey.

Sometimes when Diesel played it was almost like he was a chess player and his teamates were his pieces. He would direct them to position at stoppages or as he was running downfield and basically manufacture goals with his ability to see how the play would unfold.

His vision and awareness was easily the best I've seen in a player, regularly spotting up the best positioned player from deep within a pack. He won plenty of contested footy and racked up a ton of clearances and possessions. With his vision and equisite skills this created a nightmare for the opposition.

If you never got to really watch Diesel in action it's a genuine pity and i don't mean that condescendingly. Like Ablett, he regularly did things no other player could; certanily not as spectacularly as Ablett, but it would leave you just shaking your head at his genius just the same.

He also remains the only player to have won dual AFLPA MVP's and dual Brownlow Medals.

Summed it up perfectly for me. Williams was an absolute genius and the greatest read of play ever. He was never a fan spectacle like Ablett or Lockett or people of that nature, but those who paid attention understood just how truly brilliant he was. Rather then an athlete, he was more of a thinkers type of footballer and such an insane ball magnet that it seemed as if the ball did truly follow him.

Midfielders today hold nothing against Williams. Then again, it is a different kind of game.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

You can't be serious. Diesel was as good a player to watch live as anyone I've seen. Certainly not for his physical capabilities, but the dominance of his game was no less mesmerizing than an Ablett or Carey.

Sometimes when Diesel played it was almost like he was a chess player and his teamates were his pieces. He would direct them to position at stoppages or as he was running downfield and basically manufacture goals with his ability to see how the play would unfold.

His vision and awareness was easily the best I've seen in a player, regularly spotting up the best positioned player from deep within a pack. He won plenty of contested footy and racked up a ton of clearances and possessions. With his vision and equisite skills this created a nightmare for the opposition.

If you never got to really watch Diesel in action it's a genuine pity and i don't mean that condescendingly. Like Ablett, he regularly did things no other player could; certanily not as spectacularly as Ablett, but it would leave you just shaking your head at his genius just the same.

He also remains the only player to have won dual AFLPA MVP's and dual Brownlow Medals.

Get your hand off it. Diesel was short, fat, slow, couldn't kick, couldn't run, couldn't take a mark to save his life, and didn't chase his opponent.



Is the best midfielder I've ever seen play. Like a certain other player that's under-rated on here - he does the things that don't make highlights packages.

 

[Monkey King]

I obviously don't rate him as highly as you.
But then I'm not a Carlton Supporter.
Seriously, I think he was very good, just not that good.
Ablett and Daicos, now I'd be left shaking my head at their genius.
Matter of opinion I suppose.

Very good players don't win...

2 X Brownlow
2 x AFLPA MVP
6 x AA
AFL TOC selection

Only greats manage such feats.

I loved Diesel at his best, which was as a Swans player. If you're going to reduce this to my team your team then you've obviously missed the point. Read some of the posts surrounding yours to get some perspective.

I get the feeling you never really watched his halcyon years going by your comments. Daicos and Ablett highlight reels certainly would leave you shaking your head, which is where I can only assume you've sourced the material on which you base your opinions.

Allow me to arc back to your original comment by asking you one question... do you actually rate Hird, Buckley or Voss above Diesel?

 

[yaco55]

Very good players don't win...

2 X Brownlow
2 x AFLPA MVP
6 x AA
AFL TOC selection

Only greats manage such feats.

I loved Diesel at his best, which was as a Swans player. If you're going to reduce this to my team your team then you've obviously missed the point. Read some of the posts surrounding yours to get some perspective.

I get the feeling you never really watched his halcyon years going by your comments. Daicos and Ablett highlight reels certainly would leave you shaking your head, which is where I can only assume you've sourced the material on which you base your opinions.

Allow me to arc back to your original comment by asking you one question... do you actually rate Hird, Buckley or Voss above Diesel?

Williams was lauded for having exceptional handball skills BUT his kicking was just as good.

 

[Zvim]

He would be their best player and Captain.

I agree, but I don't think he would be half as good when he cops the best tagger of each team and with a significantly inferior group to support him.

As much as teams would love to stick a tagger on Selwood, Ablett is far more dangerous.

 

[Zvim]

Such ignorance.

It is not ignorance, Geelong have a massively good midfield. You see midfielders leave extremely talented midfields and not be the same players at their destination, happens all the time. It is ignorance to not factor the sheer talent around him.

 

[DBAH0]

It will be a while before the Gumbleton selection plays out and I can see why Essendon would have taken him with 2 aging KPP forwards.

But Selwood would be exactly what Essendon need, a player to add substance to that midfield. Which well, lacks a bit.

Looking at how Roughead has developed for instance, Essendon would be desperately hoping 2 years from now that Gumbleton can develop into that type of player.

It's too bad he's been so injury prone, because Selwood would be exactly what Essendon's midfield needs (I think they have enough pace now, but not enough clearance winners besides the likes of Watson).

 

[Carlton_Blues]

He went no. 6 in the same way Buddy went no.5, recruiters really have NFI how to tell if a kid is gonna be a star player at AFL level.

 

[go team]

Am I the only one that cannot comprehend the fact that full time talent scouts can confuse his ability with guys above him. My club included.

The Essendon Football club has asked me to pass this message onto you:

If you can find a way to travel back in time to 2005, they will offer you a position as a full time talent scout.

Your benefit of hindsight would put you well above any recruiting manager available at the time.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Not really. Hird's grandfather had to plead with the Bombers to recruit him as they were turned off by the fact that he had hardly played any footy due to chronic injuries. But yes he did play his junior footy in Canberra and this is the reason he prefered to wear long sleeves throughout his career.

Soft, I played footy in Canberra without sleeves for years

 

[krisholio14]

I agree, but I don't think he would be half as good when he cops the best tagger of each team and with a significantly inferior group to support him.

As much as teams would love to stick a tagger on Selwood, Ablett is far more dangerous.

It is not ignorance, Geelong have a massively good midfield. You see midfielders leave extremely talented midfields and not be the same players at their destination, happens all the time. It is ignorance to not factor the sheer talent around him.

Seriously, do you actually watch any matches? Geez, some of the stuff you come out with sometimes I don't know.....

I remember clearly in 2007, when Joel Selwood, who had played all of maybe 10 games, in a match against the Swans (who had just made consecutive GF's), was sat on his arse 3 or 4 times in the first five minutes of the game. Quality teams don't target players like that unless they believe that player can do them some serious damage.

He also finished 5th in our B&F last year and played for Victoria.

Not bad for a bloke who you are inferring only looks good because he's being ignored by opposition teams.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Not bad for a bloke who you are inferring only looks good because he's being ignored by opposition teams.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't inferring that. He was just saying that young players are more likely to play better footy when they have good players around them becuase they aren't likely to cop the oppositions best tagger.

Take Marc Murphy for example (now I'm not comparing the two so please don't turn this into a Murphy V Selwood debate) but 2007 when Carlton was without Nick Stevens and had no Judd, Murph really struggled because he was our number one midfielder and he really struggled with the extra attention.
2008 we had Judd and Stevens which meant that opposition coaches would put there 2nd or 3rd best tagger onto Murphy.

Murphy finished 2nd in our best and fairest last year and played for Australia.

 

[krisholio14]

I'm pretty sure he wasn't inferring that. He was just saying that young players are more likely to play better footy when they have good players around them becuase they aren't likely to cop the oppositions best tagger.

Take Marc Murphy for example (now I'm not comparing the two so please don't turn this into a Murphy V Selwood debate) but 2007 when Carlton was without Nick Stevens and had no Judd, Murph really struggled because he was our number one midfielder and he really struggled with the extra attention.
2008 we had Judd and Stevens which meant that opposition coaches would put there 2nd or 3rd best tagger onto Murphy.

Murphy finished 2nd in our best and fairest last year and played for Australia.

Wait a minute....

How many taggers do teams play? One? Two? I don't know of any teams that play 3 or more taggers.

I can tell you now, i've seen Selwood get tagged by the teams best tagger before. In the aforementioned Swans game Brett Kirk took him early in that encounter. Now by my reckoning, he's one of the best two or three taggers in the game today.

Zvim has inferred he's not proven anything and isn't as good as people make out because he doesn't cop the best tagger, or even a tagger at all because they are too busy with the likes of Ablett, Bartel and Corey.

The truth is he HAS copped the oppositions best tagger at times, and one thing he has proven is that he is very very good at breaking a tag for a young bloke, and thats one of the reasons he is so highly rated.

Besides, I don't care what the quality of the opposition you're copping week in week out is, you don't become an automatic selection in a premiership side in your first season without being a bloody good player.

As for Murphy, well, I think he's shown on numerous occasions over the last couple of years that like Selwood, he's an old head on young shoulders. Hence why he too has recieved his fair share of accolades for one just starting out in his career. I also don't think he was fully fit in 2007 TBH.

 

[Parallel Andy]

Very good players don't win...

2 X Brownlow
2 x AFLPA MVP
6 x AA
AFL TOC selection

Only greats manage such feats.

I loved Diesel at his best, which was as a Swans player. If you're going to reduce this to my team your team then you've obviously missed the point. Read some of the posts surrounding yours to get some perspective.

I get the feeling you never really watched his halcyon years going by your comments. Daicos and Ablett highlight reels certainly would leave you shaking your head, which is where I can only assume you've sourced the material on which you base your opinions.

Allow me to arc back to your original comment by asking you one question... do you actually rate Hird, Buckley or Voss above Diesel?

Yes I watched him. I have given my opinion.
There are no terms and conditions on my opinion.
It is my opinion, like it or not.
No I didn't source my material, it's firmly implanted in my memories.
Awards do not make a great player.
Scottie West, where are his awards?
Adam Goodes 2 Brownlows, is he really that good?
Gary Ablett Junior should have a Brownlow already and doesn't.
Awards, as well as stats do not necessarily indicate a great player.
No Williams is not as good as the 3 mentioned.

 

[MinerBoy]

Fair enough but it appears clubs also didn't see his talent because you'd think the knees would have been assessed a bit better.

Gotta wonder how someone like Gibbs created a media frenzy at number one when in reality he is one of the poorer number one picks we've seen. He has talent but not in the same league as most number one rated mids of recent drafts.

Disagree about Gibbs. He will be top shelf.

 

[Sezzac1]

How can recruiters dissmiss stars based on risk, are they stupid or something? Sure some risks don't work out but the biggest risk is not taking guys because of things like junior injuries, possible attitude etc.

Because it is a high paying job they want to keep it. So in the end if they have the choice of a player who has some injury concerns and may fall over (Therefore putting pressure on their decision making process) or the player who is a safer bet they go safe and keep their job. It's just human nature.

Recruiters can only go by what the club Doctors tell them and if the Dr. has concerns then no recruiter is going to risk making the call over a medical call.

The Hawks had 5 picks ? inside 25 the year they picked Muston so they could take the risk with him at 20 something but they wouldn't risk an early pick on him if they only had the 2 picks inside 15.

Plenty of medicos have said Selwoods knee would last past 4 or 5 seasons because he apparently has bone on bone. The caliber of the kid has made him and instant star rather than taking 2 years to get going then only lasting another two as has been predicted.

Time will tell

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

So lets crystal ball it.

Selwood plays out 09 and 10 at his current levels, possibly winning Geelong another premiership.

At 24, with two premierships, high finishes in the brownlow, and a club B&F he goes for a knee op.

He comes back, having lost the edge on his running, but is a 'burst' player, who can play as a supersub, playing 30-40 minutes a game, as the primary inside mid - something akin to Harris at Kangaroos.

Would that be a failure out of #6? I think not. That's quite possibly 'worst case' too. Would you give up #1 for 5 excellent years service? Of course you would.

 

[1981]

Dodgy knee and was injured all year when drafted.

Carlton had him at 2 with Gibbs at 1.

Blues took the safer option given Selwood's injuries

 

[Monkey King]

Yes I watched him. I have given my opinion.
There are no terms and conditions on my opinion.
It is my opinion, like it or not.
No I didn't source my material, it's firmly implanted in my memories.

Fair enough. Suffice to say most around here don't agree with you. If you're going on your memories I would at a guess say you saw him once a year, if that, and never really paid much attention to his game.

Awards do not make a great player.
Scottie West, where are his awards?
Adam Goodes 2 Brownlows, is he really that good?
Gary Ablett Junior should have a Brownlow already and doesn't.
Awards, as well as stats do not necessarily indicate a great player.
No Williams is not as good as the 3 mentioned.

A player could not accrue the full range the awards Diesel did over his career unless they were a great player. Nor could you rack up some of the utterly amazing stats he did in some of his games. You've given not a single example that proves otherwise.

Williams not as good as those three... well I guess I should stop here. Everyone is entitled to their opinions; and in my opinion you have absolutely no idea.

 

[MinerBoy]

Diesel was better than those 3. Couldn't kick as far as Buckley, lead as well as Voss or be as mercurial as Hird. Was simply a better player though. An all time great.

Got stacks of possessions when it wasn't a possession game and yet used the ball as well as anyone. Ability to put a team mate in an advantageous position, by either hand or foot, is the best I have seen.

 

[ripitup27]

Just to raise a point about Selwood playing in a good midfield, therefore his talents are overrated, normally I would agree with you.

I would agree that if Joel Corey became the number one mid at a team he would struggle. To an extent I also believe Bartel might not be as influential as what he currently is.

But Selwood is something different. On countless occasions opposition players have tried to rough him up just to take him out of the game and he bounces back better than ever.

At least twice he's just about won the game off his own boot. The Fremantle game last year where we won by a point sticks in my mind. Selwood was the only bloke who stood up and actually had a crack and he won the game for us.

Look at the Nth Melbourne game in round five 2007. Selwood had only played a couple of games and he nearly won us the game. With Bartel and Chapman, he was one of three players who actually did something.

Unlike (IMO) Bartel, Corey and a handful of others at Geelong, I have no doubt Selwood would be doing what he is now no matter who was around him.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

I obviously don't rate him as highly as you.
But then I'm not a Carlton Supporter.
Seriously, I think he was very good, just not that good.
Ablett and Daicos, now I'd be left shaking my head at their genius.
Matter of opinion I suppose.

Ablett and Williams, Daicos and Williams, and Ablett and Daicos for that matter, are different footballers who were champions of the game in their unique ways. I don't know how far you can go comparing them.
But Williams was definately alot more than a very good footballer. I am still annoyed that Geelong didn't find an extra 10 grand to keep him.

 

[ashs35]

Geelong probably had a huge impact on his development as well.