Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[Carn The Berries]

Yes, he is telling porkies.

Pesutto pulled a number out of thin air wondering aloud if that much could have been spent.

Nuffies hyping up nuffies to keep the news cycle running.

On one hand this number is "pulled out of the air" yet in the same breath you have absolutely no doubt that the $6-$7b being touted by Dan Andrews is legit?

And yet anyone who questions that (given the complete absence of information at this point in time) is a cooker?

Heaven forbid, anybody asks to see some validation of claims.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

And yet name another city that has more?

p.s. the tennis and gp are pretty major world sporting events.

Not mention the mcg is the largest professional sports stadium on the planet. It has 2-3 games every weekend for half the year. Plus arguably the biggest annual cricket match on the planet. Perhaps only the Lords test is bigger.

And weird that you talk down cricket as a world sport, after soccer it is clearly the second biggest world team sport on the planet. Name another? Basketball probably comes in third.

Agree with this...but you almost had me.

Kudos on your very clever use of the term "largest professional sports stadium in the world." There are at least half a dozen bigger stadiums in the USA but they host college football. The Narendra Modi Stadium in India has a capacity of 132,000 but how much of that is standing room? On a technicality this is the only bigger professional sports stadium. Who knows what the hell happens in the massive stadium in Pyongyang but it is unlikely to be professional sport. More likely they put on mass executions as public "entertainment."

 

[The Punter]

I mean, when you have a government not known for accurately assessing the cost of major projects, then the standard has been set. In the Victorian polity, we pull numbers out of thin air. The initial 2018 stated budget for the SRL is a very good example.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Likely closest to the truth - it was going to be a logistical nightmare and we would have been left a laughing stock.
Face facts, the guy does not have a fiscally responsible bone on his body.
Nearly every major projects runs way over time and especially budget, but he pushes on, puts the deadline back ad spends millions and billions more.
Myki was what? $500 million over budget and years late and then beset with problems, but they pushed on.
Suburban Rail Link? Don't start us, but on it goes.
Yet he wants us to think he work up Monday and decided to be 'fiscally responsible'.
Nah sorry.
The d*** needs a new 'Super Computer' as this one still gets numbers and predictions horribly wrong!

Haven't level crossing upgrades been run on schedule and on budget? Well, at least prior to covid and interest rate hikes, etc, but given Andrews is also responsible for the pandemic and the war in Ukraine, they probably don't count.

 

[geoffjennings79]

IPA Pesutto on ABC Melbourne this morning being fed Dorothy Dixers by his fangirl side-kick. Admittedly had one or two valid points, but claiming he wouldn't have committed to the Games in the first place is interesting given Vic LNP's track record under Kennett, Guy's questionable approval MO when planning minister, committing to a major project in caretaker mode knowing they would likely lose an election, etc, showing they would readily have a "hold my beer" stuff up ready to go if they ever get access to the govt benches again.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Haven't level crossing upgrades been run on schedule and on budget? Well, at least prior to covid and interest rate hikes, etc, but given Andrews is also responsible for the pandemic and the war in Ukraine, they probably don't count.

Not responsible for COVID, but no one botched it like him.

Defend him all you like, most projects don't run to budget and are generally millions and billions over ... and that's before COVID.

The guy would be hard-pressed running the meat raffle at Wycheproof pub on Friday nights.

He'd turn up with boxes of tofu or fruit and vegie boxes and produce some **** and bull story about how the butcher or the delivery bloke was to blame, or that HE didn't 'promise' meat trays.

All the while charging $5 a ticket instead of the traditional 3 for $5 to cover a botched idea or project elsewhere.

Couldn't lie straight in bed, the Creepy Assumer. And completely without scruples.

And the morals of a sewer rat.

Would it be too much to ask that he does a basic business course? Economics of Bad Debts 101.

 

[The Punter]

IPA Pesutto on ABC Melbourne this morning being fed Dorothy Dixers by his fangirl side-kick. Admittedly had one or two valid points, but claiming he wouldn't have committed to the Games in the first place is interesting given Vic LNP's track record under Kennett, Guy's questionable approval MO when planning minister, committing to a major project in caretaker mode knowing they would likely lose an election, etc, showing they would readily have a "hold my beer" stuff up ready to go if they ever get access to the govt benches again.

The commitment to the East West Link was made before caretaker started on 4 November 2014.

East West Link contract signed by Victorian government

High court rejects a last-ditch effort to delay the controversial $8bn roadway project

www.theguardian.com

The caretaker comment is an error in fact.

 

[wayniac]

No it isn't.

Definitely isn't. No airport train to Geelong or other regional centres. Every single day there are complaints about Vline service.

Compare that to say Manchester. A regular train and bus service from the airport to cities East and West. We're heading to Manchester in September. Decided to catch a bus from the airport to Leeds (same distance as Melbourne - Geelong or Ballarat). $20. The train was a slightly more expensive option but if you're heading to York or Hull, it's a great option.

Miss the good 'ol Gull bus and it's another 75-90 minute wait for the next one. Seems to happen every time for me because of airline and transit delays.

 

[geoffjennings79]

The commitment to the East West Link was made before caretaker started on 4 November 2014.

East West Link contract signed by Victorian government

High court rejects a last-ditch effort to delay the controversial $8bn roadway project

www.theguardian.com

The caretaker comment is an error in fact.

Fair enough, but they were well aware of what they were doing - and the link you've provided points out transparency and other issues that are being thrown at the current govt.

I respect your background and inside info on this forum, and while I'm a life-long student (and sometime activist myself) in Australian politics, the lack of transparency and throwing out of ideals when entering parliament across the political spectrum makes me cynical of all politicians as my default these days.

Another poster accused me of defending Andrews, which couldn't be more wrong. I'm just trying to highlight the hypocrisy on all sides, and while I appreciate you know Pesutto and I don't, I only see another shrill Guy-like reactor with little policy substance. I do largely subscribe to the philosophy of "a pox on both their houses" more than I used to, maybe my cynicism is due to advancing years, but I see little genuine policy or debate about policy substance at all levels of Aust govt.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Defend him all you like, most projects don't run to budget and are generally millions and billions over ... and that's before COVID.

Projects running over budget isn't a Daniel Andrews exclusive


It happens world over.

"on time and under budget" is just another way of saying something has been cut or descoped

 

[kalex6251]

IPA Pesutto on ABC Melbourne this morning being fed Dorothy Dixers by his fangirl side-kick. Admittedly had one or two valid points, but claiming he wouldn't have committed to the Games in the first place is interesting given Vic LNP's track record under Kennett, Guy's questionable approval MO when planning minister, committing to a major project in caretaker mode knowing they would likely lose an election, etc, showing they would readily have a "hold my beer" stuff up ready to go if they ever get access to the govt benches again.

cant listen to her at the moment ... and havent for a few years (can also add sarah ferguson to that list of weak interviews with her effort last night on 7.30*)

* NB: wrote in an earlier post that it was the CGF CEO - turns out it was the CGF vice president

 

[adogsfan5]

Dan is like my ex-boss in my late 20s-early 30s.
When you lie so compulsively, you start believing your own lies.
It's coming out.
Even my brother, who proudly declares himself 'a socialist', was conceding tonight that Dan's both a compulsive liar and deluded.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Not responsible for COVID, but no one botched it like him.

Defend him all you like, most projects don't run to budget and are generally millions and billions over ... and that's before COVID.

The guy would be hard-pressed running the meat raffle at Wycheproof pub on Friday nights.

He'd turn up with boxes of tofu or fruit and vegie boxes and produce some utensil and bull story about how the butcher or the delivery bloke was to blame, or that HE didn't 'promise' meat trays.

All the while charging $5 a ticket instead of the traditional 3 for $5 to cover a botched idea or project elsewhere.

Couldn't lie straight in bed, the Creepy Assumer. And completely without scruples.

And the morals of a sewer rat.

Would it be too much to ask that he does a basic business course? Economics of Bad Debts 101.

I'm not defending him, just pointing out projects that did run on time. As per my post replying to The Punter, there's not much integrity across the board in Australian politics, and while no consolation to anyone, this bloke is actually the least-worst option in Victoria, which shows where our current polity is at.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Not responsible for COVID, but no one botched it like him.

Defend him all you like, most projects don't run to budget and are generally millions and billions over ... and that's before COVID.

The guy would be hard-pressed running the meat raffle at Wycheproof pub on Friday nights.

He'd turn up with boxes of tofu or fruit and vegie boxes and produce some utensil and bull story about how the butcher or the delivery bloke was to blame, or that HE didn't 'promise' meat trays.

All the while charging $5 a ticket instead of the traditional 3 for $5 to cover a botched idea or project elsewhere.

Couldn't lie straight in bed, the Creepy Assumer. And completely without scruples.

And the morals of a sewer rat.

Would it be too much to ask that he does a basic business course? Economics of Bad Debts 101.

Tofu.

 

[geoffjennings79]

cant listen to her at the moment ... and havent for a few years (can also add sarah ferguson to that list of weak interviews with her effort last night on 7.30*)

* NB: wrote in an earlier post that it was the CGF CEO - turns out it was the CGF vice president

She's descended to the attempted gotcha questions in almost every interview these days, whether politician, public servant, expert guest. It's disappointing, and an insult to her audience.

 

[adogsfan5]

I am pissed that Andrews bid for it in the first place. I am pissed that there will be break costs.

I am not unhappy he has canned it. But he looks like a dick with regard to the way he handled it.

This was my expected outcome. Some can’t seem to admit to points 1, 2 and 4 though and some are also calling for his head which is ridiculous.
You’re in the warm middle ground. Would be nice to see more with your mentality.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

The State of Victoria is on the hook for a huge amount of money to not hold this “joke event”.

Coping with that shouldn’t be easy for anyone.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I agree.

But it is also true that most people have no understanding of sunk cost fallacy. Why throw good money after bad?

 

[Sttew]

Hype.

I'd imagine Victoria would have agreed under much more favourable conditions. Given nobody else wanted and nobody really wants it now.

You'd imagine!? You do a lot of imagining in this thread

If the penalty for breaking contract is not $1B, or heaven help us, more, why wouldn't Dan come out and say "the maximum we stand to lose is $X"?

And why would the CGA offer Victoria more favourable conditions when Victoria came knocking on their door in 2021 with this fantastic "fully costed" regional games offer that would reap untold benefits for the state?

 

[The Punter]

Fair enough, but they were well aware of what they were doing - and the link you've provided points out transparency and other issues that are being thrown at the current govt.

I respect your background and inside info on this forum, and while I'm a life-long student (and sometime activist myself) in Australian politics, the lack of transparency and throwing out of ideals when entering parliament across the political spectrum makes me cynical of all politicians as my default these days.

Another poster accused me of defending Andrews, which couldn't be more wrong. I'm just trying to highlight the hypocrisy on all sides, and while I appreciate you know Pesutto and I don't, I only see another shrill Guy-like reactor with little policy substance. I do largely subscribe to the philosophy of "a pox on both their houses" more than I used to, maybe my cynicism is due to advancing years, but I see little genuine policy or debate about policy substance at all levels of Aust govt.

I can confidently say, without even the slightest hint of doubt, that John Pesutto would never have acted as Planning Minister in the way Matthew Guy did. Guy was a law onto himself as Planning Minister.

 

[geoffjennings79]

You'd imagine!? You do a lot of imagining in this thread

If the penalty for breaking contract is not $1B, or heaven help us, more, why wouldn't Dan come out and say "the maximum we stand to lose is $X"?

And why would the CGA offer Victoria more favourable conditions when Victoria came knocking on their door with this fantastic "fully costed" regional games offer that would reap untold benefits for the state?

Fair questions, but aren't you by default "imagining" the break fee is greater if you disagree with HHH's imagining? Because at this stage, no one on here knows either way. And we all know if/when it is revealed, there'll be a whole new round of "I told you so" by the "winners", because this is BF, and a thread possibly even more partisan than footy threads!

 

[Wooden Robot]

I'm not defending him, just pointing out projects that did run on time. As per my post replying to The Punter, there's not much integrity across the board in Australian politics, and while no consolation to anyone, this bloke is actually the least-worst option in Victoria, which shows where our current polity is at.

I agree with your assessment until the part where it says ' this bloke is actually the least-worst option in Victoria, which shows where our current polity is at.'
He's corrupt, crook, divisive, damaging, inept and has only his own interests and his own party's interests in mind.
Like FFS, the most locked down city in the world and the poorest COVID response by far by any state in Australia and this bloke continues to wear it as a badge of honour and shoves it in our faces by awarding blokes like Sutton Victorian of the Year awards and giving plum roles to plodders like the train conductor Weimar.
It's no surprise that many of the same responsible for the bungled hotel quarantine program were running the Geelong side of the Comm games team.
Such a shallow talent pool (or reward for silence).

I have voted Liberal, Labor and mostly independent in my lifetime, but for Victoria's sake, we have to see an alternative to this destructive and pompous megalomaniac.

 

[Sttew]

Fair questions, but aren't you by default "imagining" the break fee is greater if you disagree with HHH's imagining? Because at this stage, no one on here knows either way. And we all know if/when it is revealed, there'll be a whole new round of "I told you so" by the "winners", because this is BF, and a thread possibly even more partisan than footy threads!

I have no idea what the break fee is, but if Victoria was able to negotiate a lesser fee wouldn't Dan be bragging about that instead of telling us "lets not speculate"? It's the sheer lack of transparency, and honesty that shits me. As each day goes by we learn more, e.g., a report in 2019 told Dan regional games would NEVER be viable.

This garbage that CGA begged Victoria to host the games has been exposed as a lie.

 

[Wooden Robot]

I can confidently say, without even the slightest hint of doubt, that John Pesutto would never have acted as Planning Minister in the way Matthew Guy did. Guy was a law onto himself as Planning Minister.

So Guy was to planning what Andrews was to everything!
I can live with that.
As they say, the standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
It's common knowledge in transport dept. bureaucracy, where my partner works, that business cases - when asked for - don't stack up, but the green light is given to projects. And that's only when they bother with a case or feasibility study.
What Dan wants, Dan gets.

 

[Wooden Robot]

I agree.

But it is also true that most people have no understanding of sunk cost fallacy. Why throw good money after bad?

Why throw good money after bad?
Ask the bloke who keeps doing it, Dan.
Why did he throw $15 million at a netball team?
Coincidently, the Visit Victoria/Victorian Government Diamonds won't be getting a home tournament.
But f*** the Creepy Assumer thought he looked good being the saviour again!

 

[sideswipe]

I agree.

But it is also true that most people have no understanding of sunk cost fallacy. Why throw good money after bad?

Not sure anyone on here or elsewhere is suggesting cancelling was not a good idea in the face of a costs blowout. It's how it got to that point that is the problem.

Applauding the decision to cancel is like applauding an arsonist for taking a hose to a house fire after he lit the match.