Universal Love Princes Park Update

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I'm reasonably certain that's the AFL's (and some within Carlton desperate for a scapegoat) revisionist take on things. Personally I find the scenario presented by Elliot himself much more plausible as it matches my own memories of the Legends stand development and it fits in with what we've seen of the AFL's modus operandi of the time.

Watch from around the 8:40 mark:


The fact we were bottom at the time to go with the AFL's natural dislike for the Carlton ground were the major factors for Carlton being lured away from the ground, but the seeds were planted years before it occurred. Plus a president who never had our best interests at heart.
My summary of events:
-Things were going well in 1995 when the blues had won their 16th premiership and as Princes Park became the first ground to sign a commercial sponsorship deal with "Optus" 2 years earlier, the blues wanted to complete the last stages of development so Optus Oval would have complete seating with a modern looking grandstand to bring the capacity to 35K. As fellow big 4 clubs such as Collingwood and Essendon decided to move permanently to the MCG in years to come for better financial returns and smaller clubs couldn't make any profit out of their all broken down grounds, they elected to either move to the MCG, Waverly or be forced to be a tenate at Optus.

-Carlton wern't like other clubs though as they knew Waverly was coming to an end and they genuanily believed that Optus Oval would become the AFL's number 2 venue. That is why the money was to be spent on building the legends stand. It is easy to say that was a massive mistake today, but at the time it seemed the best option in terms of footy being played at Optus Oval. This was only set to be part of the plan as long term the blues wanted Optus Oval to have a capacity of 45K by either demolishing or upgrading the Gardiner Stand.

-Yet as you saw in that interview, the AFL stabbed us in the back. Once we had already started spending the money on the stand, the AFL said they would build the new stadium in Docklands. The Legends Stand was poorly designed too which made all the money spend seem like a waste as Optus Oval was no longer the suburban ground loved decades earlier, it was now a white elephant boutique stadium. Other clubs couldn't stand playing there and by 2000 all former tenates were gone and Carlton was left on it's own. The profits hoping to be made out of the ground were quickly lost by us on our own.

-From about then it was when the AFL wanted to kick Carlton out of Optus Oval, but they knew they couldn't as Carlton was going strong near the top of the ladder, getting regular 25K+ crowds to games and had a lease to play games there until 2004 which Carlton was sure to renew it's deal. Plus the fact that there was no way Carlton would ever leave the ground as Elliott was president. That's why the 2002 season came as an early Christmas present for the AFL.

-In 2002 Carlton won the wooden spoon for the first time in the clubs history and the blues fans who were used to success quickly turned on Elliott and wanted him out, it was at the time the salary cap debacle was announced by the AFL to punish Carlton just when they needed the picks most to rebuild their list. In a dramatic turn of events Carlton went from being the most successful to the leased. They were financially broke, struggling to survive and Collo finally got his chance to be president and move Carlton to 'Collo Dome' as even though they were his intentions all along, he could finally back it up with evidence that the move away was the best thing for the club with it being the best option to make Carlton a powerhouse again. What he also did was rip away over 100 years of history, tradition and an advantage that made Carlton the greatest AFL club.

-With crowds dropping too, the losses started to build up. If only, Optus Oval had been well maintained up to being the AFL's number 2 venue, we would be making profits from other clubs, getting good broadcast deals with the ground and no matter the situation on field, Collins would of never been able to move Carlton away from it's beloved ground.

-The last game was played in 2005 and as we have all seen the move to Etihad has been a complete disaster with the blues only winning 37% of it's games at the venue, pulling low crowds that would of had better atmosphere at Optus/Visy/Ikon Park and making the club financially stable. As for turning the club into a power house, the club is still in the red with money and are rebuilding from the bottom of the ladder as the club hasn't made it past the 2nd week of the finals since the move and had 3 more wooden spoons in the cabinate. The fall of the Heatley and Harris stands in 2008 all but assured footy wouldn't be played again at Princes Park. Yet this year Carlton women's team played with a lot of fight and spirit to remain undefeated at Carlton's spiritual home this year pulling a sell out crowd to the opening game against Collingwood. The reward has been an upgrade from the AFL on the ground.

-Even though Carlton doesn't have the money to spend on making Princes Park into an AFL venue in the short term, long term it would be a good strategy if you learn from previous years of mistakes. A replacement of wooden seats, an further upgrade at the Royal Parade End (with seating) and an increased capacity is what it would take for Carlton to play games there in the future. Going on what I saw in the Doco, there are many Carlton fans who still think the same....
 
Some interesting pic's in this thread earlier too.....

CAM01279_zpsd860cc70.jpg

CAM01278_zps5140ef80.jpg
 

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Hi, this is my 500th post on BigFooty, its also exactly 1 year today I joined BigFooty and made my first post which was on this thread so I'm going to try and make this post a beauty;)

This site has been brilliant in so many ways in being able to talk about footy, openly share our opinions and develop friendships in others, it is without a doubt the best footy chat site in Australia.

With Princes Park I have made some strong comment the venue and its history in the past for the Carlton Football Club, with the help of peer pressure it would be pretty easy to back off completely, accept the facts and go back to hiding away and not talking about it again, but that wouldn't achieve much and our country was build on free speech and being entitled to opinions and since I bumped up this thread 1 year ago today it has grown just over 30 pages from what it was so there are clearly others passionate about the ground.

Suburban footy is well and truly felt still right around Australia, that advantage of having a home ground while playing as the 'home' team has become more reconsidered as of late, Geelong are wanting to play every single game at their fortress, the Adelaide Oval is one of the most intimidating grounds in Australia and just recently Peter Gorden has said he wants to upgrade the Whitten Oval to play games back there (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/721d3489c9176f55dc8d4b884977d56a) as they have found the new financial benefits of playing at the new Ballarat gold mine and have been smicken with wanting to actually be a 'home' team once again. Trigg's main talking point is that its moot point if the AFL don't have intentions of fixture games at the venue again, well the AFL doesn't have any intentions of the Dogs playing at the Whitten Oval, but it appears them and Geelong want to start running their own show once again.

Sure it will take lots of work to get done with all the old wood and mess inside the grandstands, but surely the 25K capacity gives us a head start on the Whitten Oval?? In terms of the cost, well, you can't eat an elephant in one bite, but if you keep chipping away over time no matter how long it takes you'll eventually get there, its a bit like that with upgrading Princes Park.
 
Hi, this is my 500th post on BigFooty, its also exactly 1 year today I joined BigFooty and made my first post which was on this thread so I'm going to try and make this post a beauty;)

This site has been brilliant in so many ways in being able to talk about footy, openly share our opinions and develop friendships in others, it is without a doubt the best footy chat site in Australia.

With Princes Park I have made some strong comment the venue and its history in the past for the Carlton Football Club, with the help of peer pressure it would be pretty easy to back off completely, accept the facts and go back to hiding away and not talking about it again, but that wouldn't achieve much and our country was build on free speech and being entitled to opinions and since I bumped up this thread 1 year ago today it has grown just over 30 pages from what it was so there are clearly others passionate about the ground.

Suburban footy is well and truly felt still right around Australia, that advantage of having a home ground while playing as the 'home' team has become more reconsidered as of late, Geelong are wanting to play every single game at their fortress, the Adelaide Oval is one of the most intimidating grounds in Australia and just recently Peter Gorden has said he wants to upgrade the Whitten Oval to play games back there (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/721d3489c9176f55dc8d4b884977d56a) as they have found the new financial benefits of playing at the new Ballarat gold mine and have been smicken with wanting to actually be a 'home' team once again. Trigg's main talking point is that its moot point if the AFL don't have intentions of fixture games at the venue again, well the AFL doesn't have any intentions of the Dogs playing at the Whitten Oval, but it appears them and Geelong want to start running their own show once again.

Sure it will take lots of work to get done with all the old wood and mess inside the grandstands, but surely the 25K capacity gives us a head start on the Whitten Oval?? In terms of the cost, well, you can't eat an elephant in one bite, but if you keep chipping away over time no matter how long it takes you'll eventually get there, its a bit like that with upgrading Princes Park.


Well, as long as we Blues supporters never give up on the dream... you never know.
 
The fact we were bottom at the time to go with the AFL's natural dislike for the Carlton ground were the major factors for Carlton being lured away from the ground, but the seeds were planted years before it occurred. Plus a president who never had our best interests at heart.
My summary of events:
-Things were going well in 1995 when the blues had won their 16th premiership and as Princes Park became the first ground to sign a commercial sponsorship deal with "Optus" 2 years earlier, the blues wanted to complete the last stages of development so Optus Oval would have complete seating with a modern looking grandstand to bring the capacity to 35K. As fellow big 4 clubs such as Collingwood and Essendon decided to move permanently to the MCG in years to come for better financial returns and smaller clubs couldn't make any profit out of their all broken down grounds, they elected to either move to the MCG, Waverly or be forced to be a tenate at Optus.

-Carlton wern't like other clubs though as they knew Waverly was coming to an end and they genuanily believed that Optus Oval would become the AFL's number 2 venue. That is why the money was to be spent on building the legends stand. It is easy to say that was a massive mistake today, but at the time it seemed the best option in terms of footy being played at Optus Oval. This was only set to be part of the plan as long term the blues wanted Optus Oval to have a capacity of 45K by either demolishing or upgrading the Gardiner Stand.

-Yet as you saw in that interview, the AFL stabbed us in the back. Once we had already started spending the money on the stand, the AFL said they would build the new stadium in Docklands. The Legends Stand was poorly designed too which made all the money spend seem like a waste as Optus Oval was no longer the suburban ground loved decades earlier, it was now a white elephant boutique stadium. Other clubs couldn't stand playing there and by 2000 all former tenates were gone and Carlton was left on it's own. The profits hoping to be made out of the ground were quickly lost by us on our own.

-From about then it was when the AFL wanted to kick Carlton out of Optus Oval, but they knew they couldn't as Carlton was going strong near the top of the ladder, getting regular 25K+ crowds to games and had a lease to play games there until 2004 which Carlton was sure to renew it's deal. Plus the fact that there was no way Carlton would ever leave the ground as Elliott was president. That's why the 2002 season came as an early Christmas present for the AFL.

-In 2002 Carlton won the wooden spoon for the first time in the clubs history and the blues fans who were used to success quickly turned on Elliott and wanted him out, it was at the time the salary cap debacle was announced by the AFL to punish Carlton just when they needed the picks most to rebuild their list. In a dramatic turn of events Carlton went from being the most successful to the leased. They were financially broke, struggling to survive and Collo finally got his chance to be president and move Carlton to 'Collo Dome' as even though they were his intentions all along, he could finally back it up with evidence that the move away was the best thing for the club with it being the best option to make Carlton a powerhouse again. What he also did was rip away over 100 years of history, tradition and an advantage that made Carlton the greatest AFL club.

-With crowds dropping too, the losses started to build up. If only, Optus Oval had been well maintained up to being the AFL's number 2 venue, we would be making profits from other clubs, getting good broadcast deals with the ground and no matter the situation on field, Collins would of never been able to move Carlton away from it's beloved ground.

-The last game was played in 2005 and as we have all seen the move to Etihad has been a complete disaster with the blues only winning 37% of it's games at the venue, pulling low crowds that would of had better atmosphere at Optus/Visy/Ikon Park and making the club financially stable. As for turning the club into a power house, the club is still in the red with money and are rebuilding from the bottom of the ladder as the club hasn't made it past the 2nd week of the finals since the move and had 3 more wooden spoons in the cabinate. The fall of the Heatley and Harris stands in 2008 all but assured footy wouldn't be played again at Princes Park. Yet this year Carlton women's team played with a lot of fight and spirit to remain undefeated at Carlton's spiritual home this year pulling a sell out crowd to the opening game against Collingwood. The reward has been an upgrade from the AFL on the ground.

-Even though Carlton doesn't have the money to spend on making Princes Park into an AFL venue in the short term, long term it would be a good strategy if you learn from previous years of mistakes. A replacement of wooden seats, an further upgrade at the Royal Parade End (with seating) and an increased capacity is what it would take for Carlton to play games there in the future. Going on what I saw in the Doco, there are many Carlton fans who still think the same....

What is forgotten is the AFL did offer Carlton huge money to be the main Docklands tenant club before Essendon accepted !!
 

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the facelift is underway, the entire playing arena is currently being dug up and levelled. will be good to go by pre season


I recall that punt Rd was on a ridiculous gradient. They have improved since they fixed it too damn it.
 
Whats also left out of that story is that we were in big financial trouble and Docklands gave us a 2 million upfront payment to go.

In 1999 I believe we were offered $10m to be the main Docklands tenant , basically would have paid out PP ground debt. Big Jack knocked it back!!

Fast forward 6 years & the Blues in big trouble accept the up front $2m which covers trading losses but leaves the ground debt with no games !! Thanks Collo

Not sure which decision was worse ??
 
In 1999 I believe we were offered $10m to be the main Docklands tenant , basically would have paid out PP ground debt. Big Jack knocked it back!!

Fast forward 6 years & the Blues in big trouble accept the up front $2m which covers trading losses but leaves the ground debt with no games !! Thanks Collo

Not sure which decision was worse ??

A little from column A, a little from column B. Arrogance and incompetence, as bad a combination as there is.
 

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