Oppo Camp Jaidyn Stephenson (Traded to Nth Melb. 2020)

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sr36

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You didn’t see some of the goals Daicos kicked under pressure??? I saw Stephenson miss many easy set shot goals. He kicks one torpedo goal and all of a sudden he can do miraculous things. Take a look at the Daicos goals in traffic ser Land tell me again how many more amazing things Stephenson can do.
They can both snap a goal in traffic off a step.

When comparing their 2020s, Daicos by a mile, but you've got to remember that he flew under the radar, popped up from nowhere and hadn't had any defensive focus put into him. The same can't be said for Stepho. And you've also got to remember that he was probably playiing the easiest position in the AFL - wing for a team that keeps their width and thus uncontested possessions get racked up. Stephenson was probably playing the hardest position in the AFL - forward 50 for a team that moved it slowly.

They both need to improve significantly in a contest if we're seriously talking AA potential. Daicos is a keeper, but I wouldn't be talking Pendles. To me his ceiling is a lesser Sidey, as I don't think he does anything better than Sidey and I can't see him developing the ability to run like him. No idea what Stephenson's ceiling is, because blokes like him don't come along very often, but he's got some electric ability. His combination of leg speed, speed of mind, sticky fingers and audacity is bloody rare.
 

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Billys Back

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They can both snap a goal in traffic off a step.

When comparing their 2020s, Daicos by a mile, but you've got to remember that he flew under the radar, popped up from nowhere and hadn't had any defensive focus put into him. The same can't be said for Stepho. And you've also got to remember that he was probably playiing the easiest position in the AFL - wing for a team that keeps their width and thus uncontested possessions get racked up. Stephenson was probably playing the hardest position in the AFL - forward 50 for a team that moved it slowly.

They both need to improve significantly in a contest if we're seriously talking AA potential. Daicos is a keeper, but I wouldn't be talking Pendles. To me his ceiling is a lesser Sidey, as I don't think he does anything better than Sidey and I can't see him developing the ability to run like him. No idea what Stephenson's ceiling is, because blokes like him don't come along very often, but he's got some electric ability. His combination of leg speed, speed of mind, sticky fingers and audacity is bloody rare.
First of all, Stephenson had no attention on him in his best year Yr1. We had every forward (except Cox) kick about 40 goals that year or in Mihocek’s case averaging 2 goals a game.
Stephenson received attention in 2020 and was a major failure.
Daicos, you say plays an easy position, but have you seen him get his own ball??? Something Stephenson doesn’t know how to do. It’s evident Stephenson relies heavily on our players placing the ball perfectly for him. Otherwise he is lost.

I suggest you have a closer look at Daicos’ 2020 highlights if you think he can only ‘snap a goal’. His work under pressure in traffic to keep the ball alive (second efforts) and kick goals from the boundary etc is not of someone without talent. His foot skills on both sides enables him to put the Pies in a better position. His tackling and weaving through congested areas I have yet to see from Stephenson who essentially plays out back. Stephenson takes a ‘speccy’ because he is in prime position away from bodies and so has a free run at it.
I don’t see Daicos fumble. He is clean. Stephenson always fumbles.
As Matt Lloyd said, clubs have put the work into Stephenson and he has struggled. Basically he has been found out like his type generally are. He really hasn’t got a lot to his game and is limited (oh hang on he kicked a torpedo goal). Plenary of rising stars have fallen away once work has been out on them. This is just another example.
 
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TheGreatGrundy

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Stevo is a one trick pony forward.
Daicos is a multi faceted mid.

No comparison
I don't get how you can ignore 38 goals, a rising star and playing every game in his first season. We lauded him as a fantastic pickup, a once in 10 years type player, and now we are glad he is gone because he is a 'one trick pony'. You will be made to eat your words, of that I have absolutely no doubt. Let's hope you don't have to consume them the day we play the Kangaroos. You won't have to wait long to make a meal of them. Stepho is an established star with one poor year. He won't take long to return to his best as a footballer.
 

Billys Back

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Give me a player that is improving every year than a player who is falling away each year.

You will still be talking about his 1st year in 5 years when he can’t get a game and lay the blame on the club.
 

sr36

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First of all, Stephenson had no attention on him in his best year Yr1. We had every forward (except Cox) kick about 40 goals that year or in Mihocek’s case averaging 2 goals a game.
Stephenson received attention in 2020 and was a major failure.
Daicos, you say plays an easy position, but have you seen him get his own ball??? Someone thing Stephenson doesn’t know how to do. It’s evident Stephenson relies heavily on our players placing the ball perfectly for him. Otherwise he is lost.

I suggest you have a closer look at Daicos’ 2020 highlights if you think he can only ‘snap a goal’. His work under pressure in traffic to keep the ball alive and kick goals from the boundary etc is not of someone without talent. His foot skills on both sides enables him to put the Pies in a better position. His tackling and weaving through congested areas I have yet to see from Stephenson who essentially plays out back. Stephenson takes a ‘speccy’ because he is in prime position away from bodies and so has a free run at it.
I do t see Daicos fumble. He is clean. Stephenson always fumbles.
As Matt Lloyd said, clubs have put the work into Stephenson and he has struggled. Basically he has been found out like his type generally are. He really hasn’t got a lot to his game and is limited (oh hang on he kicked a torpedo goal). Plenary of rising stars have fallen away once work has been out on them. This is just another example.
Stephenson was better in the first half of 2019 than he was when off the radar in 2018.

We all know he's got some pretty awesome potential. He may not achieve it. But middle of the road talents don't burst onto the scene and excel when only weighing 25 kgs.
 

Billys Back

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I don't get how you can ignore 38 goals, a rising star and playing every game in his first season. We lauded him as a fantastic pickup, a once in 10 years type player, and now we are glad he is gone because he is a 'one trick pony'. You will be made to eat your words, of that I have absolutely no doubt. Let's hope you don't have to consume them the day we play the Kangaroos. You won't have to wait long to make a meal of them. Stepho is an established star with one poor year. He won't take long to return to his best as a footballer.
Josh Thomas kicked 38 goals
WHE kicked 42 goals
JDG kicked 48 goals
Mihocek kicked 29 goal (16 games)

Either the movement of the ball into the forward line in 2018 made these guys all have a standout goal kicking year, or our forward line setup was excellent. Can’t think of many teams in history where you had practically every forward kick 40 goals +. Was it a ‘one-off’? Was it worked out from opposition clubs? Why can’t those same guys kick even half that amount of goals?
 

TheGreatGrundy

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Josh Thomas kicked 38 goals
WHE kicked 42 goals
JDG kicked 48 goals
Mihocek kicked 29 goal (16 games)

Either the movement of the ball into the forward line in 2018 made these guys all have a standout goal kicking year, or our forward line setup was excellent. Can’t think of many teams in history where you had practically every forward kick 40 goals +. Was it a ‘one-off’? Was it worked out from opposition clubs? Why can’t those same guys kick even half that amount of goals?
Fair point but Stephenson was the only first year player among them and also played well in 2019 before being suspended. In any case, we won't have to wait long before evidence of his talent or lack of such is on public display.
 

Timmy from Thomastown

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jmac70

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I don't get how you can ignore 38 goals, a rising star and playing every game in his first season. We lauded him as a fantastic pickup, a once in 10 years type player, and now we are glad he is gone because he is a 'one trick pony'. You will be made to eat your words, of that I have absolutely no doubt. Let's hope you don't have to consume them the day we play the Kangaroos. You won't have to wait long to make a meal of them. Stepho is an established star with one poor year. He won't take long to return to his best as a footballer.
Stephenson had an excellent first year, and I certainly would not have expected to trade him. Last year he was not the same player. His confidence was way down. He may rediscover that at North, he may not. I also think there is more to the trade than his footy abilities.
 

Maggie5

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TheGreatGrundy

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Stephenson had an excellent first year, and I certainly would not have expected to trade him. Last year he was not the same player. His confidence was way down. He may rediscover that at North, he may not. I also think there is more to the trade than his footy abilities.
You know he can play. It's obvious that last year was not a fair reflection of his abilities. Maybe we just can't handle the non squeaky clean-living types under Buckley. We need to win premierships and sometimes you have to learn how to turn stars with wayward streaks around rather than discard them in a fire sale.
 

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Billys Back

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Fair point but Stephenson was the only first year player among them and also played well in 2019 before being suspended. In any case, we won't have to wait long before evidence of his talent or lack of such is on public display.
Don’t get me wrong, he was great. But I don’t believe he is a ‘generational’ player. We’ve seen many players in AFL who start with a bang but don’t improve. Attitude is everything and really separates players.
I also think he is the type of player that doesn’t have as much versatility at AFL level, so it becomes even more difficult to overcome the opposition once they focus on your weaknesses and how best to limit your effectiveness.
I don’t think North had anything to lose, and he will probably be a reasonably good contributor to that team. No super star IMO, but a handy player who will go in and out of games.

I think it’s interesting that the Pies may have targeted a high pressure player like McCreery for the forward line.
 

Billys Back

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Stephenson had an excellent first year, and I certainly would not have expected to trade him. Last year he was not the same player. His confidence was way down. He may rediscover that at North, he may not. I also think there is more to the trade than his footy abilities.
Yeah from my understanding if your teammates don’t want you there, it’s difficult for the club to keep you.
As Stepehenson said, during the year Buckley basically told him he needs to speak more and contribute. Either he didn’t understand he was being told to improve his relationship with his teammates, or he didn’t want the full story out there in the public.
 

jmac70

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You know he can play. It's obvious that last year was not a fair reflection of his abilities. Maybe we just can't handle the non squeaky clean-living types under Buckley. We need to win premierships and sometimes you have to learn how to turn stars with wayward streaks around rather than discard them in a fire sale.
Without knowing the details, it’s hard to say. If he was affecting the team in a negative way, you can understand the desire to trade him.
The trade itself of course was appalling in terms of value. Closely followed by Treloar and Beams.
 

Apex36

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Fair enough, but let's not deny that it was Grundy & Moore's contracts that set this off. It was terrible list administration by Collingwood. I hope some of the kids from this year pay off and there's some silver lining for the fans.
Most clubs have a couple of guns that are pushing up to the seven figure mark. Neither of Grundy or Moore are getting a million dollars, so it’s unfair to shove the blame on them when they’re getting paid what they’re actually worth. It’s the second tier guys who are on bloated salaries where the problem lies. Guys like Stephenson, Phillips, Hoskin-Elliott etc shouldnt be on more than $400k but were reportedly on $500-600k. It was incredibly poor list management, but frankly, our top tier players weren’t, and aren’t being paid over the odds.
 

Billys Back

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Most clubs have a couple of guns that are pushing up to the seven figure mark. Neither of Grundy or Moore are getting a million dollars, so it’s unfair to shove the blame on them when they’re getting paid what they’re actually worth. It’s the second tier guys who are on bloated salaries where the problem lies. Guys like Stephenson, Phillips, Hoskin-Elliott etc shouldnt be on more than $400k but were reportedly on $500-600k. It was incredibly poor list management, but frankly, our top tier players weren’t, and aren’t being paid over the odds.
Totally agree with this. I’m still in shock that Phillips was on $600k pa.
There are so many more players on our list that are ahead of him.
 

Snake_Baker

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Most clubs have a couple of guns that are pushing up to the seven figure mark. Neither of Grundy or Moore are getting a million dollars, so it’s unfair to shove the blame on them when they’re getting paid what they’re actually worth. It’s the second tier guys who are on bloated salaries where the problem lies. Guys like Stephenson, Phillips, Hoskin-Elliott etc shouldnt be on more than $400k but were reportedly on $500-600k. It was incredibly poor list management, but frankly, our top tier players weren’t, and aren’t being paid over the odds.

I'm not claiming any significant overpay issues at the pies mate.

It's just that Grundy & Moore went BANG in a big way, and the market price of their contracts elevated and caught out Collingwood's list management.

It's just one of those things that happens with strong lists, but it's usually not so public.
 

Timmy from Thomastown

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I'm not claiming any significant overpay issues at the pies mate.

It's just that Grundy & Moore went BANG in a big way, and the market price of their contracts elevated and caught out Collingwood's list management.

It's just one of those things that happens with strong lists, but it's usually not so public.
Grundy and Moore werent the problem. Or DeGoey or Daicos. Paying your star and up and coming star players what they are worth is something every club does and has to face up to.

The problem was we were overpaying some players who had a great year in 2018 and have been up and down (mostly down) for various reasons ever since... Phillips Langdon Cox Treloar Stephenson etc. Add the disastrous Beams recruitement, forcing some backloading of contracts (especially Treloar). The final straw was of course the Beams payout.

Result... Three good players given away for nothing and some salaries subsidised...and no senior players traded in.
 

MagicGnome97

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And missing in the second half due to a betting incident. Forgiveable as a standalone incident but it turns out it wasnt the only behavioural issue that he presented the club with.

On average over the whole of 2019 and 2020 it was indifferent to sh*t.
please elaborate on his behavioural issues mate, theres no information about these rumoured issues in the public domain.
 

BIGNEDKELLY

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We might be talking about talent differently. To me Stepho can do things that Daicos can't. He can take a specky. He can torp a 60 metre goal. He can create seperation in the blink of an eye.

Agree that Daicos has more poise and is currently better, but if Stepho reaches his potential, that won't last.
Daicos can beat someone in a one on one contest. When was the last time Stepho did?
 

sr36

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Daicos can beat someone in a one on one contest. When was the last time Stepho did?
Can he? I can't remember too many contest wins for either of them. I reckon it's a big weakness for both of them. They average a similar percentage of contested ball wins. And more of Jaidyns uncontested possessions involve a contest - a foot race.
 

Timmy from Thomastown

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please elaborate on his behavioural issues mate, theres no information about these rumoured issues in the public domain.
Oh so you do admit there are rumours and stories then.

Its your prerogative to believe none of them are true and hes the son of God.

Or you could apply some logic and consider some of his behaviour may be the reason for his departure.
 
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pablo disco bar

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AA players aren’t frightened to get hurt. AA don’t have seasons where they can’t even average 10 disposals a game. Did you watch him play in 2020??? He was terrible. He fumbled, he was brushed away like a mosquito, he was afraid to put his body in.
If we kept him another year not only would we have had many disgruntled players, but probably would have been lucky to get a 3rd round pick in 2021 for him.

AA talent is in hot demand. It’s been said many times already, that even if he was t AA potential, he would at least have had half a dozen clubs after him. It’s a sad reality for many of his cheerleaders here that the worst club in the game were the only ones that showed interest and even then it cost them a 2nd round pick. Yeah AA potential alright. A pity no club believes it and I’m sure they are in a far better position to make the judgement.

I bet if Daicos had a look around today he would have multiple clubs after
You didn’t see some of the goals Daicos kicked under pressure??? I saw Stephenson miss many easy set shot goals. He kicks one torpedo goal and all of a sudden he can do miraculous things. Take a look at the Daicos goals in traffic and tell me again how many more amazing things Stephenson can do.

You can’t learn poise and you can’t buy courage. Pendles can’t take a speccy but he has poise. I wonder what’s more important......?
If he was still at Collingwood you would defend and love him
 

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