Opinion Jeff Kennett News, Media etc.

[The Jet From Poowong]

We just see the story so differently it's not really worth debating.
So just finish me off with....
Why would the AFL want to purposely target our club? When did they hatch the plan to do us in, and how have they managed to maintain a coterie of willing villains over these many years to promote this sordid vision with constant turnover and such assorted personnel. Do they take a special oath as they enter their jobs?
How is it, with all the Hawthorn people we've seeded the AFL organization with, that they have so despised us (I assume we ruined they're lives while they were with us???) - so very deeply as to attempt over several decades to do whatever they can to bring us ruin?
Especially with our growing membership that brings viewers and dollars to the greater competition? I mean, to kill the cow that has given them sooooo much seems extraordinary? Surely they would want to keep us fattened so as to keep their tills overflowing?
Why just us? What was our crime that we are now paying for?

I look forward to hearing the rationale that must underpin these conspiracy theories, for they populate many minds here on the forum.

I think you are now well and truly overstating what is being said. No one is saying they want to kill us or that there is a plan to remove or eliminate.

What I (and a growing number) believe is that AFL HQ provide no favours and this is to weaken or disadvantage so as to be dictated to. You have a different view, that's fine. But expressing the extreme views I have highlighted in you lats post is incorrect. I outlined a number of things that are heavily slanted against us. You accept that as the norm but it shouldn't be that way.

It is great that the Club can dictate its own future. It doesn't need the AFL making life any more difficult.

 

[wahawk]

Not sure if you actually lived through those periods. I did.
We were a small club. Seriously, a small club with small membership and a horrible history in the competition until 57' when we made the finals FOR THE FIRST TIME.
After Kennedy took the reigns we built a culture that led to success on the field, but never translated to membership support. Nothing to do with where we played, and everything to do with a lack of history of winning which translated to small supporter base (I was one of two Hawk supporters I knew growing up, through multiple schools) and the new kids latching on in the early to mid 70's were yet to have the financial means or required gumption to demand paid up dues to support the team.

Im sure you’ve told me before that you are approx 49 / 50 / 51 yrs of age.
Is this correct ?

If so, how is it that you can question what Hawkk knows of our history (you questioned if they’d lived through it) yet you can post our history & claim to have lived through it, even though you mention the 1950’s while being born in the very late ‘60’s ?

 

[medusala]

It worked out great.
Aside from the tinfoil hats on here that want to whine about the fixture and thems that's out to get us, weve been supported in making all the decisions that got us here.
Supporters need to get a grip.

AFL shafted us over merger
Shafted us over Waverley
Shafted us re Docklands fixtures
Tried to shaft us re Tas deal
Shafting us re Sunday games
Gives non entities like Melbourne marquee games ahead of us

You call that support? Hawthorn was stuffed. The club became great again ONLY because of its supporters and DESPITE the AFL.

They want to control who plays in Tassie, they want us out so they can work on pushing North down there as the Tassie team, they don't want a north/south split.

If they can't get North to go there they might form a team or relocate Gold Coast etc, but we are in opposition with headquarters on Tassie.

A relocated team would never work. Everyone in Tas (well almost) supports an AFL team. They wouldnt give up that team for a relocated team. It would have to be a Tasmanian team. Then it would get mass support (and plenty of support in Melbourne as well). I think it will definitely happen and sooner rather than later. North could find themselves in a very vulnerable position if that comes about.

 

[flinchfree]

The AFL want us out of Tassie.

This is not a secret. They have been quite public about the fact that they want one team in Tassie and it isn't us. They gave North the AFLW license based on them playing games split between Vic and Tassie.

They want to control who plays in Tassie, they want us out so they can work on pushing North down there as the Tassie team, they don't want a north/south split.

If they can't get North to go there they might form a team or relocate Gold Coast etc, but we are in opposition with headquarters on Tassie.

That has repercussions, directly and indirectly. Not getting our AFLW license was one, getting less of a hearing about our fixture requests from the AFL is another.

They are quite capable of handing us a fixture that costs us money, they did it this year, I'm sure they have or will make suggestions on how we could improve our fixture next year.

If you think they don't exert pressure on our club then you haven't been paying attention to how they do business.

Now I'm not saying we are alone in this, we aren't the only club they are trying to force to do what they want, one issue we have is that from a broadcaster and match day perspective we don't have as much drawing power as some of the other clubs.

Collingwood fight with the AFL all the time, and publicly, but they are just too big a cash cow to really punish via the fixture, we are not.

No question at all that the AFL don't want us in Tasmania. But not because they have an agenda to hurt us.
Because they have an agenda to help others.
Funny, I reckon the split on here amongst supporters is at least 80/20 wanting us out of there too, and would probably be 98/2 if we showed as a club that there was no hit financially.
But sure, lets whinge about something we a Hawkers would actually prefer.

I agree we don't get the fixture we love every year.
As you've said - others feel similarly.
I don't see the uniqueness of the complaint that makes it Hawthorn centric, in fact if we got the fixture WE always wanted EVERY OTHER CLUB would feel shafted.
They share the shafting with consideration to making the most money for the competition, and in the end through distributions ALL CLUBS.

There's nothing else. It's all tin foil stuff.

 

[flinchfree]

Im sure you’ve told me before that you are approx 49 / 50 / 51 yrs of age.
Is this correct ?

If so, how is it that you can question what Hawkk knows of our history (you questioned if they’d lived through it) yet you can post our history & claim to have lived through it, even though you mention the 1950’s while being born in the very late ‘60’s ?

I'm 50 years old.
Started supporting the club in 75'.
Was well aware of who the club was at the time and it's history that was only recent history.
If you just want to be a smart arse jerk and think I can't speak to what I saw and lived through, save it for pm's.
No one else is interested in your fixation.

 

[flinchfree]

AFL shafted us over merger
1.Shafted us over Waverley
2.Shafted us re Docklands fixtures
3.Tried to shaft us re Tas deal
4.Shafting us re Sunday games
5.Gives non entities like Melbourne marquee games ahead of us

You call that support? Hawthorn was stuffed. The club became great again ONLY because of its supporters and DESPITE the AFL.



A relocated team would never work. Everyone in Tas (well almost) supports an AFL team. They wouldnt give up that team for a relocated team. It would have to be a Tasmanian team. Then it would get mass support (and plenty of support in Melbourne as well). I think it will definitely happen and sooner rather than later. North could find themselves in a very vulnerable position if that comes about.

1. Rubbish
2. Rubbish
3. Rubbish
4. Tinfoil hat
5. You've got to be ******* joking.

Don't know what ridiculous version of paranoid history you've been living, but it's an alternate history mate.

 

[Off The Couch]

“Not to hurt us, but to help others”

You don’t think the loss of our major sponsor and the associated dollars is a hit to the club

 

[Carl Spackler]

“Not to hurt us, but to help others”

You don’t think the loss of our major sponsor and the associated dollars is a hit to the club

You're completely missing the point. He's not denying that the AFL screwed us at every turn. They did. He's saying they screwed us because they wanted to give other clubs a lift up by knocking us down. They didn't knock us down just because they don't like us. They knocked us down because they liked others better.

So stop complaining. Enjoy the shafting.

(Otherwise known as a distinction without a difference.)

 

[Gralin]

No question at all that the AFL don't want us in Tasmania. But not because they have an agenda to hurt us.
Because they have an agenda to help others.
Funny, I reckon the split on here amongst supporters is at least 80/20 wanting us out of there too, and would probably be 98/2 if we showed as a club that there was no hit financially.
But sure, lets whinge about something we a Hawkers would actually prefer.

I agree we don't get the fixture we love every year.
As you've said - others feel similarly.
I don't see the uniqueness of the complaint that makes it Hawthorn centric, in fact if we got the fixture WE always wanted EVERY OTHER CLUB would feel shafted.
They share the shafting with consideration to making the most money for the competition, and in the end through distributions ALL CLUBS.

There's nothing else. It's all tin foil stuff.

Getting us out of Tassie hurts us. We've been there for a long time, they are the major sponsor and it protects the club against losses in some games that would draw poorly.

We should we accept our club being disadvantaged because the AFL decided another club should get it instead?

 

[flinchfree]

Getting us out of Tassie hurts us. We've been there for a long time, they are the major sponsor and it protects the club against losses in some games that would draw poorly.

We should we accept our club being disadvantaged because the AFL decided another club should get it instead?

I would say this.
Tazzie has been a real positive for the club, no doubt. On field it's an awkward as * ground to visit and been an advantage on game day, and the dollars from the Government to promote the State has been brilliant.
I also think we've come close, very very close, to the end of our run there.
With all the success we've had, it's undebatable that were at saturation point in terms of support down there and that point is surprisingly low. We may be the second team for many down there and first for some, but we haven't cold cocked allegiances to St Kilda, Richmond, Carlton and Collingwood. Tassie folk are hard core footy people and develop their team connections early from family much like we do here in Vic. Crowds have stagnated, interest has stagnated, we're just 'there' for many.
There's no great appetite to make us anything other than what we are, a traveling team that hasn't offended them and is likeable enough but in NO WAY what they're craving. A team of their own.

I have it on reliable observation (Ned Ryerson) that when we fluffed our last major sponsor - remember Audi who were looking for a long time relationship in Oz? - it was no great loss, that the Hawks would comfortably replace them, nothing to see move along. Don't remember too many having the concern I was at the time about the loss of a mil a year, but hey, why not arc up now?

Who here is going to miss the Tassie trip? Davo will, and good on him, but most would be thrilled to have the games there allocated back to Melb.
The money we'll lose? I agree, it needs heads at the Club to formulate the plan to find those dollars. I have zero doubt with the way our tenure in the isle has gone the last 5-6 years and turmoil and disagreement from many pundits here and over the Tasman about it's value, that the purchase and development of Dingley is a major component of doing so.
I'd love some hotels on the site, shopping, yada yada, and reckon we can make out like bandits.

Do I think it's 'fair' that North get to have their lilly gilded on the transfer to Tassie and take up what we have built over so many years? No. But I don't believe you can have fair when dealing in any number higher than 2.
Three kids? No way you can treat them identically fair, your experiences with the first and second shape your actions with the third.
Do I think it's a ridiculously hard job to look after 18 franchises and try and make them ALL happy, grow them equally, give them the same chances of success? Yes.
So when one or more need more, and others NEED less, I'm ok with disproportionately helping the needy.

Oh, and there's this.


North have been going down there for over 70 years, doing camps etc., so they're not exactly johnny come lately's.
If they want to make it a home/part home that secures their future I reckon that's just fine, I think we'll do considerably better in the long haul home in the Eastern Suburbs of Melbourne.

 

[wahawk]

I'm 50 years old.
Started supporting the club in 75'.
Was well aware of who the club was at the time and it's history that was only recent history.
If you just want to be a smart arse jerk and think I can't speak to what I saw and lived through, save it for pm's.
No one else is interested in your fixation.

You missed the point.......or just ignored it.

& keep your personal insults to yourself

 

[flinchfree]

You missed the point.......or just ignored it.

& keep your personal insults to yourself

You really struggle to follow your own question, and my subsequent answer.

Your question "If so, how is it that you can question what Hawkk knows of our history (you questioned if they’d lived through it) yet you can post our history & claim to have lived through it, even though you mention the 1950’s while being born in the very late ‘60’s ?"
My answer:..."Was well aware of who the club was at the time and it's history that was only recent history."

Hawkk's view of us being shafted by the governing body at every turn through the loss of recruitment areas (everyone did), our move from Glenferrie (was OUR choice because Glenferrie was not developable), our move to Princes (WE negotiated it and no governing body screwed us), our move to VFL park (which was a GIFT that has not stopped giving), and our relationship with Tasmania (which was COMPLETELY supported by AFL at the time and through the majority of our tenure), belies having lived through those experiences.
Please, either of you, go away and find supporting articles and opinions about our history from the 50's -90's that state we as a club were being shafted at every turn by either the VFL or AFL.
Hawkk made the claim, and you've paraded yourself as some sort of supporter of that view, so the onus is on YOU to support your claim.
It reads as complete rubbish in my estimation.

Do us both a favor, put me on ignore. You've done nothing but follow me around this site for years taking snide little shots wherever you can. You're an ass, and everyone can see it. I have no problem discussing most topics with near anyone else on here, except you. Think perhaps that says more about you, than me.

 

[wahawk]

You really struggle to follow your own question, and my subsequent answer.

Your question "If so, how is it that you can question what Hawkk knows of our history (you questioned if they’d lived through it) yet you can post our history & claim to have lived through it, even though you mention the 1950’s while being born in the very late ‘60’s ?"
My answer:..."Was well aware of who the club was at the time and it's history that was only recent history."

Hawkk's view of us being shafted by the governing body at every turn through the loss of recruitment areas (everyone did), our move from Glenferrie (was OUR choice because Glenferrie was not developable), our move to Princes (WE negotiated it and no governing body screwed us), our move to VFL park (which was a GIFT that has not stopped giving), and our relationship with Tasmania (which was COMPLETELY supported by AFL at the time and through the majority of our tenure), belies having lived through those experiences.
Please, either of you, go away and find supporting articles and opinions about our history from the 50's -90's that state we as a club were being shafted at every turn by either the VFL or AFL.
Hawkk made the claim, and you've paraded yourself as some sort of supporter of that view, so the onus is on YOU to support your claim.
It reads as complete rubbish in my estimation.

Do us both a favor, put me on ignore. You've done nothing but follow me around this site for years taking snide little shots wherever you can. You're an ass, and everyone can see it. I have no problem discussing most topics with near anyone else on here, except you. Think perhaps that says more about you, than me.

Don’t flatter yourself

 

[Pessimistic]

Jeff May have backed the wrong horse in terms of the federal alp $20m

Not criticising just commenting

 

[The BIG X]

Jeff may call on the Libs for $40.mil

 

[Pessimistic]

Jeff may call on the Libs for $40.mil

You’d hope so

 

[Topiary]

Don’t hold your breath. Jeff has nothing to argue for. He has already done so. The Dingley project just became problematic. It might be rooted in its current form. The Conservatives don’t need to support the ALP commitment. And from my info. WONT.

 

[Lawsy]

On the Sunday graveyard shift topic, over in Adelaide atm, Port has 1 and Adelaide has 1 for the whole season. As there are only 22 for the season, likely less with bye rounds not requiring a twilight game, it seems extraordinary we have 7 in the first 9 weeks.

Maybe their isn't an agenda or maybe the Muppets did the fixture.

 

[Pessimistic]

Were the afl to engineer the end of out tassie tenure, be in no doubt they would still schedule us there as often as possible

 

[medusala]

1. Rubbish
2. Rubbish
3. Rubbish
4. Tinfoil hat
5. You've got to be ******* joking.

Don't know what ridiculous version of paranoid history you've been living, but it's an alternate history mate.

Hardly

1. Hawks got a fraction of the cash they were legally entitled to
2. Dicker was promised 11 home games at the MCG as part of the compo for leaving Waverley
3. Its hardly a secret the AFL wants Hawthorn to leave.
4. Sunday late games are the worst for generating revenue. Why has one of the largest Vic clubs got so many of those games?
5. Melbourne get the Queens Birthday game which no sane person can justify

 

[Flukey!]

Its actually a disgrace the AFL has the whole fixture controversy at all.
In a level competition, we would play everyone once a season. One year we play at home, the next year we play away.
The draw can remain the same each year with just the ground changing.
There should be no club requests, no catering to TV, no nothing.

If they insist on 20 or 22 rounds, then have them as derbies/traditional rivals/ neighbours whatever it is and we play them at home once and away once.
While the AFL is solely focused on revenue and controlling the money pot, it will always be unfair.

And mostly the clubs that get shafted are the poorer performing clubs which is sadly us just for now.

 

[Off The Couch]

Its actually a disgrace the AFL has the whole fixture controversy at all.
In a level competition, we would play everyone once a season. One year we play at home, the next year we play away.
The draw can remain the same each year with just the ground changing.
There should be no club requests, no catering to TV, no nothing.

If they insist on 20 or 22 rounds, then have them as derbies/traditional rivals/ neighbours whatever it is and we play them at home once and away once.
While the AFL is solely focused on revenue and controlling the money pot, it will always be unfair.

And mostly the clubs that get shafted are the poorer performing clubs which is sadly us just for now.

We finished top 4 last year

 

[tige19]

Don’t hold your breath. Jeff has nothing to argue for. He has already done so. The Dingley project just became problematic. It might be rooted in its current form. The Conservatives don’t need to support the ALP commitment. And from my info. WONT.

Jeff won’t let his mates at the LNP get away with not supporting it, it will get done.

 

[tige19]

Would love the club to start a 10 year plan to construct our own stadium in Dingley, a 35-40k stadium to play all but big drawcard games.. could you imagine that? If we could get out of tassie and do that it would be amazing, economically I know it’d be a challenge but gee the reward would be brilliant.

 

[Hawkk]

Would love the club to start a 10 year plan to construct our own stadium in Dingley, a 35-40k stadium to play all but big drawcard games.. could you imagine that? If we could get out of tassie and do that it would be amazing, economically I know it’d be a challenge but gee the reward would be brilliant.

Wouldn’t that restrict the club to being nothing more than a provincial club?