Jumper clash fails

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beerbandit

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Mar 7, 2006
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I think most people realise that the SANFL was a pretty equivalent league to the VFL until around the late 80s (from memory an SA team beat the Vic team in like 92? and was still pretty competitive even until the late 90s when their was a national league anyway).

I dont think its unreasonable to count SANFL flags as the equivalent to VFL flags until that time. Would Port have won them pre 1990 against the Vic teams that wont the VFL flags, probably not but they also might have.

More importantly i dont think anyone is saying that Port has 35 or whatever AFL premierships, if someone is that is an equally silly argument. Consider for a second if the VFL in 1990 went "what well do is keep the vic teams and their history and bring in East Fremantle, Perth, Port and Glenelg to join the comp" then you would have to assume that the VFL, SANFL and WAFL teams would have all retained their heritage and premierships.

As it stands Port is completely unique as the only team to enter the competition after the AFL established itself as a pre existing team in a state league.

I think that uniqueness is really what sets the argument about them apart. When they say the prison bars matters their not making something up to suit an argument, when they say they are proud of their 35 SANFL flags it rings true.

I get the whole they made a new identity and should embrace it, i really do but at the same time, one game a year to wear the jumper they cherish as much as any Collingwood supporter does the black and white, played in SA really doesnt seem like a tough ask to me.
A lot of the SA players were at AFL clubs, Kernahan to name probably there best at the time.
 

PieLebo87

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9D0748CB-12AD-466B-97EB-4F9EB1F2D315.jpeg
 

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phantom13

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A lot of the SA players were at AFL clubs, Kernahan to name probably there best at the time.
Yeh im aware, hence the comment that VFL/SANFL/WAFL until the late 80s were fairly equivalent.

I know that some came across earlier than that, not nearly as many though and alot of people still talk about true greats that never left their state.
 

VicPark Bitter

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In was in response to a Port poster saying Port are the most successful club because they have won 36 Premierships. 1998 and 1999 was their reserves side in the SANFL. It would be the equivalent of Melbourne claiming that they have won 14 Premierships because they won the 2000 reserves premiership.
the bolded is incorrect.
Port Adelaide had a stand alone SANFL team until the end of 2013. Port did not have an AFL reserves team in the SANFL until the start of the 2014 season.
 

Soggy2112

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If only Norwood were able to gain entry into the AFL rather than the Crows. Would've had two clubs with great football heritage from SA in the comp, but a similar palava between the Red Legs and Demons would've ensued, like the Port and Collingwood.
I doubt it would’ve worked. Adelaide was able to gain support to compete in the AFL because it was representing the entire state, so people got behind it. Norwood wouldn’t have gotten anywhere near the support that the Crows did.
 

GWT6

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the bolded is incorrect.
Port Adelaide had a stand alone SANFL team until the end of 2013. Port did not have an AFL reserves team in the SANFL until the start of the 2014 season.
Fair enough - but doesn't really change the point does it?
 

doppleganger

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Anyone that seriously thinks it’s unreasonable that GEELONG supporters would prefer their HOME finals are played in GEELONG, especially when playing a Victorian team has rocks in their heads. The fact it won’t happen doesn’t change that they would want it.
They would want it.

But finals arent home games.

They are games dictated by the league, fans get equal access to them.

It has always been play them at the biggest ground available, as they are used to raise $$ for the entire league.
 

doppleganger

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Back when one team played home games at the G. So 1/12 had a home advantage in finals.
Melbourne, Richmond, North called the G home in the 80s.
Hawthorn, StK and Ess all called G/Waverley home in the 90s.
Finals have always been about getting huge crowds at the bif stadiums.
Yes and 125 years later, 14/18 clubs happen to play their home games at the same venue they get home finals at. From less than 10% in the 60s to 75%.
Sydney didnt get home finals at SCG
Ess/Carl/StK/North/WB dont get em at Etihad
Gold Coast may be sent up to Gabba if they ever get one.
Whether you like it or not, finals aren’t neutral anymore. They are just as much H+A as the regular season.
Victorian finals are just as they always have been - two clubs going at in a packed MCG with plenty of fans from both clubs packes in.
Great point, thank you. We want 11 home games and finals. Its a joke that clubs can sell home games to tassie, ballarat, darwin etc and still get their other home games where they please whilst we get told we should be considered lucky to go from 7 (which it was before 2017) to 9 home games at home.
Which Victorian club gets 11 home games at thier preferred ground?

Collingwood, Richmond and Hawthorn are fixtured home games at Etihad.

Melbourne sell them because they were to be at Etihad.

Geelong fans have the best deal going. 9 games at a toy stadium that no other club plays at, and then often 5 or 6 games at the G each year.
 

Tarkyn_24

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They would want it.

But finals arent home games.

They are games dictated by the league, fans get equal access to them.

It has always been play them at the biggest ground available, as they are used to raise $$ for the entire league.
Personally I think once Geelong’s ground is comparable in capacity and amenity to all other primary interstate grounds used for finals there should be no reason they don’t get their finals at home. AFL gate takings be damned, they’ve earned it.
 

doppleganger

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Personally I think once Geelong’s ground is comparable in capacity and amenity to all other primary interstate grounds used for finals there should be no reason they don’t get their finals at home. AFL gate takings be damned, they’ve earned it.
And then it becomes perfect to introduce two conferences.

A 9 team Melbourne conference, and a 9 team non-Melbourne conference.

Geelong should then be treated like the non-Melbourne teams and head interstate every other week, the trade off for having a genuine home ground advantage.
 

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Ice-Wolf

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Personally I think once Geelong’s ground is comparable in capacity and amenity to all other primary interstate grounds used for finals there should be no reason they don’t get their finals at home. AFL gate takings be damned, they’ve earned it.
Yes they've been quite spectacular at conning money out of various levels of government.
 

Broken

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How much revenue do clubs get from guernsey sales? Would it be profitable enough of an endeavour for to clubs to pump out a new clash/alternate jumper every couple of seasons?
I'm guessing it's not given most teams stances on jumper designs, but I'm curious as to the financials of such an exercise.
 

Soggy2112

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How much revenue do clubs get from guernsey sales? Would it be profitable enough of an endeavour for to clubs to pump out a new clash/alternate jumper every couple of seasons?
I'm guessing it's not given most teams stances on jumper designs, but I'm curious as to the financials of such an exercise.
No idea about how much they earn, but I would suspect that with the addition of an indigenous jumper for every team, and potentially various retro/promotional jumpers, that there’s no need for clubs/manufacturers to crank out a new clash every year or two like they use to. I reckon clubs will move towards a more permanent clash jumper, particularly for a club like Richmond who have won a flag in theirs.
 

melanChronic

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And then it becomes perfect to introduce two conferences.

A 9 team Melbourne conference, and a 9 team non-Melbourne conference.

Geelong should then be treated like the non-Melbourne teams and head interstate every other week, the trade off for having a genuine home ground advantage.
Yep, and gives Port the perfect next step on the road to the Prison bar holy grail-- all interconference games!
 

Ice-Wolf

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No idea about how much they earn, but I would suspect that with the addition of an indigenous jumper for every team, and potentially various retro/promotional jumpers, that there’s no need for clubs/manufacturers to crank out a new clash every year or two like they use to. I reckon clubs will move towards a more permanent clash jumper, particularly for a club like Richmond who have won a flag in theirs.
I'd be happy for St Kilda to settle for something like this plus a jumper for Indigenous Round:

Regular Games
stkilda-kits-2.png


Special Games
st-kilda-maddies-match-v2.png st-kilda-pride-game-v2.png
 

Obzerva

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May 3, 2018
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Probably an opinion likely to annoy both Collingwood and Port Adelaide supporters, but here goes.

Collingwood shouldn’t argue with PA being able to wear their black and white jumper once a year in Adelaide, eg for a showdown.

On the flip side, if Collingwood wanted to “protect” the black and white, PA should at the same time have teal in their jumper for all the other matches.
Dropping one of your club colours for half your games isn’t really conducive to creating an identity with them.

The above scenario is a case of you give a little, you get a little.
 

phantom13

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Probably an opinion likely to annoy both Collingwood and Port Adelaide supporters, but here goes.

Collingwood shouldn’t argue with PA being able to wear their black and white jumper once a year in Adelaide, eg for a showdown.

On the flip side, if Collingwood wanted to “protect” the black and white, PA should at the same time have teal in their jumper for all the other matches.
Dropping one of your club colours for half your games isn’t really conducive to creating an identity with them.

The above scenario is a case of you give a little, you get a little.
I think this is pretty fair.

The perfect Port home and clash set up is the black with teal and white V and then white with black and teal V. Give them the bars for their home Showdown (bars is a bit of a clash with Adelaides home) and everyone (bar a few extreme Pies and Port supporters) go home happy.
 

Dirty Bird

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I doubt it would’ve worked. Adelaide was able to gain support to compete in the AFL because it was representing the entire state, so people got behind it. Norwood wouldn’t have gotten anywhere near the support that the Crows did.
Agreed
I'd probably be a Sydney supporter (Dad had soft spots for North Melbourne (North) and South Melbourne come Sydney (Red and White)) - Then in the mid 90s we moved to Sydney. Probably end up supporting them as we couldn't bring ourselves to support Port or Norwood.

A family friend of ours who support Adelaide/Glenelg. He probably would've stuck with Richmond and his children are raised Tigers fans, rather than Crow fans.

Like, yes, Port/Norwood were the 2 biggest clubs in Adelaide at the time. But the cities fanbase would probably be heavier towards Vic clubs had it been Norwood or Glenelg or whoever in place of Adelaide. The Crows unified the state/south australian ex-pats.

And we've also seen at times Port struggling (ie. Primus era) - If that happened to another club, god, Norwood would probably be in a worse place than North Melbourne right now if they were in the same place as Adelaide.
 

Soggy2112

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Agreed
I'd probably be a Sydney supporter (Dad had soft spots for North Melbourne (North) and South Melbourne come Sydney (Red and White)) - Then in the mid 90s we moved to Sydney. Probably end up supporting them as we couldn't bring ourselves to support Port or Norwood.

A family friend of ours who support Adelaide/Glenelg. He probably would've stuck with Richmond and his children are raised Tigers fans, rather than Crow fans.

Like, yes, Port/Norwood were the 2 biggest clubs in Adelaide at the time. But the cities fanbase would probably be heavier towards Vic clubs had it been Norwood or Glenelg or whoever in place of Adelaide. The Crows unified the state/south australian ex-pats.

And we've also seen at times Port struggling (ie. Primus era) - If that happened to another club, god, Norwood would probably be in a worse place than North Melbourne right now if they were in the same place as Adelaide.
Yep, Port was only just big enough to survive that Primus era, and I wonder if Port hadn’t been so successful in the early 2000s whether they would have.
 

Bunk Moreland

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One part of the prison bars debate that is very much relevant here is Port's request to wear it twice per season in Showdowns.

If we had a proper freaking policy there's no way they'd be wearing it in away Showdowns even if Collingwood was fine with it. The Crows wear navy, you can't have the away team in a black jumper. Port away should be in their clash strip.
 

phantom13

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One part of the prison bars debate that is very much relevant here is Port's request to wear it twice per season in Showdowns.

If we had a proper freaking policy there's no way they'd be wearing it in away Showdowns even if Collingwood was fine with it. The Crows wear navy, you can't have the away team in a black jumper. Port away should be in their clash strip.
I’d almost guarantee the AFL don’t care about that part of it
 

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