Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[DragoDelph]

The good news is. if we beat the top 8 teams its like a double win. destiny is in our hands. Young squads can get a run of confidence im excited by it.

I think we’ll know by quarter time this week which way this season will go.

 

[dockshark]

The good news is. if we beat the top 8 teams its like a double win. destiny is in our hands. Young squads can get a run of confidence im excited by it.

You have to hand it to the resilient sense of optimism some Freo supporters have...

 

[dockerfemme]

We would definitely have to take a significant step up in performance to make the eight imho. I agree with the above that in 3 or 4 weeks time we should move the magnets a bit and trial some different things.

 

[arsesmart]

No finals this year imo. Time to look at different players, and different roles. Just like Young to midfield etc.
Time to structure for next year, which maybe JL’s last. Might not be either though, he could do a Hardwick

Might be a little early to fold up the tent right now, given we're a game and percentage away from top 4. But the next 4-5 games are obviously pivotal (and have some tough challenges in there).

Any experimentation, if we're at that stage, would probably start around round 17-18. That's an 8 or so game sized sandpit.

 

[arsesmart]

We would definitely have to take a significant step up in performance to make the eight imho. I agree with the above that in 3 or 4 weeks time we should move the magnets a bit and trial some different things.

We've pushed a number of contenders significantly and a bounce of the ball or two, an umpiring decision or three, a flatter arc on a kick here and there and we'd have won at least two more games.

I tend to think we're a fraction away from clicking into another gear.

 

[DragoDelph]

So my preseason prediction had us exactly at this position right now, and storming home to finish 5th.

It's long ass season folks. Lots still to happen.

(Although admittedly I did have the blues sitting the bed to finish 9th)

 

[dockshark]

We've pushed a number of contenders significantly and a bounce of the ball or two, an umpiring decision or three, a flatter arc on a kick here and there and we'd have won at least two more games.

I tend to think we're a fraction away from clicking into another gear.

What do you mean by contender? If you mean flag contender I'd say the only one we've played is Sydney?

 

[ubiquitous226]

Even last year when we were very average we had periods of good footy, this year has felt more consistent albeit with one particularly poor game plus last round which I'm not as negative about as some.

It's never this black and white but I had my go at how I see the remaining games for JLo to get to at least 8 more wins;
Must wins; St Kilda (Marvel), Western Bulldogs (Marvel), Gold Coast (Optus), Richmond (Optus), Hawthorn (UTAS), West Coast (Optus)
Need to split; 2x Melbourne (Alice Springs/Optus), Collingwood (Optus), Essendon (MCG)
Others; Sydney (SCG), Geelong (Optus), GWS (West Syd), Port Adelaide (Optus)

You could argue out of the last categories which fits where (eg. Collingwood/Essendon swapping with Geelong/Port at home).
Any slip ups in the first category have to be recovered elsewhere, which shows the failure to get one of Carlton/Port and the Eagles debacle may come back to bite.

If we are in the right form and can maintain reasonable consistency it's more than possible, so both those throwing the towel in and those still expecting finals have cases to make.

 

[GingerDocker]

Even last year when we were very average we had periods of good footy, this year has felt more consistent albeit with one particularly poor game plus last round which I'm not as negative about as some.

It's never this black and white but I had my go at how I see the remaining games for JLo to get to at least 8 more wins;
Must wins; St Kilda (Marvel), Western Bulldogs (Marvel), Gold Coast (Optus), Richmond (Optus), Hawthorn (UTAS), West Coast (Optus)
Need to split; 2x Melbourne (Alice Springs/Optus), Collingwood (Optus), Essendon (MCG)
Others; Sydney (SCG), Geelong (Optus), GWS (West Syd), Port Adelaide (Optus)

You could argue out of the last categories which fits where (eg. Collingwood/Essendon swapping with Geelong/Port at home).
Any slip ups in the first category have to be recovered elsewhere, which shows the failure to get one of Carlton/Port and the Eagles debacle may come back to bite.

If we are in the right form and can maintain reasonable consistency it's more than possible, so both those throwing the towel in and those still expecting finals have cases to make.

This sort of common sense, rational and centrist style of post is totally unwarranted...

 

[arsesmart]

What do you mean by contender? If you mean flag contender I'd say the only one we've played is Sydney?

Any team with a good chance of finishing top 4 is a contender.

 

[dockshark]

Any team with a good chance of finishing top 4 is a contender.

Hmm ok in that case I think it's Sydney and Carlton.

 

[ubiquitous226]

The other way to look at this is if we beat all of those outside the 8 then we have to win 2 more out of the other 8 games which are against teams in the 8.

We have the capability to do it, JLo has demonstrated his game plan is good enough if we can put it together.

Can we? I don't know.
We lack the firepower to go too far this year in my opinion, but we should be there or thereabouts for the top 8.
Teams' form always waxes and wanes a bit across the year, I'd love us to be the ones that click (and one of Port or Collingwood to be the ones that screw it up haha).

 

[Polly]

I hear what you're saying, both arguments actually with rgauci. The problem is the club is caught between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand it's good we're a 'young' team, building a positive-looking future with some gun drafts, but on the other....how patient do we have to be..?! How soon is now to quote a Smiths song? It's already 2024, into J-Lo's 5th year and the rebuild should be over. You draft 3 'gun' forwards, that's ace....very nice, about time! But in 3/4 years time....?!

It just keeps pushing the 'competing for Premierships' timeline back...or forwards. Or maybe nowhere, just no man's land. It's always good to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?! Stop trying to impress your fans with talk of an exciting future that keeps disappearing each year over the horizon when we can't contend. How can it realistically be 2024 and we still have a dysfunctional forward line, we've been discussing this problem forever!!! If this rebuild fails, the club fails and it might be catastrophic. A lot rides on it.

It's a bit scary. Are people prepared to 'wait' until.....when?! 2025? 2026, 2027?! 2028..?!?!?!

I'm not so sure, people are already bemoaning the 30-year draught, it's not easy to win the damn thing but we keep that revolving door of experienced players going and replacing them with more 'top end' draft picks. Some players might ultimately be replaceable - your Henrys, Logues, Tuckers and Lobbs, and even Acres and Schultz (probably the most required out of that bunch), but they're also players that have been in the system, developed and built chemistry and know-how with the guys that still remain here. Evidently there's enough quality in the defenders and mids right now, but stark and frighteningly barren up forward for the most part. Clearly the Treacy/Jackson/Amiss trio could be awesome propositions, but reality is, they're just getting going. Darcy (not through deliberate fault) is a problem right now, because his injuries are disrupting our cohesiveness and certainly our ability to use the Triple J threat in attack. Dogga, doing heaps of ruck work, looks burnt out to me, sadly. Our smalls conundrum is the area that's really fallible and weak right now.

Sometimes it feels like we're stuck in a kind of quasi-masochistic cycle where the club just gets sporadically excited by shiny new draft toys. That either don't make it, can't make it...or make it in 4 years time!! Look at that 2017 draft haul of the likes of Scott Jones, Tom North, Mitch Crowden and Switta, I mean blink and you miss most of them, gone in the blink of an eye. You sort of think what was the point in cutting so deep to replace 'mediocre talent' with more mediocre talent...?!?! Our drafting since then has been mostly spot on but you can't keep drafting LOTS forever, even with top 20 picks. At some point we need to add that polish and power, Baker and Warner would instantly rocket us into top 4 calculations. Clearly it's a pipedream right now, but that's where I'd be leaning more towards if I were the club. I don't get to decide though...

I don't know, I don't feel good about it. I think we should be trading in talent (which goes back to your point....who?!). Freo is not a destination club compared to the other 'big' clubs, so it's not easy to cherry pick out whoever you please - even if they're a WA born player or want to return home. It was weird we didn't try and trade in last year but we didn't have much currency because of the Jackson trade. I guess we could have used Port's first and our future first to get someone, but we didn't feel it needed to be done or couldn't find the right suitors. It's a tough gig this AFL caper, especially for a minnow like the Dockers.

I respect the club wants to project ambition and be 'bold', but this strategy and certain statements could backfire and leave them with some stinky egg on their face. I guess the next dozen or so weeks will give us a better indication on if we're closer to contending (I personally doubt it for 2024), let's hope something positive transpires though, especially after the hurt of the past few days.

Mate I’d just be happy to look forward to matches knowing we’ll be competitive in every match like Geelong fans must feel. Actually enjoy the game again. This rubbish of inconsistency for 30 odd years, win at home, lose away is just draining.

 

[dockshark]

The other way to look at this is if we beat all of those outside the 8 then we have to win 2 more out of the other 8 games which are against teams in the 8.

We have the capability to do it, JLo has demonstrated his game plan is good enough if we can put it together.

Can we? I don't know.
We lack the firepower to go too far this year in my opinion, but we should be there or thereabouts for the top 8.
Teams' form always waxes and wanes a bit across the year, I'd love us to be the ones that click (and one of Port or Collingwood to be the ones that screw it up haha).

If I had to bet, I would bet on Collingwood going into the top 4. I reckon positions 7,8, and 9 will be between GWS, Port, and us, with GC the smoky if they can sort out their form away from home a bit. I do think it's still possible for us to make 8th spot. But you are bang on, we need to win all games against bottom 8 sides starting on Saturday. Dropping the West Coast and Port games is really starting to look costly now...

 

[blue shark]

Mate I’d just be happy to look forward to matches knowing we’ll be competitive in every match like Geelong fans must feel. Actually enjoy the game again. This rubbish of inconsistency for 30 odd years, win at home, lose away is just draining.

How about for once we do a proper rebuild off field?
The best coach we’ve had is Lyon, and instead of staying bold we dropped
the ball. Then it was the magic beans of Cockburn.
Now it’s which trades will propel us up the ladder. Not that we haven’t seen or
heard this before.

 

[oldgoat]

Mate I’d just be happy to look forward to matches knowing we’ll be competitive in every match like Geelong fans must feel. Actually enjoy the game again. This rubbish of inconsistency for 30 odd years, win at home, lose away is just draining.

This is just ahistorical...even a bit hysterical.
We simply have not been inconsistent for 30 years!
If you find it soothing thats ok I guess...
But it renders us blind to real and significant change as it emerges.
Im smelling the roses.

 

[ubiquitous226]

If I had to bet, I would bet on Collingwood going into the top 4. I reckon positions 7,8, and 9 will be between GWS, Port, and us, with GC the smoky if they can sort out their form away from home a bit. I do think it's still possible for us to make 8th spot. But you are bang on, we need to win all games against bottom 8 sides starting on Saturday. Dropping the West Coast and Port games is really starting to look costly now...

There's a fair bit I find hard to read across the comp, as per usual.

Are Essendon good?
Are GWS down on form, their approach being countered or something else?
Can Collingwood get back to their best form?

And back to JLo, can he get us playing the footy the team seems capable of?
I don't believe in using our age as an excuse, but there is a risk we just need some time for development to be more consistent, which circles back to how we use our 3 first rounders as we have a clear talent gap.

Back to the list management thread!

 

[Polly]

This is just ahistorical...even a bit hysterical.
We simply have not been inconsistent for 30 years!
If you find it soothing thats ok I guess...
But it renders us blind to real and significant change as it emerges.
Im smelling the roses.

Hardly hysterical old goat! Not sure which team you’ve been following but doesn’t sound like the boys in Purple.

 

[Raz]

having been around for the past 30yrs.. Yes the Dockers are very inconsistent

The year we got minor premiership we didnt do well in finals at all

The year we got to a Grand final we couldnt kick straight

Every year, every coach.

It has been a long road and ony a Premiership or two or three will make the pain go away.

 

[oldgoat]

Hardly hysterical old goat! Not sure which team you’ve been following but doesn’t sound like the boys in Purple.

Home and Away seasons
2012, 7th
2013, 3rd
2014, 4th
2015, 1st
theres a consistent period there...

"30 years of inconsistency"
Myth busted just there
Hyperbole

We just look at stuff differently I guess

 

[Raz]

Home and Away seasons
2012, 7th
2013, 3rd
2014, 4th
2015, 1st
theres a consistent period there...

"30 years of inconsistency"
Myth busted just there
Hyperbole

We just look at stuff differently I guess

your looking at ladder positons for consitency ? We are talking game style. beating bottom 8 teams constantly not losing for no apparent reaspon

So no myth... we have yet to win a premiership
Consistency leads to winning more and more

 

[doppo]

Mate I’d just be happy to look forward to matches knowing we’ll be competitive in every match like Geelong fans must feel. Actually enjoy the game again. This rubbish of inconsistency for 30 odd years, win at home, lose away is just draining.

Oldgoats right though! - the Connolly era, specifically 2002-2003 is the only period off the top of my head were we would consistently win at home and lose away, as you've stated there. And we have one of the best away records in the league the last few years.

 

[Raz]

Oldgoats right though! - the Connolly era, specifically 2002-2003 is the only period off the top of my head were we would consistently win at home and lose away, as you've stated there. And we have one of the best away records in the league the last few years.

Such short periods of consistency

 

[pK75]

Oldgoats right though! - the Connolly era, specifically 2002-2003 is the only period off the top of my head were we would consistently win at home and lose away, as you've stated there. And we have one of the best away records in the league the last few years.

Yep, the last couple of years it’s been dropping the home games we should win that’s been the inconsistency.

 

[anchor man]

You have to hand it to the resilient sense of optimism some Freo supporters have...

That is why we are Docker supporters. We are resilient and bounce back regardless.
Imagine the other alternative from the leafy suburbs,