Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[Midnite65]

We also allowed them to chip it around and get it from end to end without us touching it. Sydney do that to us every time we play them and we can never stop it.

 

[Deathly]

Great presser by JL. Horse was classy with some words too.

 

[Madas]

Can’t hang that on him.
Players turn the ball over. Players make the decisions. Players kick the goals.
The midfield - forward connection is crap.

Yeh honestly that forward line is at least 3 players short of a six pack
Emmet
Voss
Banfield
Freddy

What’s worse is most of our key midfielders absolutely s**t their pants when going for goal
Fyfe
Serong
Brayshaw
O’Meara
Johnson

What the hell hope have we got ?
That’s half the team

 

[G Mus]

Less inside 50s, more marks inside 50, more shots on goal, better efficiency inside 50.

The delivery was fine tonight and not at all an issue

Disagree, they had an undermanned small backline and forced delivery and marks in s**t zones

 

[Mr Cheese]

Stats suggest that was a shootout / very close game. Goal tally not so much. I reckon we win that game 4 times out of ten. Sydney were better but everyone was off their goal kicking game, and we overused like heck at times.

Given the mental side of kicking and the pressure on tonight (even the young ones will have been affected by how clearly distraught Fyfe and Pearce were) it's not an inexplicable disaster and not one we'll likely see again. The boys showed up, Longmuir's game plan was actually pretty aggressive (ironically allowing Sydney to strike on turnover) and we played hard. I couldn't give a heck about the result tonight, they didn't roll over, that's all that matters.

On SM-G988U1 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[WilloTree]

Yeh honestly that forward line is at least 3 players short of a six pack
Emmet
Voss
Banfield
Freddy

What’s worse is most of our key midfielders absolutely s**t their pants when going for goal
Fyfe
Serong
Brayshaw
O’Meara
Johnson

What the hell hope have we got ?
That’s half the team

Yeah..sigh...same thing we've been saying for years.

It's impossible to know how well this team will go until we draft a forward line and finish the rebuild.

 

[WilloTree]

The fact is we are unlikey to make finals this year. Thatll mean JL has made the finals once in the five years he has been in charge. If anyone still defends him and finds that acceptable then it is a lost cause arguing with them.
JL supporters - if Longmuir or Mcrae were coaching this list do you think they would play finals? Of course they would

I'm actually stunned anyone can watch yesterday's game and pin it on the coach. That's just blind hatred.

It was so absolutely and abundantly clear why we weren't competitive on the scoreboard and it had nothing to do with JL.

I suppose he could nominate himself for the MSD, pull on the jumper and kick the goals for them, but even that's a stretch.

 

[Achin joints]

Our forward setup is a mess ,surely that's on the coach .I think JL has done some good stuff but we definitely lack cohesion and a decent set up.Our blokes never seem to get any separation.

 

[RazzleDazzler]

I'm actually stunned anyone can watch yesterday's game and pin it on the coach. That's just blind hatred.

It was so absolutely and abundantly clear why we weren't competitive on the scoreboard and it had nothing to do with JL.

I suppose he could nominate himself for the MSD, pull on the jumper and kick the goals for them, but even that's a stretch.

Im not blaming yesterdays loss on him. Thats why I pointed to his overall record of one finals visit in the whole five years of his time as Freo coach.
I feel we are close to being a competitive side. Its just that 1 out of 5 doesnt cut it (and thats just playing finals too let alone winning the whole thing)

 

[Dockeroo]

I'm actually stunned anyone can watch yesterday's game and pin it on the coach. That's just blind hatred.

It was so absolutely and abundantly clear why we weren't competitive on the scoreboard and it had nothing to do with JL.

I suppose he could nominate himself for the MSD, pull on the jumper and kick the goals for them, but even that's a stretch.

I’m on the same page as you regarding the lack of forward talent.
But dont you think we overuse the handball, especially inside 50. Isn’t that a coaching directive related to the JL gameplan?
Don’t get me wrong - it’s not JLs fault that Switta and Emmett can’t hit the side of a ******* barn door.
But the goals we do score are hard work and that’s surely somewhat related to the method and the coach no?

 

[freocuz]

We also allowed them to chip it around and get it from end to end without us touching it. Sydney do that to us every time we play them and we can never stop it.

This was my frustration last night too. Both teams should have known how the other plays, but only Sydney came in with a plan to stop the opposition playing the way they wanted.

JL’s plan every week seems to be to play our way and to hell with the opposition. And when you don’t have plans to stop your opponents, then your skills need to be absolute elite when playing the best sides.

He just doesn’t show any signs of being able to switch to plan B or C during the course of a match. That could be due to the confidence in the youth of the side, or lack thereof, but until that happens then I’m not sold on him taking us anywhere other than mid table.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Madas]

I’m on the same page as you regarding the lack of forward talent.
But dont you think we overuse the handball, especially inside 50. Isn’t that a coaching directive related to the JL gameplan?
Don’t get me wrong - it’s not JLs fault that Switta and Emmett can’t hit the side of a ******* barn door.
But the goals we do score are hard work and that’s surely somewhat related to the method and the coach no?

It’s without doubt a confidence thing and you can see that the more goals they miss the less they want to try the next time

Our small forwards are a joke when it hits the deck .
We had so much ground ball in that forward line and all it turns into is a pressured hand ball fest that eventually gets turned over

Our slow entry’s kill us but they are only slow because our forwards other than Amiss don’t make space and provide options , Treacy is good for a pack mark but is expected to do a hell of a lot particularly when Darcy ( the million dollar Mummy ) is out

We don’t have quality forwards and that’s it .

 

[Lach72]

The players didn't execute, but as long as Jlo's been in charge, it's been such a struggle to kick goals. I've seen very little improvement since 2020. I don't even remember it being this painful under Lyon.

Jlo gets a lot right. Particularly defensively, but I'm not convinced he has the tools to get us scoring consistently and be a contending top 4 team. I would love to be proven wrong but we need to be absolutely sure we have the right coach before our core group enters their window.

Are you serious? Like really serious?


Lyon had a hall of fame CHF, two peak all Australian small forwards, and a defensive forward who kicked 30-40 goals a year…

We currently have two 21 year old key forwards, a third in his second game and an assortment of smalls who couldn’t find the goals with a ******* gps

 

[Joao]

Are you serious? Like really serious?


Lyon had a hall of fame CHF, two peak all Australian small forwards, and a defensive forward who kicked 30-40 goals a year…

We currently have two 21 year old key forwards, a third in his second game and an assortment of smalls who couldn’t find the goals with a ******* gps

To be fair, the goals probably won't show up on the GPS...

 

[Bicco]

This is a long post about something I learnt recently and found interesting. Take from it what you will about our style of play.
I did my level 2 cricket coaching recently and one of the online speakers was a coaching analyst gooroo, formerly at Cricket Vic, Port Adelaide and now Essendon.
He promotes a 'learning' coaching style as opposed to a 'teaching' style. So players will drill scenarios over and over and learn/understand the best way to play in the situation. Keep in mind that the coaching stats guys analyse everything. Kick distance, time ball is in the air, who they kicked to, 1v1, 1v2, 2v1, etc. Etc.
Below was with PA.
One obvious scenario is 2 mins left and you need to score/defend from half back.
If the defensive team starts with the ball, the natural thing was maintain possession. Short, accurate kicks to team mates to play the clock down. No brainer.
When the attacking team starts with the ball, they naturally want to move the ball forwards quickly. What was learned after doing this dozens and dozens of times, was that the long kick to a contest down the line almost never resulted in a goal or even a score. I should add that the time it 'should' take to score from HB was 23 seconds. Repeat plays taught the players who were attacking, that the best chance of them scoring was to play in a similar way to the defenders with short accurate kicks maintaining possession. The long bomb was statically useless.
Watching games, you see this over and over. The long kick is the last option and teams are very much looking to handball or short kick rather than kick long. Maintaining possession is the most important thing.
Try and take note of how often a soccered ball out of the pack comes straight back. Picking the ball up will give the team the best chance of scoring.
Why post this? Well I think this is how we've trained our forwards to behave.
Always looking to get the ball into the hands of someone who can have a clear shot at goal rather than the hurried shot. Statically what were doing works, last night it didn't.
Walters is the only player in our team that I would say has natural goal sense. That is the ability to know where the goals are at all times and to be able to execute an accurate shot on goal almost without looking.
This skill/talent is unteachable IMO.
These players only need to pop up 4 or 5 times a game, get involved in the above mentioned handball chain and score with less time needed than most.
Walters is on a downward trajectory but he also spent the first 3/4's on the bench.
The way we play might work 80% of the time, but it also doesn't work 20% of the time. And that's why natural goal kickers are so important. That 20% is their time to shine. We score 80% of our shots last night and we are right in it, we also take thos 20% chances and we win.
I don't think the basic premise of our coaching is wrong. We will beat lots of teams. But we were beaten last night by a team that kept pressure on us all night but most importantly scored, almost literally, 100% of the time. We were no chance.
We're not playing badly, and where we need to improve is perfectly clear. The question is, can we do it?

 

[Joao]

This is a long post about something I learnt recently and found interesting. Take from it what you will about our style of play.
I did my level 2 cricket coaching recently and one of the online speakers was a coaching analyst gooroo, formerly at Cricket Vic, Port Adelaide and now Essendon.
He promotes a 'learning' coaching style as opposed to a 'teaching' style. So players will drill scenarios over and over and learn/understand the best way to play in the situation. Keep in mind that the coaching stats guys analyse everything. Kick distance, time ball is in the air, who they kicked to, 1v1, 1v2, 2v1, etc. Etc.
Below was with PA.
One obvious scenario is 2 mins left and you need to score/defend from half back.
If the defensive team starts with the ball, the natural thing was maintain possession. Short, accurate kicks to team mates to play the clock down. No brainer.
When the attacking team starts with the ball, they naturally want to move the ball forwards quickly. What was learned after doing this dozens and dozens of times, was that the long kick to a contest down the line almost never resulted in a goal or even a score. I should add that the time it 'should' take to score from HB was 23 seconds. Repeat plays taught the players who were attacking, that the best chance of them scoring was to play in a similar way to the defenders with short accurate kicks maintaining possession. The long bomb was statically useless.
Watching games, you see this over and over. The long kick is the last option and teams are very much looking to handball or short kick rather than kick long. Maintaining possession is the most important thing.
Try and take note of how often a soccered ball out of the pack comes straight back. Picking the ball up will give the team the best chance of scoring.
Why post this? Well I think this is how we've trained our forwards to behave.
Always looking to get the ball into the hands of someone who can have a clear shot at goal rather than the hurried shot. Statically what were doing works, last night it didn't.
Walters is the only player in our team that I would say has natural goal sense. That is the ability to know where the goals are at all times and to be able to execute an accurate shot on goal almost without looking.
This skill/talent is unteachable IMO.
These players only need to pop up 4 or 5 times a game, get involved in the above mentioned handball chain and score with less time needed than most.
Walters is on a downward trajectory but he also spent the first 3/4's on the bench.
The way we play might work 80% of the time, but it also doesn't work 20% of the time. And that's why natural goal kickers are so important. That 20% is their time to shine. We score 80% of our shots last night and we are right in it, we also take thos 20% chances and we win.
I don't think the basic premise of our coaching is wrong. We will beat lots of teams. But we were beaten last night by a team that kept pressure on us all night but most importantly scored, almost literally, 100% of the time. We were no chance.
We're not playing badly, and where we need to improve is perfectly clear. The question is, can we do it?

I don't think there is anything wrong about the coaching. It's likely not optimal, but I think it could potentially win a flag.

The issue is, we don't have the players to pull it off. I'd argue Amiss is as natural as Walters is, but he's so young and another than those two, nobody else has it. I don't think this style will work, for exactly the reasons you say, until we have those forwards. At least 2 more, but probably 3 more of them (to account for Walters retiring).

 

[Madas]

I’m on the same page as you regarding the lack of forward talent.
But dont you think we overuse the handball, especially inside 50. Isn’t that a coaching directive related to the JL gameplan?
Don’t get me wrong - it’s not JLs fault that Switta and Emmett can’t hit the side of a ******* barn door.
But the goals we do score are hard work and that’s surely somewhat related to the method and the coach no?

Sorry to go on but I’m pretty pissed at that performance after we drove 400km in a rush to get there ( it’s not about me though and I respect the fact the boys were dealing with the loss of Cam and a 5 day break)

I’m just thinking on the handball thing and wonder whether it is an ugly spin off of the JL’s defensive flooding game plan where we are so deep in defence that quick kicking would out run our backward running so it slows up

I don’t know , gotta stop whinging , but that was insipid and the game style plays a big part in the shitness , that’s on the coach

 

[poshman]

Imagine having the #1 clearance team in the comp at your disposal and you come up with a gameplan that completely neuters them.

Yep, very strange game and game plan.

We continue to select players forward of the ball who are effort over skill.

I don't know who has the biggest say at selection, but I assume the coach has a big say.

 

[doppo]

I think the hard truth is that realistically we shouldn’t expect to be a serious threat until Amiss, Jackson and Treacy are nearing their peak, which is at least 2 years away.

In the meantime we need to find and develop some class to support them. Until we have that quality up forward I empathise with Jlo as it’s feels like he’s coaching with a handicap.

Brayshaw, Young and Serong to spend their next 2 pre seasons working relentlessly on their forward craft.

 

[Kram]

Need one or 2 talented small/medium forwards.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I get the over hand balling thing but surely a not so small part of it is the fact there is only one guy under 190cm that can actually finish? Like, no amount of coaching is going to change that fact they don’t have the talent to finish under pressure?

I get being frustrated at JL but losing Schultz and Walters being another year older has just reached critical mass up there

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I saw a bunch of blokes who had other s**t on their mind last night. Ordinarily, I'd call it another example of how mentally weak this team is, but given the circumstances, I'm not sure there's much to be taken out of the game.

 

[dockshark]

It’s true that JL is a bit constrained by the age demographic of his key forwards and lack of classy finishing small. We could help ourselves though by straightening up, taking more entries from the corridor and moving the ball faster. This assists with giving the forwards a more square on look at goals and taking their marks on the first or second lead rather than 5th or 6th as happens too often now. Don’t underestimate the fatigue factor when taking shots.

Absolutely manage expectations but I firmly believe we could make some structural and method adjustments (evolution not revolution) and give the current forwards a better chance.

 

[blue shark]

It’s true that JL is a bit constrained by the age demographic of his key forwards and lack of classy finishing small. We could help ourselves though by straightening up, taking more entries from the corridor and moving the ball faster. This assists with giving the forwards a more square on look at goals and taking their marks on the first or second lead rather than 5th or 6th as happens too often now. Don’t underestimate the fatigue factor when taking shots.

Absolutely manage expectations but I firmly believe we could make some structural and method adjustments (evolution not revolution) and give the current forwards a better chance.

Coach has been doing too many Jaeger Bombs.

 

[heypenny]

Are you serious? Like really serious?


Lyon had a hall of fame CHF, two peak all Australian small forwards, and a defensive forward who kicked 30-40 goals a year…

We currently have two 21 year old key forwards, a third in his second game and an assortment of smalls who couldn’t find the goals with a ******* gps

Mate, I’m not sure why you focused on one minor reference in my post about Lyon.

If you go back and re-read, my main point is why we haven’t improved our scoring in 4.5 years under JL. We’ve been bottom 6 for scoring every year (not counting this year as we’ve played more games than most).

Maybe you’re happy with our scoring. But I think it’s a legitimate concern to bring up on a public forum. I want to see improvement. I desperately want us to have our set-up and coaching right before much of our team enters their prime. So yes, I am serious.