Opinion Knightsight, Hinesight and Hindsight Nov 2016 and 2017

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2010
16,950
15,277
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
2016
Knightsight:

30. Willem Drew (9 in my power rankings)
45. *Brad Scheer (16 on draft board - bid) likely matched. Given that Dylan Clarke (20 in power rankings)
50. *Lachlan Tiziani (21 in power rankings - bid) likely matched. Given that Ben Ronke (25 power rankings - actual position 17 in rookie draft)
57. Brodie Romensky (26 in power rankings)
RD.
7. Brett Eddy (35 power rankings)
24. Jonty Scharenberg (28 power rankings)
40. Liam Ryan (41 power rankings)
51. Jye Bolton (40 power rankings)

*extra notes: was opposed to the matching of bids for Callum Brown and Josh Daicos with neither inside my top 40 and other talents still available rated more highly.

*Trade move notes: Trades I would not have done for what was offered: Witts, Cloke, WHE, Frost, Williams. Only deal I would have agreed to was Dunn at that price. Williams of those was off the table entirely and indispensable as a defender while the others had the deals been more favourably to Collingwood or with pieces I value more highly to be of interest to me.
*Free agency: Would have retained Nathan Brown and felt while capable the prices were far too much to be considered for Wells and Mayne.

Hinesight:

30. Sam McLarty
35. Callum Brown
50. Kayle Kirby
57. Josh Daicos
RD:
7. Mitch McCarthy
24. Henry Schade
40. Liam Mackie
51. Max Lynch

*draft notes. Only pick I liked was the selection of Kayle Kirby liking his play in the VFL for Richmond. Way too early for McLarty who missed much of the year with injury and looked like a late pick at best. Brown/Daicos I felt through have been later picks. Mackie of the rookies was the only one I gave any shot to develop without being one I would have picked myself.

Hindsight:

Foreword: I feel two years on I beat out the Collingwood recruiters with my 2016 draft effort in identifying Ronke and Ryan who was drafted two years later who both have achieved AFL success. Jye Bolton two years Jye Bolton remains an AFL midfielder stuck in the state leagues.
30. Sean Darcy (I didn't see this coming. Wasn't in my top 50 and looked average in the TAC Cup. Exploded during his first year in the AFL system and looks like one of the few really good ruckmen in the competition). Tom Stewart who Geelong recruited as a mature age defender is the other who in hindsight would have been sensational here but I give Darcy the edge based on age having a lot more good football ahead of him. Stewart I rated at 45 in my extended draft board and felt had a chance to carve out a role as he in the end did)
45. Lewis Young (an early call but as a key defender I feel he can become a monster. Didn't have in inside my top 50 as a junior and another who in that first season really shocked me with how much better he looked, particularly in those first few games as a powerful marking force)
50. Jack Graham (39 in my power rankings and one I thought would go earlier. Great ball winner as a junior with the performances on the board through the u18 champs)
57. Luke Ryan (Rated 43 on my draft board Ryan is another who I liked but just not as much as those others I took above. Can have a long career in defence)
RD.
7. Tim Kelly
(2017 draft - didn't rate at this stage and was lacking the contested side of his game at this point. Has blossomed into an excellent AFL midfielder and has worked out better than anyone else remaining in the pool here)
24. Liam Ryan (41 power rankings - one I advocated in 2016 but it took another year for him to get picked after another year where he further elevated his game as a forward. One a lot of AFL clubs skipped on due to character/lazy questionmarks but one year into his career now he's a premiership player)
40. Brody Mihocek (2017 rookie draft - immediate impact)
51. Bayley Banfield (2017 rookie draft - immediate impact and looks a long term piece. Had the production on the board in his draft year but took another step in 2017 and rated at 43)

Summary: A year I give myself the edge early days with Brown/Daicos and Lynch the only remaining and none of them looking like best 22 players just yet. Jye Bolton while still not on an AFL list I feel would give great competition for spots if not be best 22 while Liam Ryan would improve the front half with my final two rookie picks. Willem Drew I feel can still come good, Dylan Clarke still is hanging around and Ben Ronke showed some exciting signs in 2018 and with midfield minutes could find another level.


2017
Knightsight:
(who I would have taken if I had the picks to make in Collingwood's position)

Pick 6: Darcy Fogarty (went to Adelaide pick 12)
Knightmare says: My personal choice at 6. Has the upside to be the best in the draft with his size, explosiveness and damaging kick. I envisage him as a big bodied midfielder down the track, but would start his career as a tall forward.
Draft board position: 5

Pick 39: Charlie Ballard (went to Gold Coast pick 42)
Knightmare says: May be one clubs regret passing on. Was in the mix first round. A late bloomer. 195cm. Grew 15cm in the past two years. Has played wing up to this point and is an evasive, smooth moving, highly skilled type. Also a strong contested. One I would develop as a key forward, and see potentially having the scope to be as good as any key forward in this draft, with his rate of improvement as high as any by position which is a great indicator for future development with talls.
Power rankings position: 18 (I had Brayden Crossley one position higher but went with Ballard on list fit/needs basis as I rate both similarly)

Pick 56: Gryan Miers (went to Geelong pick 57) -
Knightmare says: Was expected to go earlier. Kicked 50 goals from 17 TAC Cup games, leading the competition, and kicked seven in the TAC Cup Grand Final. Smartest forward in the draft and always seems to be in the right spot. Ideal crumbing forward.
Power rankings position: 22 (taken before Butts as Miers was viewed as more likely to be picked)

Pick 60: Jordan Butts (undrafted)
Knightmare says: Youngest in the draft. Led the TAC Cup averaging 7.5 marks per game. Strong mark and reads the flight as well as any in the draft. Can play forward or back, but feels ideally suited to playing key defence. I would develop with an intent for him to succeed Ben Reid at CHB, with his strength similarly taking intercept marks.
Power rankings position: 20

Summary: Long term KPP stocks would be looking much healthier if we were to have gone this year with skilled height walking in the door. Miers also offers something different up front. Would be stoked if this was the outcome with all played taken inside my top 22 power rankings!

RD.
6. Cassidy Parish (29 in power rankings)

22. Charlie Thompson (34 in power rankings)

*Some other quick offseason notes: Would not have moved the future second as part of a trade for Sam Murray not feeling the price is right.


Hinesight: (actual picks)

Pick 6 – Jaidyn Stephenson
Knightmare says: A good list fit and a suitable selection here. Collingwood lack running height and Stephenson adds that. Big game, big moment player is a bonus. Has a far from perfect game. Inconsistent kick and marking also inconsistent. But a high leaper and capable ball winner. Able to play wing, forward or even push onto the ball.

Pick 39 – Nathan Murphy
Knightmare says: Collingwood believed to have rated Murphy inside their top 10 on their draft board. Despite this, it's around where I would have said Murphy should feature. Flanker who can play both ends. Has some scope to develop.

Pick 50 – Tyler Brown (bid matched)
Knightmare says: A bid before 39 should not have been matched. At 50, a bid is suitable and a fine outcome for those who love the romanticism surrounding father son choices. Not much of a ball winner at this stage which puts me off taking him, but he does have evasiveness and class.

*Pass

Summary: No KPPs added which isn't ideal, but Collingwood like the value of the picks taken and are happy to add Brown. Outside pace and skill needs the focus with this draft.

RD.
6. Flynn Appleby

22. Brody Mihocek

33. Adam Oxley


Hindsight:
Pick 6: Jaidyn Stephenson (Had I known his heart was good going into the draft I would have rated at 6 *one place behind Darcy Fogarty but early days while Fogarty has shown some serious glimpses Stephenson as the Rising Star is hard to say no to)

Pick 39: *Would bid on Brayden Crossley here. Assuming matched I'd do the Charlie Ballard pick again feeling long term as a key forward or tall win he can develop with 11 first season games. James Worpel as a mid is another who represents strong value here and is another I liked going into the draft rating at 23 in my power rankings.

Pick 56: Bailey Banfield (liked him rating at 43 but his first season was outstanding and he looks like an excellent long term mid. Only just missed out on selection from my own board with a few others I slightly preferred. Liked as an overager on the back of his WAFL League production and no surprise it has carried over)

Pick 60: *TBD

RD.
6. Brody Mihocek (At this stage looks good. Not one I would have taken but was one of the better KPPs outside the AFL. Just liked a few others a little more and questioned whether he would be tall or quick enough)

22. *TBD

Summary: Early days with the instant success of Stephenson and Mihocek you'd give the club the edge though I still like my choices and even two years on feel Parish and Thompson were hard done by to get overlooked. Glad to see Butts a year on get picked as a rookie by Adelaide in 2018 as a developable KPP.


*Unrelated list ideas I would have taken Josh Walker as a free agent. Would not have taken Darcy Cameron through trade. Like the James Aish trade with Aish someone I don't view as best 22 and feel hasn't been good enough in the finals.


**draft performance v Carlton continued:
Carlton take:
17 Brodie Kemp
20 Sam Philp
47 Sam Ramsay
PSD
1. Jack Martin
RD
3. Josh Honey
18. Fraser Phillips

Knightmare:
17 Brodie Kemp
20 Deven Robertson
47 Ryan Byrnes
PSD
1. Jack Martin
RD
3. Joshua Shute
18. Angus Baker



*Past attempts
Did I even do one last year? If so I'm happy to link it up here also.

2015: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightsight-v-hinesight-v-hindsight.1118177/

2014: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightsight-v-hinesight-v-hindsight.1082834/

2013: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hinesight-knightsight-and-hindsight-end-of-2013.1041937/

2012: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hinesight-knightsight-and-hindsight.981606/
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2010
16,950
15,277
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
*Note that it should need to be said. But feel free to take a shot yourselves at beating either myself or Dekka with your best picks.
 
Last edited:

unplugged

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 8, 2008
11,175
14,659
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
People scoffed when I suggested we looked at Lochie O'Brien with pick 6 and he went at 10. That's as close as I come to fame!

Great efforts this year Knightmare. Hope you do another thread next year and keep us nice and up to date with Quaynor and whoever else.
 

Apex36

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2014
27,401
49,972
AFL Club
Collingwood
People scoffed when I suggested we looked at Lochie O'Brien with pick 6 and he went at 10. That's as close as I come to fame!

Great efforts this year Knightmare. Hope you do another thread next year and keep us nice and up to date with Quaynor and whoever else.
Yeah but he was picked by SOS, who I’m still not convinced is particularly good at junior talent ID.
 

4#Didak#4

Premiership Player
May 21, 2007
3,578
2,621
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
I am a bit gutted no Fogarty as I can quite comfortably see him developing into an elite AFL player. He was a safe bet and a good fit IMO.

Having said that Stephenson is intriguing, but I do have mixed concerns about him. For some reason I see a lot of WHE in him, this is not necessarily a bad thing but it doesn't excite me all that much. What does excite me is his pace, it is breathtaking and is an elite quality that will stand him apart, he makes some of those guys look like they are standing still as he blazes past him (mind you last time I was excited about a Collingwood draftee with pace it was N. Freeman). He does have an x-factor and will be exciting to watch, but we do have a lot of exciting guys on their day, do we have enough reliable soldiers week to week?

Also, I don't feel he is a great kick. I think our field kicking needs to be a prerequisite before bringing any mid in so as to slowly improve our overall lists deficiency there. The best teams use the ball well by foot. I may be wrong but Stephenson isn't up to scratch in this area.

I think in retrospect we did poorly not having a second rounder where we could have got quite a decent KPP. A lot were taken before we had an opportunity - I thought some would slide, like Balta but it was Murphy who slid and is a good get but no KPP, so that makes us look a bit silly and holes in the list.

Murphy looks like a natural footballer and will be solid for us.
 

regpies

Club Legend
Sep 19, 2011
2,630
3,402
AFL Club
Collingwood
So why did we get another WHE? But one that’s not a good kick.

The whole need for pace is obvious but if you hit targets you don’t need to be as quick. I can think of times when we look painfully slow and sloppy. Then 2wks later look like the quickest team in the league.

Decision making and kicking accuracy is more important than pure speed. No better example of that is Ben Sinclair, terrible decision maker and ordinary kick, but could run fast so kept getting games.
 

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2010
16,950
15,277
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
Stephenson's position and attributes are similar-ish to WHE, but they're different players.

WHE has the pace, endurance, aerial marking including sticky hands, but has never been able to find much of the footy.

Stephenson while he is also tall and provides the run, is an aerial marking threat (without the sticky hands) is a much more capable ball winner. He will win the contested ball when it is his turn and he has a much easier time finding the footy - wing/midfield or forward. My expectation is Stephenson will be the better of the two. He's more like Isaac Smith (pace toned down slightly), if Smith was a more capable contested ball winner.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

swoop42

Premiership Player
Sep 29, 2014
3,640
6,723
The 22
AFL Club
Collingwood
From my limited knowledge I personally believe we took best available at both picks 6 and 38.

I actually surmise we have left the draft with two 1st round selections if based on how Hine rated the prospects and I feel the same sense of optimism that I had when we drafted both Sidebottom and Beams.

Time of course will only tell on all players selected tonight.

If a bid hadn't of come for Brown and pick 56 remained a live selection we opted to use then Grian Miers looks to be one of the best credentialed players left that were subsequently taken.

I'm comfortable though that we took Brown as his development has been limited to date but he's shown enough that another club beside ourselves rated him enough to place a bid.

At our final opportunity that we chose to pass on only Garner is a name I recognize from draft discussions when it comes to junior talent.

Barry the very next taken was linked to us at times as a recycled option. I'm comfortable passing on both.

Of what's left come the rookie draft I like the sound of this Butts you have spoke of as someone who has scope for development in a key position, Keitel another who has performed admirably by all reports at WAFL level these past two seasons. Brody Mihocek has been mentioned in passing. Given McCarthy, Schade and Keeffe were all delisted you'd think we'd be looking for some adequate cover for our spine in the VFL at least even if they don't end up making the grade.

P.S-Any idea the reasoning behind the McCarthy delisting?

Was the foot injury career ending, did McCarthy struggle with the rehab side of things or was it that the club simply decided he wasn't good enough?

Given he was our first selection last season and with the lack of depth in his area I was surprised we didn't give him another season tbh.
 

Bard

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2012
5,785
5,153
Fitzroy
AFL Club
Collingwood
Stephenson's position and attributes are similar-ish to WHE, but they're different players.

WHE has the pace, endurance, aerial marking including sticky hands, but has never been able to find much of the footy.

Stephenson while he is also tall and provides the run, is an aerial marking threat (without the sticky hands) is a much more capable ball winner. He will win the contested ball when it is his turn and he has a much easier time finding the footy - wing/midfield or forward. My expectation is Stephenson will be the better of the two. He's more like Isaac Smith (pace toned down slightly), if Smith was a more capable contested ball winner.
Based on his traits, he seems like someone who assuming he manages to put on plenty of muscle (which may or may not be a big IF, depending on his genetics), he could grow into the mold of someone like Fyfe. Does that seem accurate?

Regarding people going on about kicking, obviously everyone knows our efficiency is sub-par, but I don't see the top 10 picks as the area to address that. The good kicks and outside types can be found later in the draft, and we've attempted to do so with Murphy.
 

Hardas

Hall of Famer
May 7, 2011
32,547
9,513
Wangaratta
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Celtics, Tottenham, Oakland Raiders
From my limited knowledge I personally believe we took best available at both picks 6 and 38.

I actually surmise we have left the draft with two 1st round selections if based on how Hine rated the prospects and I feel the same sense of optimism that I had when we drafted both Sidebottom and Beams.

Time of course will only tell on all players selected tonight.

If a bid hadn't of come for Brown and pick 56 remained a live selection we opted to use then Grian Miers looks to be one of the best credentialed players left that were subsequently taken.

I'm comfortable though that we took Brown as his development has been limited to date but he's shown enough that another club beside ourselves rated him enough to place a bid.

At our final opportunity that we chose to pass on only Garner is a name I recognize from draft discussions when it comes to junior talent.

Barry the very next taken was linked to us at times as a recycled option. I'm comfortable passing on both.

Of what's left come the rookie draft I like the sound of this Butts you have spoke of as someone who has scope for development in a key position, Keitel another who has performed admirably by all reports at WAFL level these past two seasons. Brody Mihocek has been mentioned in passing. Given McCarthy, Schade and Keeffe were all delisted you'd think we'd be looking for some adequate cover for our spine in the VFL at least even if they don't end up making the grade.

P.S-Any idea the reasoning behind the McCarthy delisting?

Was the foot injury career ending, did McCarthy struggle with the rehab side of things or was it that the club simply decided he wasn't good enough?

Given he was our first selection last season and with the lack of depth in his area I was surprised we didn't give him another season tbh.
I imagine many of us are wondrring the same thing about McCarthy.
The other possibility is he's physically okay and returning to basketball?
 

Kappa

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2014
17,320
20,457
AFL Club
Collingwood
I imagine many of us are wondrring the same thing about McCarthy.
The other possibility is he's physically okay and returning to basketball?
Did his foot again in one of the last VFL games and was never seen again then unexpectedly delisted... You can put 2 and 2 together
 

Saintly Viewed

Premium Platinum
Aug 10, 2015
47,337
38,986
AFL Club
Collingwood
Signed with Frankston the other day

Sounds like that is his level.

Overall pleasing draft.

Stephenson and Murphy both project as ten year best 22 players (assuming some initial patience as they make their way into seniors).

Stephenson surely is the death knell for players like Blair, as looks to have that something that the average players seem to never have.

Stephenson, Murphy will push out some of the old guard in my view.
 

Saintly Viewed

Premium Platinum
Aug 10, 2015
47,337
38,986
AFL Club
Collingwood
Trust Knightmare you don't mind this, but I've copied pasted your link with the 2012 draft.
Is it 5 years already.

Interesting time frame and too see how things shape with five years of hind Sight.

***********************************************

Just a little bit of fun and something to bring down the track to see who got things right.
Will also throw some rookie selections in when the rookie draft and preseason draft comes around.


Hinesight: (Where Derek Hine and Collingwood have selected players in this years draft)
18: Brodie Grundy (Comments under Knightsight)
19: Ben Kennedy (Will be a good selection and while I rated others more highly I see him as someone who almost certainly will play games in season one and could be a really nice rotation fwd/mid who perhaps can take Dayne Beams' old post as that weapon forward flanker long term. Still a good selection)
20: Tim Broomhead (Probably a few I would have selected before him but a player with some ability. Was always going to go top 30 but really interesting that we took him and made it a SA trio first round to add to our very small South Australian group which consisted before tonight of only Didak. Really nice user of the footy and we'll probably look at him as that potential next egneration Didak replacement as that playmaking forward and high half forward)
38: Jackson Ramsay (A surprise selection, I'm probably one of the few on bigfooty who rated him inside their top 40. Like with Broomhead there are others I rated more highly but Ramsay is not a terrible get here and with his pace off a back flank or wing could be someone who with some luck finds a role. Impressive pre-injury form this year in the WA colts)
--
13: Kyle Martin (A good get and really pleasing Essendon overlooked him! The pick of our rookies and one I had very high on my shortlist. Will give our VFL midfield a big boost and is a strong chance to get promoted. For mine the better of the state league midfielders to get selected this year and can step into the senior team if needed)
27: Sam Dwyer (Another really good get and very pleased that we added him. Can play if required and like Martin gives our VFL side a big boost through the midfield. Well in that mix for promotion with his talent. Excellent user of the footy by foot and finds those forwards like few others adding much needed skill to a midfield probably needing some better ball users by foot)
35: Adam Oxley (Back flanker who is a good height and can play a variety of sizes. Despite his age possibly not as advanced as you'd think but he'll certainly add some much needed rebound to the back half at VFL level. I liked his play for QLD in the u18s but there were some other backmen I liked more and feel can have a more immediate impact)
41: Jack Frost (Athletic key defender. Has talent and stiff not to get rookied in years past but not sure he is a need with so many quality key defence options and more than enough key defence depth)
47: Ben Hudson (Strong option as cover for Jolly if required come finals time but a mentor to Witts and Grundy first until required)
49: Peter Yagmoor (A good move delisting him and moving him to the rookie list. Was struggling with the pace of VFL football so probably wasn't going to be much use to us in the immediate on the senior list so better off giving the other rookies that greater opportunity to receive promotion and senior opportunities)


Knightsight (where I would select each player given who was available at each point):
18: Brodie Grundy (Best ruckman in the draft and solves our immediate and long term ruck problems. A no brainer and one clubs will in future seasons rue passing on. Clear top 5 talent this year and the bargain of the draft at this point)
19: Tom Clurey (For mine the best key defender in the draft. Has a really complete game with elite endurance, elite skillset, as well as a solid 1v1 game. Not a need but rated him a top 10 selection)
20: Nathan Hrovat (I consider him a touch better than Kennedy despite not having the same attractive weapons but Hrovat would have been my selection instead as that small. Best performed player in all of the u18s and dominated in all levels of play from APS, TAC and U18 national level. Immediate player and has an elite inside game and has outperformed all competition consistently and I see big success ahead of him at the next level. I would have happily taken him with any selection after 10 and another I see real value in at this point)
38: Dayle Garlett (Predraft there was strong word that Garlett would be looked at by West Coast at 45 and in understanding that he would likely be available at this selection he would have been my selection here. Additionally I rated Garlett below Clurey and Hrovat anyway after understanding in more detail his off-field issues. Top 5 talent if you take away his issues and is one I'd trust the club with a strong culture to turn around with plenty of players on other AFL teams worse)
-- (note having taken Garlett already I can't take him again in the rookie draft)
13: Jason Pongracic (A surprise to get him here but very pleasing he got through as the highest player remaining on my list not named Garlett. Ultimately overlooked completely having struggled this season with injury and being restricted to mostly playing as a forward. Strong chance to get drafted next year if he comes back and persists and one of those guys where with a full preseason he has the ability to be something. Footskills damaging, has nice marking ability and that strong body and ability to win his own ball. Lacking a yard of pace but as that next generation inside midfielder is what I'd be looking for with those other mids more finesse types. Hard call overlooking Kyle Martin as I rate him very highly, Martin will have the more immediate impact being that proven VFL performer this season but with Ball and Swan still with more years to play and another mature midfielder in mind later and no guarantees Pongracic would be available at that next selection I would have taken him here)
27: Tom Langdon (Langdon I rate highly and feel is another who was exceptionally stiff not to be drafted. Langdon really exploded in the second half of the season coming from obscurity and become one of the best players on his team. Langdon is a tall back flanker who is essentially much the same thing as Oxley though I rate him slightly higher and see more upside in his game. Langdon also has nice footskills and a solid shutdown game but also can step into the midfield and win his own footy and clear the ball from congestion which he demonstrated during the TAC finals series which really impressed me. Another guy where if he keeps working at it and improves his game as he did this year and very much find himself on a list and not just win a list position but also find a role on a team)
35: Sam Heavyside (Small midfielder and very light in stature but has a rare midfield game. In the end went undrafted because he broke his foot and missed a large portion of the season but he showed more than enough to suggest he should be drafted. What makes him stand out is despite his relative lack of height and light body he doesn't get knocked off the ball and has that rare natural inside ability and is a dominant clearance player. In mind my his game very much can translate at the next level because it's not predicated on size but rather rare inside ability. He's another where I really hope he comes back and gives it another shot because he is very much capable of making it onto an AFL list and succeeding in an AFL environment)
41: Ben Duscher (With Kyle Martin most likely not available at this stage, I can only speculate anyway I'm more than happy to take Ben Dushcer here who I rated a fraction more highly anyway and with Pongracic as a strong bodied midfielder earlier and Heavyside as another natural inside type I though I'd go with the best state league midfielder who has the ability to play either inside or outside to a high level but also has excellent footskills. Duscher went undrafted having struggled with injury but I'm very confident he has the ability to make the transition and if he can put together a full year next year I don't see why he can't get onto an AFL list being that class above)
47: Josh Toy (Can't help it but the guy is too talented and such a perfect fit for our back half as that elite kicking defender that I just can't not select him regardless of what other clubs think. Gold Coast offered him a year contract and all along said that he would be fine to continue playing but he moved back to Victoria by choice, so without knowing exactly how bad his heart issues are I'd back him in on a rookie contract and give him that year to show what he can do)
49: Ben Hudson (As described before but very much a necessary player to have not only as a coach but on our list. Witts and Grundy both are yet to debut so having a proven performer who even last year was still a productive player at AFL level I'm also very happy to take him)
*Note: Yagmoor unless the salary cap absolutely meant we had no other options I would not have redrafted although obvious this was the clubs plan. I just have my doubts he can improve enough to ever be best 22 relevant and salary cap permitting would have looked explored my alternatives first.
Liam Jurrah I also would have taken but having expressed that he wants to stay in SA he was never a possible selection.
Had I know Garlett would be available in the rookie draft I would have reserved him for our final rookie selection knowing he would slide through.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hindsight (time will tell and to be edited in some years down the track):
18: Brodie Grundy - Best young ruckman in the game.
19: (Lachie Hunter F/S bid) - assuming bid matched: Tim Membrey - Hunter has broken out into one of the more productive midfielders in the game. Assuming matched bid Membrey is a great choice 2016 performance close to goal.
20: Dane Rampe - Good piece down back.
38: Zac Williams - Near All Australian standard in 2016 with footskills and pace a highlight.
--rookie draft--
13: Tom Langdon (drafted 2013) - Drafted by Collingwood one year later and has proven a strong choice.
27: Rory Lobb (late starter drafted 2014) - Probably not a fair player to list here as only started playing WAFL in 2013, but with ability both forward and through the ruck deserves a place here.
35: Marcus Adams (drafted 2015) - Athletic, strong and excellent intercept mark who can rebound. Very good key defence option and for mine better than Jack Frost.
47: Ben Brown (drafted 2013) - Key forward who was overlooked several times. Tall, effective and a deadeye in front of goal.
49: Charlie Cameron (drafted 2013) - Exceptionally quick, high level pressure player, excellent at ground level and has some goalsense.
For those who oppose my listing of Lobb (as he wasn't playing AFL at that stage), Jake Lloyd can move to the first rookie selection and all others can be moved down a position.
 

Saintly Viewed

Premium Platinum
Aug 10, 2015
47,337
38,986
AFL Club
Collingwood
Knightmare love the stuff you do.
Very appreciated.
Fingers crossed this year becomes the bumper mother load.
Very very very bullish on our first two picks particularly.
Happy to be patient with Tyler because one thing is certain, he'll leave nothing on the table not to get the best out of himself.
 

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2010
16,950
15,277
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
From my limited knowledge I personally believe we took best available at both picks 6 and 38.

I actually surmise we have left the draft with two 1st round selections if based on how Hine rated the prospects and I feel the same sense of optimism that I had when we drafted both Sidebottom and Beams.

Time of course will only tell on all players selected tonight.

If a bid hadn't of come for Brown and pick 56 remained a live selection we opted to use then Grian Miers looks to be one of the best credentialed players left that were subsequently taken.

I'm comfortable though that we took Brown as his development has been limited to date but he's shown enough that another club beside ourselves rated him enough to place a bid.

At our final opportunity that we chose to pass on only Garner is a name I recognize from draft discussions when it comes to junior talent.

Barry the very next taken was linked to us at times as a recycled option. I'm comfortable passing on both.

Of what's left come the rookie draft I like the sound of this Butts you have spoke of as someone who has scope for development in a key position, Keitel another who has performed admirably by all reports at WAFL level these past two seasons. Brody Mihocek has been mentioned in passing. Given McCarthy, Schade and Keeffe were all delisted you'd think we'd be looking for some adequate cover for our spine in the VFL at least even if they don't end up making the grade.

P.S-Any idea the reasoning behind the McCarthy delisting?

Was the foot injury career ending, did McCarthy struggle with the rehab side of things or was it that the club simply decided he wasn't good enough?

Given he was our first selection last season and with the lack of depth in his area I was surprised we didn't give him another season tbh.
With regard to McCarthy. The important thing with key position players is having players who project as long term best 22 players. McCarthy didn't project to be that, and we only needed the one year to figure that out. Key position posts are all about maximum quality and McCarthy is a long term project who wasn't likely to develop into that best 22 player.

Based on his traits, he seems like someone who assuming he manages to put on plenty of muscle (which may or may not be a big IF, depending on his genetics), he could grow into the mold of someone like Fyfe. Does that seem accurate?

Regarding people going on about kicking, obviously everyone knows our efficiency is sub-par, but I don't see the top 10 picks as the area to address that. The good kicks and outside types can be found later in the draft, and we've attempted to do so with Murphy.
I don't see Stephenson becoming Fyfe. His hands aren't as reliable overhead firstly. Stephenson does have contested ball winning capabilities, but I expect he'll be more outside than inside, with his run his greatest asset. He'll start his career playing off half-forward and in time should make a wing his own.

Trust Knightmare you don't mind this, but I've copied pasted your link with the 2012 draft.
Is it 5 years already.

Interesting time frame and too see how things shape with five years of hind Sight.

***********************************************

Just a little bit of fun and something to bring down the track to see who got things right.
Will also throw some rookie selections in when the rookie draft and preseason draft comes around.


Hinesight: (Where Derek Hine and Collingwood have selected players in this years draft)
18: Brodie Grundy (Comments under Knightsight)
19: Ben Kennedy (Will be a good selection and while I rated others more highly I see him as someone who almost certainly will play games in season one and could be a really nice rotation fwd/mid who perhaps can take Dayne Beams' old post as that weapon forward flanker long term. Still a good selection)
20: Tim Broomhead (Probably a few I would have selected before him but a player with some ability. Was always going to go top 30 but really interesting that we took him and made it a SA trio first round to add to our very small South Australian group which consisted before tonight of only Didak. Really nice user of the footy and we'll probably look at him as that potential next egneration Didak replacement as that playmaking forward and high half forward)
38: Jackson Ramsay (A surprise selection, I'm probably one of the few on bigfooty who rated him inside their top 40. Like with Broomhead there are others I rated more highly but Ramsay is not a terrible get here and with his pace off a back flank or wing could be someone who with some luck finds a role. Impressive pre-injury form this year in the WA colts)
--
13: Kyle Martin (A good get and really pleasing Essendon overlooked him! The pick of our rookies and one I had very high on my shortlist. Will give our VFL midfield a big boost and is a strong chance to get promoted. For mine the better of the state league midfielders to get selected this year and can step into the senior team if needed)
27: Sam Dwyer (Another really good get and very pleased that we added him. Can play if required and like Martin gives our VFL side a big boost through the midfield. Well in that mix for promotion with his talent. Excellent user of the footy by foot and finds those forwards like few others adding much needed skill to a midfield probably needing some better ball users by foot)
35: Adam Oxley (Back flanker who is a good height and can play a variety of sizes. Despite his age possibly not as advanced as you'd think but he'll certainly add some much needed rebound to the back half at VFL level. I liked his play for QLD in the u18s but there were some other backmen I liked more and feel can have a more immediate impact)
41: Jack Frost (Athletic key defender. Has talent and stiff not to get rookied in years past but not sure he is a need with so many quality key defence options and more than enough key defence depth)
47: Ben Hudson (Strong option as cover for Jolly if required come finals time but a mentor to Witts and Grundy first until required)
49: Peter Yagmoor (A good move delisting him and moving him to the rookie list. Was struggling with the pace of VFL football so probably wasn't going to be much use to us in the immediate on the senior list so better off giving the other rookies that greater opportunity to receive promotion and senior opportunities)


Knightsight (where I would select each player given who was available at each point):
18: Brodie Grundy (Best ruckman in the draft and solves our immediate and long term ruck problems. A no brainer and one clubs will in future seasons rue passing on. Clear top 5 talent this year and the bargain of the draft at this point)
19: Tom Clurey (For mine the best key defender in the draft. Has a really complete game with elite endurance, elite skillset, as well as a solid 1v1 game. Not a need but rated him a top 10 selection)
20: Nathan Hrovat (I consider him a touch better than Kennedy despite not having the same attractive weapons but Hrovat would have been my selection instead as that small. Best performed player in all of the u18s and dominated in all levels of play from APS, TAC and U18 national level. Immediate player and has an elite inside game and has outperformed all competition consistently and I see big success ahead of him at the next level. I would have happily taken him with any selection after 10 and another I see real value in at this point)
38: Dayle Garlett (Predraft there was strong word that Garlett would be looked at by West Coast at 45 and in understanding that he would likely be available at this selection he would have been my selection here. Additionally I rated Garlett below Clurey and Hrovat anyway after understanding in more detail his off-field issues. Top 5 talent if you take away his issues and is one I'd trust the club with a strong culture to turn around with plenty of players on other AFL teams worse)
-- (note having taken Garlett already I can't take him again in the rookie draft)
13: Jason Pongracic (A surprise to get him here but very pleasing he got through as the highest player remaining on my list not named Garlett. Ultimately overlooked completely having struggled this season with injury and being restricted to mostly playing as a forward. Strong chance to get drafted next year if he comes back and persists and one of those guys where with a full preseason he has the ability to be something. Footskills damaging, has nice marking ability and that strong body and ability to win his own ball. Lacking a yard of pace but as that next generation inside midfielder is what I'd be looking for with those other mids more finesse types. Hard call overlooking Kyle Martin as I rate him very highly, Martin will have the more immediate impact being that proven VFL performer this season but with Ball and Swan still with more years to play and another mature midfielder in mind later and no guarantees Pongracic would be available at that next selection I would have taken him here)
27: Tom Langdon (Langdon I rate highly and feel is another who was exceptionally stiff not to be drafted. Langdon really exploded in the second half of the season coming from obscurity and become one of the best players on his team. Langdon is a tall back flanker who is essentially much the same thing as Oxley though I rate him slightly higher and see more upside in his game. Langdon also has nice footskills and a solid shutdown game but also can step into the midfield and win his own footy and clear the ball from congestion which he demonstrated during the TAC finals series which really impressed me. Another guy where if he keeps working at it and improves his game as he did this year and very much find himself on a list and not just win a list position but also find a role on a team)
35: Sam Heavyside (Small midfielder and very light in stature but has a rare midfield game. In the end went undrafted because he broke his foot and missed a large portion of the season but he showed more than enough to suggest he should be drafted. What makes him stand out is despite his relative lack of height and light body he doesn't get knocked off the ball and has that rare natural inside ability and is a dominant clearance player. In mind my his game very much can translate at the next level because it's not predicated on size but rather rare inside ability. He's another where I really hope he comes back and gives it another shot because he is very much capable of making it onto an AFL list and succeeding in an AFL environment)
41: Ben Duscher (With Kyle Martin most likely not available at this stage, I can only speculate anyway I'm more than happy to take Ben Dushcer here who I rated a fraction more highly anyway and with Pongracic as a strong bodied midfielder earlier and Heavyside as another natural inside type I though I'd go with the best state league midfielder who has the ability to play either inside or outside to a high level but also has excellent footskills. Duscher went undrafted having struggled with injury but I'm very confident he has the ability to make the transition and if he can put together a full year next year I don't see why he can't get onto an AFL list being that class above)
47: Josh Toy (Can't help it but the guy is too talented and such a perfect fit for our back half as that elite kicking defender that I just can't not select him regardless of what other clubs think. Gold Coast offered him a year contract and all along said that he would be fine to continue playing but he moved back to Victoria by choice, so without knowing exactly how bad his heart issues are I'd back him in on a rookie contract and give him that year to show what he can do)
49: Ben Hudson (As described before but very much a necessary player to have not only as a coach but on our list. Witts and Grundy both are yet to debut so having a proven performer who even last year was still a productive player at AFL level I'm also very happy to take him)
*Note: Yagmoor unless the salary cap absolutely meant we had no other options I would not have redrafted although obvious this was the clubs plan. I just have my doubts he can improve enough to ever be best 22 relevant and salary cap permitting would have looked explored my alternatives first.
Liam Jurrah I also would have taken but having expressed that he wants to stay in SA he was never a possible selection.
Had I know Garlett would be available in the rookie draft I would have reserved him for our final rookie selection knowing he would slide through.
A lot of misses from both myself and Collingwood in 2012. Don't think either myself or the club have bragging rights for 2012.

Brodie Grundy was the great hit from us both.

Tom Langdon a year earlier was my other great hit and may from a longer term perspective gives my choices the edge.

Otherwise Clurey v Broomhead is fairly even, with neither established, clear best 22 players but still on AFL lists. Nathan Hrovat still being in the system v Ben Kennedy gives me the slight edge on the smalls. Pies obviously did less badly with Ramsay by contrast to Garlett who didn't even make it through his first season with Hawthorn when drafted the following year.

Other than Langdon from the rookies, Collingwood's rookie choices also had the relatively greater success and were the more solid, though none of mine received a chance/another chance at AFL level in the case of Toy so there is that element of the unknown. Adam Oxley and Jack Frost still being in the AFL is still reasonable enough five years on and Sam Dwyer was also ok enough for a short time also.

As an outcome overall. I'll take this outcome against the Pies recruiting team.

Always a fun exercise to test yourself against the best.
 

Saintly Viewed

Premium Platinum
Aug 10, 2015
47,337
38,986
AFL Club
Collingwood
A lot of misses from both myself and Collingwood in 2012. Don't think either myself or the club have bragging rights for 2012.

Brodie Grundy was the great hit from us both.

Tom Langdon a year earlier was my other great hit and may from a longer term perspective gives my choices the edge.

Otherwise Clurey v Broomhead is fairly even, with neither established, clear best 22 players but still on AFL lists. Nathan Hrovat still being in the system v Ben Kennedy gives me the slight edge on the smalls. Pies obviously did less badly with Ramsay by contrast to Garlett who didn't even make it through his first season with Hawthorn when drafted the following year.

Other than Langdon from the rookies, Collingwood's rookie choices also had the relatively greater success and were the more solid, though none of mine received a chance/another chance at AFL level in the case of Toy so there is that element of the unknown. Adam Oxley and Jack Frost still being in the AFL is still reasonable enough five years on and Sam Dwyer was also ok enough for a short time also.

As an outcome overall. I'll take this outcome against the Pies recruiting team.

Always a fun exercise to test yourself against the best.
Getting Grundy means overall it's a big win.
He's a gem.
Possible AA type.
Long term we have a real special player.
 

Knightmare

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2010
16,950
15,277
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
Getting Grundy means overall it's a big win.
He's a gem.
Possible AA type.
Long term we have a real special player.
Absolutely. Grundy was the bargain of the draft.

My comment was more with relation to the clubs other picks. Ideally more than one long term player of value would have been added from the draft.
 

Darkyprotector

Premiership Player
Apr 10, 2017
3,906
1,823
AFL Club
Collingwood
So why did we get another WHE? But one that’s not a good kick.

The whole need for pace is obvious but if you hit targets you don’t need to be as quick. I can think of times when we look painfully slow and sloppy. Then 2wks later look like the quickest team in the league.

Decision making and kicking accuracy is more important than pure speed. No better example of that is Ben Sinclair, terrible decision maker and ordinary kick, but could run fast so kept getting games.

Rated best player in the draft by the grand pooh ah shifter Sheehan
Unbelievable get , could be the link man going forward think that's the plan
Can see a forward structure
Stephenson Reid wills ( defensive forward)
Sidey cox Elliot
Looking great
Allows Moore to swing with Reid as well
Great drafting
And from a family of pies
 

The Plowking

Club Legend
Feb 21, 2016
1,869
2,370
AFL Club
Collingwood
Rated best player in the draft by the grand pooh ah shifter Sheehan
Unbelievable get , could be the link man going forward think that's the plan
Can see a forward structure
Stephenson Reid wills ( defensive forward)
Sidey cox Elliot
Looking great
Allows Moore to swing with Reid as well
Great drafting
And from a family of pies
No, no, no.
Just look at the negatives man!
 

DaVe86

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 6, 2004
9,874
9,815
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
collingwood
I always love this thread

Butts is still available isnt he? If so i hope we take him as a rookie.

If we do that, id be really happy. I am happy with our draft but definitely think we need to add at least 2 KPPs through the rookie or PSD. Id look at Crameri and Collins as well
 

Top Bottom