List Mgmt. List Management 2024-25

[cosmicwinduptoy]

Hinkley must' be gone

Dixon out
Boak out
Clurey out
McKenzie out.
MacN Cheese

Trade
Wines
Burton
Finlayson
DBJ
I would even see if any W.A wants Marshall

The obvious changes we can all see. I'd give Finlayson and Marshall a shot under a new coach, but everything else spot on.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Just looking at the 2019 draft.

25 Mead

26 Will Day

We could have screwed Sydney right over but really there's only a couple of players at the back end of that draft you'd get excited about.
He's around the mark if you redo that draft.

2020 draft

Lockie at 16

Gulden at 32 the bargain

The back end of that draft falls right away Maurice Rioli at 51 maybe.

Redo that draft and it's not far off either.

Gulden was an Academy pick IIRC.

I thought we did really well with Lachie Jones and Lord in that draft.

 

[Long live PAFC]

You need minimum three changes per season.

As we can see, we are lacking depth.

If one of Alir, BZT or Ratugolea go down - who comes in?

If we lose a starting midfielder- Rozee, Butters, JHF, Drew, Wines - who comes in?

And small forward? And wings? And half back?

Point is, we lack depth across the board. Our ready made depth players are Narkle, Lord, Sweet, McKenzie, Evans, Williams.

Sinn, Jackson, McCallum - can’t stay on the park.

Kyle Marshall could be a game changer if he comes on and provides us with that depth KPP.

Reality is, Boak and McKenzie may get retained purely because they provide cheapish, ready to go depth in areas we don’t have much.

Narkle, Clurey, Evans - are replaceable. Decisions will have to be made on Sinn, Jackson, McCallum, Marshall, Williams and Scully - have they shown enough, is it worth persisting with them long term or should we find others?

The other factor is we only have a pick in the thirties on draft night. So we aren’t changing our first 22 with that. Nor are we likely to get immediate depth or a 100+ gamer - that’s just the odds and lotto of the draft.

So say we trade our future first and get a quality player in. And maybe get a free agent or two, we still have other players I would remove prior to Boak or McKenzie.

If north did come for Boak, as Damien Barrett suggests they should, what would he be worth and would we be happy with that?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Because he's such a likeable guy. He stood by the club when it would have been very easy to walk to Geelong.

It would be awesome to see him get to 400 games and a flag. Few players deserve that more than Boak.

Of course that would be great

But it’s afl, you need to get selected on merit.

I’m not sure he’s an automatic selection anymore, much less next year

 

[JUSTWORK]

Of course that would be great

But it’s afl, you need to get selected on merit.

I’m not sure he’s an automatic selection anymore, much less next year

Of course you need to get selected on Merit. I don't necessarily think is in an automatic selection, certainly not next year but the reality is there wasn't anyone in the SANFL on Thursday more deserving of AFL selection than Boak.

 

[Sewer de Lance]

People are kidding themselves if they think Boak will go on next year. He’s struggling to keep up now, let alone in 12 months time.

 

[Rash]

how good was will hayward

9

Will Hayward

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.6

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

9.0

2star

K

4.3

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.4

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.4

5star

today, the perfect player port need. he is good below his knees, wins hard balls in the fwd line, great set shot, good goal sense and great mark above his head. they say we are targeting him, if we can get him that would make our fwd line so much better

 

[Long live PAFC]

Perryman and Hayward were both solid.

Splash the cash and get them both.

 

[Brian McGee]

We are unfortunately at the point where we need to target free agents due to the lack of trade collateral that we have. Even if they aren’t the perfect fit for our needs.

 

[TeeKray]

how good was will hayward today, the perfect player port need. he is good below his knees, wins hard balls in the fwd line, great set shot, good goal sense and great mark above his head. they say we are targeting him, if we can get him that would make our fwd line so much better

We will fix that great set shot thing but apart from that agree.

 

[davesnothere]

Harley Reid is obviously getting ridiculous offers put in front of him at present.

We should make sure ours is the most ridiculous.

 

[n4nirvana]

Stengle
Perryman
Hayward

maybe another 3 mid tier free agents for depth as we have no currency for trading for big fish

 

[1954]

We will fix that great set shot thing but apart from that agree.

Agreed, and those who saw Chadbro when he played as a key forward should recall he wasn't a reliable set shot himself.

You would hope someone who may have had a flawed technique themselves wouldn't be coaching goal kicking at the highest level, but trying to put square pegs in round holes is how unfortunately what is left of our club rolls!

 

[Nemisis]

Yep, we find ourselves with a pretty bare cupboard in terms of player depth. We are good at shooting fish in a barrel (Rozee and Butters) but when was the last late pick that actually proved to be a 'steal'? Perhaps Lord but he is still to prove himself consistently.

We need to grab Haywood and Perryman and start building strength in the first 25 players. And make tough decisions on players that will never make it no matter how much we paid for them.

 

[philthy05]

Yep, we find ourselves with a pretty bare cupboard in terms of player depth. We are good at shooting fish in a barrel (Rozee and Butters) but when was the last late pick that actually proved to be a 'steal'?

Farrell
Dbj
Lord
Drew
Houston

Jackson Lorenz and Scully are showing some good signs too.

We’ve done alright with late picks, we just haven’t had enough of them.


We’ve traded out too many mid range picks and held onto list cloggers for too long.

 

[Windy Cindy]

Perryman and Hayward were both solid.

Splash the cash and get them both.

Hayward is what we need in our forward line a real pro, who’s tough and can kick goals..can lock down and get a kick.

Won’t get him but he’d be perfect for us..

 

[Long live PAFC]

Farrell
Dbj
Lord
Drew
Houston

Jackson Lorenz and Scully are showing some good signs too.

We’ve done alright with late picks, we just haven’t had enough of them.


We’ve traded out too many mid range picks and held onto list cloggers for too long.

I think the real difference between us and Collingwood, Geelong, Sydney, GWS, Brisbane, Bulldogs, Gold Coast - is the father son and academy influence. Mead, Burgoyne and Jones look like they could all become solid, average contributors, not stars.

Moore and the two Daicos brothers are stars. Andrews, two Ashcrofts, Coleman and Fletcher are all guns + Hipwood is ok. Gold Coast and GWS - enough said. Sydney - Gulden, Campbell, Heeney, Mills and Cleary. Etc etc. most of these clubs paid under whereas Port paid close to fair price.

So those clubs have been able to take a first round selections and then get multiple first round selections in the form of father sons/academy picks. Has meant their occasional late picks aren’t needed to come off like ours are and usually just play a simple role, like McCreery or Close, as opposed to ours which are the key distributors off half back or wing.

 

[Powerade 08]

There's no shame in being at the bottom of the list of players who have played 350 games. Literally all of them will be Hall of Famers.

Trevor Boat in the hall of fame lmao.

If longevity gets you in then why not Kent Hinkley as well

 

[TeeKray]

Trevor Boat in the hall of fame lmao.

If longevity gets you in then why not Kent Hinkley as well

Multiple AA, multiple B&F, club captain, 350 games. He's a Hall of Famer, whether this board likes it or not.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Multiple AA, multiple B&F, club captain, 350 games. He's a Hall of Famer, whether this board likes it or not.

I had a take a look who is in there and it is more of a task to say who isn't in there.

He'll give it a fair shake.

There were some surprising names in there who were very good but not great.

He just doesn't have the winning a flag on the CV but a few in there don't have that. I mean Lenny Hayes is in the Hall of Fame. Very good player but the Hall of Fame.

 

[Buget]

I think the real difference between us and Collingwood, Geelong, Sydney, GWS, Brisbane, Bulldogs, Gold Coast - is the father son and academy influence. Mead, Burgoyne and Jones look like they could all become solid, average contributors, not stars.

Moore and the two Daicos brothers are stars. Andrews, two Ashcrofts, Coleman and Fletcher are all guns + Hipwood is ok. Gold Coast and GWS - enough said. Sydney - Gulden, Campbell, Heeney, Mills and Cleary. Etc etc. most of these clubs paid under whereas Port paid close to fair price.

So those clubs have been able to take a first round selections and then get multiple first round selections in the form of father sons/academy picks. Has meant their occasional late picks aren’t needed to come off like ours are and usually just play a simple role, like McCreery or Close, as opposed to ours which are the key distributors off half back or wing.

100% agree with you.

There is a reason the AFL badly needs to look at the F/S and academy bidding processes and even up the playing field

 

[Chewy316]

Multiple AA, multiple B&F, club captain, 350 games. He's a Hall of Famer, whether this board likes it or not.

Someone once told me their measuring stick for the Hall of Fame was whether or not they would include a particular player when telling the story of Australian Rules Football (in a positive light).

Regardless of what we think of Boak as a player now, his longevity in combination with some pretty strong career accolades in conjunction with the whole refusing to move to Geelong, being part of this Club's revitalisation in the mid 2010s etc, it makes him a worthy candidate for the HOF for sure.

Had he got a flag it wouldn't be in doubt.

 

[HugeJohnson]

Wouldn't be against trading Wines out if someone offered a 2nd rounder. Maybe we'd have to throw in some steak knives.

Seems crazy to say that about someone who won the Brownlow only a few years ago

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

LIST MANAGEMENT MAY 2024

I will make my List Management decisions based on the premiership window which opened last year which is about 7 years after drafting your best players which will be the 2018 draft year of Rozee and Butters.

I will also look to channel the Bob Quinn in me, that is, the Port of old and be a bit ruthless with my ideas on decision making.

And I'll just explain the premiership window a bit. The way a list goes from go to whoa is you draft talented players and they develop. This takes roughly 7 years. Once your talent is maturing, you need to plug in the holes of your list and starting 23. You have a run at the flag. You continually try to to plug up any gaps as you make your premiership run.

Around that 7 year mark which is where we are at. You want to be filling in gaps and if you are lucky, bring in players in the same age window. Also, you will want to fast track young players and move on older players who won't be a part of your run.

You are wanting to concentrate talent into the premiership window. For example, lets say in the 2000s, you have 3 star players and in the 2010s, you have 3 star players as well. It would be better to have 6 star players in the 2000s and 0 in the 2010s because you want more talent when it matters. The dynasties of the Brisbane Lions on the early 2000s, the Geelong Cats of the late 2000s, the Hawthorn Hawks in 2010s and recently the Richmond Tigers [less so] all had a huge concentration of talent and... great coaching.

In regards to age to, some players are older or younger than their actual age, if that makes sense. For example, Dixon and Marshall are a bit older than their age while Aliir plays younger.

Also with the wants and needs, they can come from the draft, trading but also from within. You never know who will take a big leap in their game and take the bull by the horns.

And lasty, I want to say that these are only guidelines and some rules are meant to be broken.

MIDFIELD

Ollie Wines 29

Willem Drew 25
Connor Rozee 24
Zak Butters 23
Jackson Mead 22

Jason Horne-Francis 20
Hugh Jackson 20

The centre bounce attendance in modern footy has 5 sometimes 6 players rotating in there. The midfield is our main strength with three elite and young midfielders in Rozee, Butters and Horne-Francis and a borderline elite midfielder in Drew. All can impact the game in a strong way. We are good for many years.

Wines doesn't quite fit with them in terms of skills and window but is playing well enough but with low impact but is a pretty good 5th wheel if he feeds from the inside and doesn't have to make too many decisions especially by foot. The other issue is that Wines is inflexible and can only play inside midfielder which makes the midfield inflexible and the 23 a bit that way as well.

Mead is getting games to see what he can do. He is a very good decision maker and rarely makes a bad decision.
Hugh Jackson is touted by some on here on SANFL form and was supposedly close to a call up last year. He would give us a give us a different look in the midfield. I've always liked his potential.

WANTS - We could upgrade our 5th midfielder.
NEEDS - Nothing really.
WOULDN'T MIND - An elite midfielder with a good inside game

RUCKS

Ivan Soldo 28
Jordon Sweet 26

Dante Visentini 21

The two rucks still have to prove themselves but are doing quite well so far. They still need time to connect with the midfield.

Soldo is a bit on the older side of the window but rucks are a bit different. I think he came into AFL at an older age so he doesn't have quite the miles on the tyres. Bergman has played about the same games as him.
Sweet is a good number 2 and we will be seeing what he has to offer.

We have Visentini as the developing ruck.

WANTS - Another young ruck just in case Dante fizzles out.
NEEDS - Nothing
WOULDN'T MIND - An elite ruck like Kieran Briggs would be nice.

WINGS

Travis Boak 35

Quinton Narkle 26
Miles Bergman 22

Jase Burgyone 20
Will Lorenz 19

Even though it is early, I am pretty happy with Bergman and Burgoyne as our two young wingman. Both are in the premiership window.

Nowadays, Boak plays more from the bench and clearly is not in the premiership window. I get the feeling that Narkle will struggle to get games but he is good enough backup. Lorenz is a young guy developing his game.

The other thing is that Bergman and Burgoyne both have midfield potential. I think Bergman would make a great big bodied midfielder and Burgoyne is starting to show a hunger in the contest as well. Also Bergman has already shown how great he is down back playing on tall forwards. So this has to be put into consideration.

WANTS - Another developing wingman
NEEDS - None
WOULDN'T MIND - The Second Coming of Tregenza.

TALL FORWARDS

Charlie Dixon 33
Jeremy Finlayson 28

Todd Marshall 25
Mitch Georgiades 22
Ollie Lord 22
Tom Scully 19

This is a tough one because our gameplan is based around kicking to Dixon and I think if another coach came in, they would restructure the forward line to the strengths of all of the forwards. I just want to add that when Dixon has not played, the forward line has functioned well.

Dixon is still good enough but not in the premiership window.

Finlayson is getting on but is our hybrid forward, ruck. He also has the capacity to play tall down back and be that swiss army knife.

Marshall and Georgiades are very good players being used poorly at the moment by Hinkley. Marshall would benefit with a move up the ground. Georgiades is OK with what he is doing. He's a very good contested mark but has a great athletic profile that is being wasted.

Lord has started to get games and when played, straightens us up and brings easy goals to our game. In the preseason, he was also second rucking so at the moment, will probably be gunning for Finlayson's forward, 2nd ruck role.

Scully seems to be that leading forward with a beautiful kick that needs to build muscle and hit Fasta Pasta on Port Road if it is still there.

The hybrid forward, 2nd ruck is pretty important in modern footy and Lord stands a good chance of doing well in that role.

WANTS - Another developing forward would be nice but not essential
NEEDS - Nothing
WOULD REALLY LIKE FOR CHRISTMAS - An out and out Number 1 Key Position Forward

TALL DEFENDERS

Trent McKenzie 32
Tom Clurey 30
Aliir Aliir 29

Esava Ratugolea 25
Brandon Zerk-Thatcher 25

Kyle Marshall 20
Tom McCallum 19
Xavier Walsh 18

Last year, we struggled with tall defenders but we plugged up the holes. We are now doing pretty well with the tall defenders. Aliir, Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher are developing well together in the backline. They are not big names but are getting the job done. We have rarely been beaten in the air this year. Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher are in the window. Aliir is a touch old but I think he still has a fair bit of tread on the tyres.

McKenzie and Clurey are now backups.

We have three developing defenders. McCallum was a 2nd rounder so you always hope that he will come good on his potential. The other two have good qualities as well.

It would be great to see one of these guys break out in the SANFL and push for selection.

Walsh also could be played up forward and seems to be a fan favourite already.

WANTS - Nothing
NEEDS - Nothing
WOULDN'T MIND - A developing elite tall defender

MEDIUM FORWARDS

Wille Rioli 28
Darcy Byrne-Jones 28
Sam Powell-Pepper 26

Jed McEntee 23
Francis Evans 22

Lachie Charleson 19
Thomas Anastasopoulos 18

We have three of our oldish guys in Rioli, Powell-Pepper and Byrne-Jones playing well. Rioli is our genuine magic goal kicking forward. I would consider Rioli to be a young 28. Powell-Pepper as the high forward who can run all day. Byrne-Jones as the do it all third medium forward who I think is quietly having a very good year.

McEntee and Evans are in the right age window but I think they could be easily upgraded. They just seem to be poking their heads into the 23 on occasion now.

We have two young and talented rookies in Anastasopoulos and Charleson who are developing nicely.

I am a big fan of Anastasopoulos and would fast track him as the other small forward. He is fast, has good goal sense and kicks goals. He could also play wing.
Charleson has a bit of magic to him and is another Robbie Gray selection which is almost like the Royal Seal ans plays as a medium forward but also seems to be groomed as an inside midfielder.

WANTS - Nothing
NEEDS - Another medium goal kicking goal sneak forward.
WOULDN'T MIND - Kosi Pickett

MEDIUM DEFENDERS

Ryan Burton 27
Dan Houston 26
Kane Farrell 25

Dylan Williams 22
Lachie Jones 22
Josh Sinn 21

All of the medium defenders are in the premiership window. We have four guys in Houston, Burton, Farrell and Williams with a similar skill set.

Houston is our best player outside of the midfield and is a great running defender and a fantastic kick.
Burton is a fantastic kick but very, very loose in defence.
Farrell is a fantastic kick and is tighter on defence and can easily play the Burton role. Last week against the Saints, he was number one is scoring involvements which is usually the domain of Rozee.
Williams is a fantastic kick and holds his own one on one.

Lachie Jones is a point of difference with superior athleticism and speed. He is still learning the game back there but he should pay handsome dividends.

Sinn is the wildcard who could also play wing and he could also play the defensive forward role easily as well. He is lightning fast, often injured and hasn't set the SANFL on fire but that is not a requisite to get games in the AFL. He has some real potential and would give us some real pace and excitement. He is a guy who needs to be coached.

WANTS - An athletic defensive minded defender with speed
NEEDS - Nothing
WOULDN'T MIND - Sinn to tear it up

POSSIBLE UPCOMING RETIREES AND DELISTINGS

Travis Boak - old, doing enough, would prefer getting games into a young player
Charlie Dixon - old, playing well enough, would prefer getting games into a young player
Tom Clurey - he's been passed and is a backup
Trent McKenzie - he's been passed and is a backup

Jed McEntee - lack of impact in games
Francis Evans - lack of impact in games
Quinton Narkle - a backup but a bit of a swiss army knife player

OTHER QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS

Josh Sinn - lots of potential but injured. Hopefully he comes good because he would add another dimension to the backline and team. Possible trade bait back to Melbourne.
Ryan Burton - his loose defending may see others pass him
Oliver Wines - our 5th best midfielder. Good but not great. Inflexible inside midfield. Can another midfielder or two pass him? Possible trade bait to Melbourne club? Highly unlikely but a ruthless possibility.

POSSIBLE PREMIERSHIP WINDOW SQUAD

Zerk-Thatcher, Ratugolea, AAA
Houston, Aliir, Jones
Bergman, Horne-Francis, Burgoyne
Byrne-Jones, Marshall, Powell-Pepper
Rioli, Georgiades, BBB

Drew, Wines, Finlayson, CCC

Ideally, the AAA spot would be an athletic medium defender with good defensive skills and a nice kick. At the moment, we have Farrell, Williams, Burton and Sinn. Farrell, Williams and even Sinn could easily be in that spot and a lot of people would have some of those names in there.

Ideally, the BBB spot would be a medium forward who kicks goals. At the moment, we have McEntee, Evans, Anastasopoulos and, Charleson. Anastasopoulos could easily be in that spot.

The spot of CCC is determined by the best player available but within the needs of the team.

SOON TO BE END OF CONTRACT PLAYERS OF INTEREST

2024 - Dixon, Evans, Kyle Marshall, Boak, McKenzie, Narkle
2025 - McEntee, Sinn, Burton, Clurey
2026 - Wines, Byrne-Jones

2024 DRAFT PICK SELECTIONS

34, 52, 69 et al

It would be nice to use 34 of a general prospect and then clean up the Father, Sons and NGA.

2024 FATHER SONS AND NGA

This has been taken from the Father, Son thread and Port2Power. If Rome is better than Jase, we have three very good prospects coming in on the cheap. Just what we need this year.

1. Louie Montgomery
2. Benny Barrett
3. Rome Burgoyne
4. Ky Burgoyne
5. Oliver Francou

CONCLUSION

The list is good enough to win a premiership and I'm of the opinion that a good coach who is positive and instills belief into the players could start a dynasty.

We don't need too much and we have a few wants about the place but I feel a new coach would cut a lot of fat off the list and off the 23 and straighten us up.

Sack Hinkley.

There's a line between optimism and delusion and you have crossed it as the players are mentally weak and that's one of the reasons they have lost so many finals and big games over the last 5 years.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

There's no shame in being at the bottom of the list of players who have played 350 games. Literally all of them will be Hall of Famers.

Boak will make the HoF one day because of the C.S.I.R.A criteria, but he wont get in as quick as the other 350 gamers I listed, have or will. Blakey wont, or if he does it might be 50 years after he finished up.

Character, Sportsmanship, Integrity, Record and Ability.