List Mgmt. Losing our young guns, myth or reality?

[M Malice]

IMO this narrative that we are leaking young guns post the go home 5 debacle is a media generated perception. This is what has happened since the GH5 re players leaving not including free agency/delisting-

2014 trade outs-
Joel Patfull- a mutual decision for a great club stalwart, win win.
Jack Crisp- involved in Beams deal, Crisp a solid player but a win for us.
2014 trade ins-
Allen Christensen- used the pick we got for Patfull (21) to acquire Allen, great result IMO for the future of or club.
Dayne Beams- great result, is an elite player of the competition.
2015 trade outs-
Jack Redden- time for him to move on, was going stale, win for us acquiring pick 17.
James Aish- in hindsight looks like no great loss.
2015 trade ins-
Tom Bell, Josh Walker, Jarrad Jansen, Ryan Bastinac- 3 B grade type players at best.
2016 trade outs-
Pearce Hanley- was part of a problem at the club, said he was sick of losing.
2016 trade ins-
Jack Frost- jury out, we needed a relatively experienced KPD with Justin Clarke unfortunately retiring.

Grand total of 5 players traded out ie. Pearce Hanley, Jack Redden, James Aish, Jack Crisp and Joel Patfull. 2 what some would call young guns in Aish and Crisp, hardly a flood of young players wanting out, Crisp was willing to stay but was needed to get the Beams deal done. Aish the only young player who was desperate to get out. IMO a terrific effort retention wise since the GH5 especially considering our turmoil re coaching, facilities and our terrible form on the field.

young guns drafted in, drafts 2012-16 ie. post the year the GH5 were drafted in, i'll extend it out to the first 2 rounds of the draft-
Sam Mayes, Marco Paparone, Michael Close, James Aish, Darcy Gardner, Daniel McStay, Lewis Taylor, Tom Cutler, Nick Robertson, Josh Schache, Eric Hipwood, Ben Keays, Rhys Matheison (3rd round gun), Hugh McCluggage, Jarrod Berry, Alex Witherden, Cedric Cox.

Only one young gun player (Aish) lost. While we need to remain vigilant and pro active with our retention strategies there is no need to over inflate the situation IMO.

 

[Forward We Go]

IMO this narrative that we are leaking young guns post the go home 5 debacle is a media generated perception. This is what has happened since the GH5 re players leaving not including free agency/delisting-

2014 trade outs-
Joel Patfull- a mutual decision for a great club stalwart, win win.
Jack Crisp- involved in Beams deal, Crisp a solid player but a win for us.
2014 trade ins-
Allen Christensen- used the pick we got for Patfull (21) to acquire Allen, great result IMO for the future of or club.
Dayne Beams- great result, is an elite player of the competition.
2015 trade outs-
Jack Redden- time for him to move on, was going stale, win for us acquiring pick 17.
James Aish- in hindsight looks like no great loss.
2015 trade ins-
Tom Bell, Josh Walker, Jarrad Jansen, Ryan Bastinac- 3 B grade type players at best.
2016 trade outs-
Pearce Hanley- was part of a problem at the club, said he was sick of losing.
2016 trade ins-
Jack Frost- jury out, we needed a relatively experienced KPD with Justin Clarke unfortunately retiring.

Grand total of 5 players traded out ie. Pearce Hanley, Jack Redden, James Aish, Jack Crisp and Joel Patfull. 2 what some would call young guns in Aish and Crisp, hardly a flood of young players wanting out, Crisp was willing to stay but was needed to get the Beams deal done. Aish the only young player who was desperate to get out. IMO a terrific effort retention wise since the GH5 especially considering our turmoil re coaching, facilities and our terrible form on the field.

young guns drafted in, drafts 2012-16 ie. post the year the GH5 were drafted in, i'll extend it out to the first 2 rounds of the draft-
Sam Mayes, Marco Paparone, Michael Close, James Aish, Darcy Gardner, Daniel McStay, Lewis Taylor, Tom Cutler, Nick Robertson, Josh Schache, Eric Hipwood, Ben Keays, Rhys Matheison (3rd round gun), Hugh McCluggage, Jarrod Berry, Alex Witherden, Cedric Cox.

Only one young gun player (Aish) lost. While we need to remain vigilant and pro active with our retention strategies there is no need to over inflate the situation IMO.

Agree Jason however cant help but feel a little insecure when we start to show some improvement and other clubs come head hunting. I do have a lot of faith in our football department to retain most of our players wherever possible more now than over the last 4-5 years however, the lure to go to a Melbourne club with big $ & into the AFL Heartland is definitely an advantage we don't have. (be it local QLD boys or interstate.)

 

[Haso]

I feel like the narrative still focuses on the 2013 losses rather than anything since then. Unfortunately because 5 is such an unusually high number, we need to demonstrate more than a couple of years of retaining the top picks to make up for that one year (and the few before it). Not helped at all by the subsequent loss of Aish (despite keeping all of his draft buddies from that year) and the fact that the Southern media tend to be 2-3 years behind any ground that the club makes up, simply because it has more important things to deal with, such as Andrew Walker's hat and what Terry Wallace thinks about some bullshit.

 

[Crawb]

We still haven't re-signed a first round pick from interstate though since GH5 though.

Re-signing a bunch of guys who can't really get a gig elsewhere hardly debunks the theory. Schache is going to be a big test for us.

 

[Dalions]

Reality!

 

[Haso]

We still haven't re-signed a first round pick from interstate though since GH5 though.

Re-signing a bunch of guys who can't really get a gig elsewhere hardly debunks the theory. Schache is going to be a big test for us.

What about Mayes?

 

[Jivlain]

What about Mayes?

Rich too.

 

[M Malice]

We still haven't re-signed a first round pick from interstate though since GH5 though.

Re-signing a bunch of guys who can't really get a gig elsewhere hardly debunks the theory. Schache is going to be a big test for us.

we can hardly re-sign first round draft picks (apart from Mayes) if we haven't got any. not unusual for a 1st round draft pick (Schache) to not be re-signed 1 round into his 2nd year, if he hasn't by around mid july i'll be concerned then. if he does want to go we will get very good trade value for him IMO. the guys from last years draft haven't even played a game yet so shouldn't even be on the i'm worried radar.

 

[Dalions]

What about Mayes?

Rich too.

In his defense. I think he means the boys that have been drafted since the GH5.

 

[Sherrinator]

The only one we could have was the pick 5 we traded to Collingwood for Beams. The others haven't been here 2 years yet.

 

[Crawb]

In his defense. I think he means the boys that have been drafted since the GH5.

That's what I mean.

 

[Crawb]

The only one we could have was the pick 5 we traded to Collingwood for Beams. The others haven't been here 2 years yet.

Exactly my point. It's been a while since GH5. But because of this we still haven't really proven that fancied first round draft picks post-GH5 want to re-sign. Hence my point. We still don't really know whether the media perception is wrong or right yet.

 

[M Malice]

Exactly my point. It's been a while since GH5. But because of this we still haven't really proven that fancied first round draft picks post-GH5 want to re-sign. Hence my point. We still don't really know whether the media perception is wrong or right yet.

spot on, it is total speculation and the easy headline grab by the media IMO, no need to investigate the reality just perpetuate the "all the young guns want to leave" myth. lazy journalism.

 

[Haso]

lazy journalism.

Populist journalism.

Sad.

 

[Sherrinator]

Exactly my point. It's been a while since GH5. But because of this we still haven't really proven that fancied first round draft picks post-GH5 want to re-sign. Hence my point. We still don't really know whether the media perception is wrong or right yet.

If Schache goes, it will be because of a huge contract. The AFLPA and bulldogs have a lot to answer for.

Don't think that it will prove anything other than highly rated players get more perks during and after their careers in Melbourne.

 

[M Malice]

If Schache goes, it will be because of a huge contract. The AFLPA and bulldogs have a lot to answer for.

hypothetical- if Schache was at the crows/eagles or even another melbourne club and a melbourne club offered him 200-300k a year more would he leave?

 

[Dalions]

hypothetical- if Schache was at the crows/eagles or even another melbourne club and a melbourne club offered him 200-300k a year more would he leave?

From the article in the courier mail today.
It sounds like we are only talking about 100k more at the moment.
Lions have offered a 5yr contract at 600k.
Richmond at the moment are offering up to 700k.

 

[jackess]

From the article in the courier mail today.
It sounds like we are only talking about 100k more at the moment.
Lions have offered a 5yr contract at 600k.
Richmond at the moment are offering up to 700k.

I don't think the Crows or eagles would offer him even 600. Maybe 450.

 

[Dalions]

I don't think the Crows or eagles would offer him even 600. Maybe 450.

It is starting to become a little more 'fire' than 'smoke' isn't it!
Or is that just me?

 

[jackess]

It is starting to become a little more 'fire' than 'smoke' isn't it!
Or is that just me?

'Putting negotiations off until the end of the season' would be a strong indication but at the moment I think we've still got a decent chance.

 

[Dalions]

'Putting negotiations off until the end of the season' would be a strong indication but at the moment I think we've still got a decent chance.

The paper today suggested that things have possibly been put off until later in the year.

 

[snooplions]

I don't think money will be the reason he moves back. I think it could genuinely be home-sickness. I highly doubt he would leave the club, where he wears his dad's number who played at the same club just for more money this early in his career. Much more likely imo that it will be a longing to be closer to his family and friends. On a side note one of his best friends is Clayton Oliver.

 

[briztoon]

As others have pointed out, since the go home 5 and the 2013 draft, we really haven't had much of a chance to lose anyone.

As for the Narrative, I do not believe it's since the go home 5. The go home 5 form the core oft he narrative. Aish reinforces the narrative. Schahce is our first real test since Aish.

2013.
Aish, drafted with pick 7 from 2013 left for Melbourne.

The rest of the kids from that draft really haven't shown much yet. Lewi Taylor won the rising star, but regressed/stalled progression after his rookie season. McStay, Gardiner, Cutler and Nick Robertson have shown flashes of potential, otherwise haven't shown much for Melbourne teams to come poaching.

2014.
We traded all our high picks, with a lot of discussion that the club was very gun shy about taking high picks to the draft and deliberately traded for some mature players rather than risk a repeat of the year before. Picked up Dawson and Andrews from the academy with mid picks, then Josh Watts and Jaden McGrath, Josh McGuiness and Josh Clayton with late picks.

Only Dawson and Andrews remain, as the others were always long odds to make it.

2015.
Now the real test. Re-sign Schache.

Our other draft picks.

Keays and Hipwood from the academy.

Draft slider Mathieson and (perma-crock) Sam Skinner. Fair to say, these kids possibly feel somewhat indebted to the club to up and leave just yet.


2016.
Let's not even go here yet.

 

[BigCat2]

Josh Clayton is still here.

 

[briztoon]

Josh Clayton is still here.

Oops.