Name a Conservative Success Story

[owen87]

you are shifting the goalposts

OP has clearly framed the discussion as success = major reforms, i.e. big banner policy that generates a note in the historical record and fundamentally changes the way the government does business in a particular area. Look at the examples cited - gun reform, GST, etc.

my response was simply that in a developed country with mature and stable government and systems, this kind of groundbreaking reinvent-the-wheel type innovation is a very small part of governing. The vast majority of $, decisions and personnel across Australian government agencies are dedicated to keeping things that mostly work well, continuing to mostly work well.

does this mean I think all government should be frozen in time? of course not - but the iterative change you cite, in terms of adapting to evolving circumstances (e.g. building a new freeway to service population growth) is hardly innovative policy - and far more about what I would regard as current system maintenance than the historic leaps that are quite clearly the focus of this thread

I wasn't the OP, therefore they were never my goalposts, so pretty hard to shift them.

But now you're arguing about degree of reform?

I'd have thought a consistent policy of appropriately funding healthcare for example would be something a conservative party could hang their hats on. But they haven't, so they can't. (Nor can the Labor party mind you).

 

[Number37]

Make change for the sake of it in other words.

Honestly

We should have 1 govt for eternity and never have elections.

Cool story bro.

 

[HairyO]

We should have 1 govt for eternity and never have elections.

A fair few lefties in here got a little hard at the thought of that.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

A fair few lefties in here got a little hard at the thought of that.

I would contend there are just as many right wingers tumescing over such a prospect.

Right now there are literally tens of millions of Americans who would like to see a fair and square election result overturned and their orange-tinged crybaby leader installed for life.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

you are shifting the goalposts

OP has clearly framed the discussion as success = major reforms, i.e. big banner policy that generates a note in the historical record and fundamentally changes the way the government does business in a particular area. Look at the examples cited - gun reform, GST, etc.

my response was simply that in a developed country with mature and stable government and systems, this kind of groundbreaking reinvent-the-wheel type innovation is a very small part of governing. The vast majority of $, decisions and personnel across Australian government agencies are dedicated to keeping things that mostly work well, continuing to mostly work well.

does this mean I think all government should be frozen in time? of course not - but the iterative change you cite, in terms of adapting to evolving circumstances (e.g. building a new freeway to service population growth) is hardly innovative policy - and far more about what I would regard as current system maintenance than the historic leaps that are quite clearly the focus of this thread

But GST and gun reform didn't just suddenly appear like no-one had ever thought of them before, which seems to be your definition of "reform". They were (all-too rare) examples of a conservative government responding to a situation where the old structures had proved not fit for purpose, and taking appropriate steps to remedy it.

 

[Caesar]

But GST and gun reform didn't just suddenly appear like no-one had ever thought of them before, which seems to be your definition of "reform".

lol nowhere did I say or even imply that

 

[HairyO]

But GST and gun reform didn't just suddenly appear like no-one had ever thought of them before, which seems to be your definition of "reform".

Labor never talked about gun control and railed against GST both times the Coalition pushed for it. To the point of blatant lying about how damaging it would be to the entire country.

I can only hope you are too young to remember.

 

[DaBarz]

We should have 1 govt for eternity and never have elections.

Cool story bro.

So things that were abject failures such as carbon and mining tax pink batts and cash for clunkers should have been done because someone thought they were a “good idea”?

I’m not saying govt shouldn’t reform but calling policy implemented from thought bubbles isn’t reform.

 

[DaBarz]

you are shifting the goalposts

OP has clearly framed the discussion as success = major reforms, i.e. big banner policy that generates a note in the historical record and fundamentally changes the way the government does business in a particular area. Look at the examples cited - gun reform, GST, etc.

my response was simply that in a developed country with mature and stable government and systems, this kind of groundbreaking reinvent-the-wheel type innovation is a very small part of governing. The vast majority of $, decisions and personnel across Australian government agencies are dedicated to keeping things that mostly work well, continuing to mostly work well.

does this mean I think all government should be frozen in time? of course not - but the iterative change you cite, in terms of adapting to evolving circumstances (e.g. building a new freeway to service population growth) is hardly innovative policy - and far more about what I would regard as current system maintenance than the historic leaps that are quite clearly the focus of this thread

Excellent post

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So things that were abject failures such as carbon and mining tax pink batts and cash for clunkers should have been done because someone thought they were a “good idea”?

I’m not saying govt shouldn’t reform but calling policy implemented from thought bubbles isn’t reform.

Kevin Rudd was, and still is a conservative.

 

[Gough]

So things that were abject failures such as carbon and mining tax pink batts and cash for clunkers should have been done because someone thought they were a “good idea”?

I’m not saying govt shouldn’t reform but calling policy implemented from thought bubbles isn’t reform.

Carbon pricing was a notable success, the economy continued to grow and emissions dropped, Abbott scrapping it was complete vandalism.

How the carbon tax has come back to haunt the Australian government

The federal government's stance on carbon tax policy means it risks being caught on the wrong side of history and damaging the economy, writes Ian Verrender.

www.abc.net.au

It was an off-the-cuff comment after a few drinks, delivered with a belly laugh from a then-senior minister a few years back.

"The difference between Labor's policy and ours is that Julia Gillard introduced a scheme where big polluters paid Australian taxpayers. Tony changed it so that Australian taxpayers pay big polluters," the minister said.

That policy, of course, was the carbon tax.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

lol nowhere did I say or even imply that

In that case then I think you're splitting hairs simply to avoid conceding the other poster has a valid point.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Labor never talked about gun control and railed against GST both times the Coalition pushed for it. To the point of blatant lying about how damaging it would be to the entire country.

I can only hope you are too young to remember.

Mate I remember Harold Holt disappearing!

I'm not a Labor barracker; they're much too right wing in most respects for me, and am happy to condemn their cheap politicking over the GST. A policy they had formerly proposed!

And no, they didn't ever talk about gun control, but it's worth remembering they weren't in power when Port Arthur happened. My point to Caesar is that with Port Arthur, events changed (dramatically), and Howard, to his credit, saw what needed to be done, and had the courage (or recklessness) to push through a reform (in anyone's dictionary). Unthinkable these days, Lib or Lab.

 

[DaBarz]

Carbon pricing was a notable success, the economy continued to grow and emissions dropped, Abbott scrapping it was complete vandalism.

How the carbon tax has come back to haunt the Australian government

The federal government's stance on carbon tax policy means it risks being caught on the wrong side of history and damaging the economy, writes Ian Verrender.

www.abc.net.au

And of course it was the first thing Albanese did it was such a great idea.

 

[Gethelred]

Mate I remember Harold Holt disappearing!

I'm not a Labor barracker; they're much too right wing in most respects for me, and am happy to condemn their cheap politicking over the GST. A policy they had formerly proposed!

And no, they didn't ever talk about gun control, but it's worth remembering they weren't in power when Port Arthur happened. My point to Caesar is that with Port Arthur, events changed (dramatically), and Howard, to his credit, saw what needed to be done, and had the courage (or recklessness) to push through a reform (in anyone's dictionary). Unthinkable these days, Lib or Lab.

Think this is a touch unfair to Labor, who only an election ago brought a suite of reforms to the public well in advance of the fed election only to have the public in the dying days swing late and swing hard in the other direction. I'm not the biggest Albanese fan, but there's certainly more than a little realpolitik about his approach this term.

 

[DaBarz]

Mate I remember Harold Holt disappearing!

I'm not a Labor barracker; they're much too right wing in most respects for me, and am happy to condemn their cheap politicking over the GST. A policy they had formerly proposed!

And no, they didn't ever talk about gun control, but it's worth remembering they weren't in power when Port Arthur happened. My point to Caesar is that with Port Arthur, events changed (dramatically), and Howard, to his credit, saw what needed to be done, and had the courage (or recklessness) to push through a reform (in anyone's dictionary). Unthinkable these days, Lib or Lab.

Precisely
You’ve made his point.
Gun reform was in response to a situation.
He hasn’t sat back before Pt Arthur and contemplated any sort of a buy back/ban policy.

That was the opposite of the “thought bubble” that labor favour.

 

[Caesar]

In that case then I think you're splitting hairs simply to avoid conceding the other poster has a valid point.

I don’t think it’s splitting hairs at all

business-as-usual budget supplementation and minor program tweaks to account for normal changes in population etc. is clearly not in scope of what this thread is discussing - OP was very plainly asking for big historic policy shifts

my point was simply that is a very small part of running a good government and hardly a blanket metric for success

I am not sure why that is proving so difficult for you and others to understand

 

[Number37]

So things that were abject failures such as carbon and mining tax pink batts and cash for clunkers should have been done because someone thought they were a “good idea”?

I’m not saying govt shouldn’t reform but calling policy implemented from thought bubbles isn’t reform.

WTF are you on about?

 

[Number37]

A fair few lefties in here got a little hard at the thought of that.

And even more RWNJs got a little jealous because the lefties got hard given the RWNJs problems with erectile disfunction.
Bear in mind that a cohort of RWNJs self identify as INCELS before you get all offended.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I don’t think it’s splitting hairs at all

business-as-usual budget supplementation and minor program tweaks to account for normal changes in population etc. is clearly not in scope of what this thread is discussing - OP was very plainly asking for big historic policy shifts

my point was simply that is a very small part of running a good government and hardly a blanket metric for success

I am not sure why that is proving so difficult for you and others to understand

I don't think you're making the amazing point you seem to think you're making.

We all know that a lot of government is just nuts and bolts. But that's not what this thread is talking about.

 

[Caesar]

But that's not what this thread is talking about.

that is my point

 

[DaBarz]

WTF are you on about?

Implementing policy for the sake of doing something is a Labor thing.
Not implementing good policy - such as boat turn backs - is also a Labor thing.

Coalition got the numbers of asylum seekers coming here by boat down from thousands to pretty much zero, saving lives in the process.

 

[Gough]

Implementing policy for the sake of doing something is a Labor thing.
Not implementing good policy - such as boat turn backs - is also a Labor thing.

Coalition got the numbers of asylum seekers coming here by boat down from thousands to pretty much zero, saving lives in the process.

The Rudd government restarted boat turn backs but don't let history get in the way of your opinion.

 

[Number37]

Implementing policy for the sake of doing something is a Labor thing.
Not implementing good policy - such as boat turn backs - is also a Labor thing.

Coalition got the numbers of asylum seekers coming here by boat down from thousands to pretty much zero, saving lives in the process.

Another conservative success story...spending billions every year to keep 2 asylum seekers in detention.

GoOd EcOnOmIc MaNaGeRs.


Conservative success story #598: stealing gas fields from East Timor.
Which led to conservative success story #599: prosecuting the people who blew the whistle on the Oz govt's theft of East Timor's gas fields.
Which led to conservative success story #600: stacking the courts and tribunals with LNP shills so that they could get away with whatever they wanted.
Which led to conservative success story numbers #601: the Abbott govt. F'n LOL and #602: I'm too busy holidaying in Hawaii to hold a hose.
Which led to conservative success story number #603: Who needs a Nigerian prince when you can get Centerlink to scam its customers with an illegal debt recovery scheme.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

that is my point

Sure.

Valid point. Millions of words have been written in thousands of books and essays analysing the pluses and minuses of governments around world and almost to a fault they've entirely concentrated on the stuff that you (quite possibly correctly) say doesn't matter.

We all keenly await you starting your new thread "On balance, which Post-War Australian government has had the most sensible document storage protocols?"