Prediction Positional Changes for 2022

[sante]

Stack is the back pocket, Mansell has to prove himself and Short is not a wingman(not by a long way)

We all would’ve said Rioli isn’t a HB 6 months ago

 

[Mr Magic]

We all would’ve said Rioli isn’t a HB 6 months ago

No one has convinced me yet either.

A drovers dog could play half back these days.

Unless you win a premiership at half back you are not a half back with all the BS ways they play football theses days

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Mansell is not half the defender Stack is.

How many contested marks has Mansell taken in the square as a defender one on one??

As for Short, is he known as a marker, a contested player?? He simply is not a wingman. Balta is more a wingman than Short says me

Running all day presenting as a option is called a link player, not the role of a wingman, that is a role created by BS backline play these days typically on half back lines where the hurt to opposition is less so they let them roam and Shorts length of kicking make it more penetrating

While you want wingman to be contested ball winning marking beasts... stats tell you that is simply not the case... Look at the best wingman of recent years...

Isaac Smith
Andrew Gaff
Josh Kelly (when he plays wing/Not midfield)
Lachy Whitfield
Brad Hill (before Saints lol)

None of them are contested balling winning marking beasts... you just have the profile wrong.

And the fact you don't think running all day (2 way running) and LINKING the back 6 to the fwd 6 is not the role of a wingman just shows why you have ZERO clue on the matter,

 

[Grrr]

Mansell is not half the defender Stack is.

How many contested marks has Mansell taken in the square as a defender one on one??

As for Short, is he known as a marker, a contested player?? He simply is not a wingman. Balta is more a wingman than Short says me

Running all day presenting as a option is called a link player that is a role created by BS backline play these days typically on half back lines where the hurt to opposition is less so they let them roam and Shorts length of kicking make it more penetrating

Shorts contested work improved a lot this year, and MacIntosh is a marking player? Worst 193cm wingman/player above his head I've seen. As HH mentioned half Shorts kicks go to often long down the line, safe and often out of bounds. Stack is far more creative in that respect, up the guts. So why not have Short's long bombs going to the full forward line. One thing, defenders are not comfortable with the ball in a long kickers hands, Stewie Maxfield style, Richo loved it when he had the ball.

 

[Mr Magic]

While you want wingman to be contested ball winning marking beasts... stats tell you that is simply not the case... Look at the best wingman of recent years...

Isaac Smith
Andrew Gaff
Josh Kelly (when he plays wing/Not midfield)
Lachy Whitfield
Brad Hill (before Saints lol)

None of them are contested balling winning marking beasts... you just have the profile wrong.

And the fact you don't think running all day (2 way running) and LINKING the back 6 to the fwd 6 is not the role of a wingman just shows why you have ZERO clue on the matter,

Smith takes a few marks, Hill and Gaff are down hill skiers on good teams and Whitfield takes plenty of marks and plays back. Kelly marks.

None of those plays are like Short, they move a hell of a lot more.

Even Mitch Robinson takes a mark and competes and Mcluggage takes his marks and gets up and back.

Short would not have the tank.

Kelly takes marks but he is all over the place

Hill and Gaff are perfect examples of misreading the wing position

The best wingman we had was Lids and Richo and even Campbell in contemporary times. Bowden was alright to when not CHB

 

[Grrr]

Smith takes a few marks, Hill and Gaff are down hill skiers on good teams and Whitfield takes plenty of marks and plays back. Kelly marks.

None of those plays are like Short, they move a hell of a lot more.

Even Mitch Robinson takes a mark and competes and Mcluggage takes his marks and gets up and back.

Short would not have the tank.

Kelly takes marks but he is all over the place

Hill and Gaff are perfect examples of misreading the wing position

The best wingman we had was Lids and Richo and even Campbell in contemporary times. Bowden was alright to when not CHB

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Smith takes a few marks, Hill and Gaff are down hill skiers on good teams and Whitfield takes plenty of marks and plays back. Kelly marks.

None of those plays are like Short, they move a hell of a lot more.

Even Mitch Robinson takes a mark and competes and Mcluggage takes his marks and gets up and back.

Short would not have the tank.

Kelly takes marks but he is all over the place

Hill and Gaff are perfect examples of misreading the wing position

The best wingman we had was Lids and Richo and even Campbell in contemporary times. Bowden was alright to when not CHB

According to you, there are no good wingman in the AFL then... which automatically means short will be no good at it...

Right...



Marks (Ave) this year:
Short: 6.0
McGluggage: 5.3
Robinson: 4.5

 

[Grrr]

Smith takes a few marks, Hill and Gaff are down hill skiers on good teams and Whitfield takes plenty of marks and plays back. Kelly marks.

None of those plays are like Short, they move a hell of a lot more.

Even Mitch Robinson takes a mark and competes and Mcluggage takes his marks and gets up and back.

Short would not have the tank.

Kelly takes marks but he is all over the place

Hill and Gaff are perfect examples of misreading the wing position

The best wingman we had was Lids and Richo and even Campbell in contemporary times. Bowden was alright to when not CHB

Well they don't take many. Contested anyway, not standing out wide waiting for an uncontested mark.
Smith is 228 in the league for contested marks, by comparison Jack Higgins was at 147 and Markov 197.
Mitch Robinson 298th, McCluggage and Witfield =362rd, Short 434.
So it would seem marking is not a big part of a wingman's game.

 

[Mr Magic]

Well they don't take many. Contested anyway, not standing out wide waiting for an uncontested mark.
Smith is 228 in the league for contested marks, by comparison Jack Higgins was at 147 and Markov 197.
Mitch Robinson 298th, McCluggage and Witfield =362rd, Short 434.
So it would seem marking is not a big part of a wingman's game.

most uncontested as in space but Shorts ranking highlights wing is not for him. Whitfield takes a lot of marks, mostly uncontested

 

[Mr Magic]

According to you, there are no good wingman in the AFL then... which automatically means short will be no good at it...

Right...



Marks (Ave) this year:
Short: 6.0
McGluggage: 5.3
Robinson: 4.5

Wing is a largely ignored position for most teams which makes it a weakness for them we can attack

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Wing is a largely ignored position for most teams which makes it a weakness for them we can attack

We get absolutely torched by wingman year after year...

Brad Hill torched us for years at Hawthorn and Freo
Isaac Smith gets sh*tloads against us all the time...
Gaff kills us everytime...
Sh*t even Polec used to kill us

Even sh*t wingers get the fotty against us... especially in 6-6-6...

We set up our wingman on the back 1/3 of the square, 15-20m away from their opposing wingmen, Opp often win the ball in the centre square, head sideways to an open wingman, who then kicks it over our wingmans head who is supposed to be heling the defence...

Our immediate retreat by our wingman to help our back 6 hurts us so much...

We don't attack sh*t with our wings, which is way Short with his long and accurate kick would change things sooo much for us.

 

[Grrr]

most uncontested as in space but Shorts ranking highlights wing is not for him. Whitfield takes a lot of marks, mostly uncontested

Those numbers were for contested marks. Not a lot of difference between 362 and 434, means neither take contested marks, taken into account a player like Markov was 197th.

 

[RunningBounce]

Don't mind some of these suggestions.

I reckon Cotch has another year in him, but not at centre bounce. We've given up too many goals from centre bounce, and feels like Cotch is the one they get past more than others. His game time is down. He looks battered.

His great one-on-one, decent overhead for his height, and a good shot at goal. His played forward a bit, although it was earlier in his career. Kicked 18 goals 11 in 2014.

 

[Morro]

We have too many backs now so Short to a wing with a healthy list is a luxury IMO

Draft Schlong and Play Balta Forward ruck or as a swingman

Baker full time fwd/mid

Pickett to play forward

Parker to train with the mids all pre season

 

[Mr Magic]

Those numbers were for contested marks. Not a lot of difference between 362 and 434, means neither take contested marks, taken into account a player like Markov was 197th.

I take how they evaluate a contest with a grain of salt to be honest.

Either way, Short does not cover the length of the ground greatly I do not think, more so in a area. He is more a lateral mover

 

[Hank Heavenly]

I take how they evaluate a contest with a grain of salt to be honest.

Either way, Short does not cover the length of the ground greatly I do not think, more so in a area. He is more a lateral mover

so now the direction you run determines whether you run well or not...

Ever thought his role/position in the backline, doesn't allow him to run the same patterns as a wingman any chance?

 

[Mr Magic]

so now the direction you run determines whether you run well or not...

Ever thought his role/position in the backline, doesn't allow him to run the same patterns as a wingman any chance?

The wing role is largely up and back. Be a forward threat, defend in the back half and run the lines. I doubt he is capable of that. Half back line is where you place players deficient in a few areas because they can rack up a lot of uncontested possessions and look to be a star without really affecting the contest

 

[Grrr]

The wing role is largely up and back. Be a forward threat, defend in the back half and run the lines. I doubt he is capable of that. Half back line is where you place players deficient in a few areas because they can rack up a lot of uncontested possessions and look to be a star without really affecting the contest

Short is as good a runner these days as many wingman playing and regularly covers good km's a game. more than Pickett for one, and maybe MacIntosh even. The positives might outweigh the negatives.

 

[Grrr]

I take how they evaluate a contest with a grain of salt to be honest.

Either way, Short does not cover the length of the ground greatly I do not think, more so in a area. He is more a lateral mover

A contested mark is just pretty much the same for everyone.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

The wing role is largely up and back. Be a forward threat, defend in the back half and run the lines. I doubt he is capable of that. Half back line is where you place players deficient in a few areas because they can rack up a lot of uncontested possessions and look to be a star without really affecting the contest

Have a look in the GF last year, he was actually getting up to around the wings and kicking it deep into the F50... was half the reason he was second in the Norm...

 

[Mr Magic]

Have a look in the GF last year, he was actually getting up to around the wings and kicking it deep into the F50... was half the reason he was second in the Norm...

This is my take.

I get the feeling some posters have favourites for various reasons in terms of players. They might know them, they might simply favour them, there even might be a indirect commercial benefit. Either way, some like to move players around to suit their take.

This is just a impression, I am not singling out certain posters, I am just sensing trends as a observation

I have no connections, I do not live in Victoria, I am independent. To me Short is most suited at half back because his length of kicking can be maximised and other deficiencies minimised.

My attitude is this. Better players should be on the wing. It should not be a position that is compromised unless your list is compromised.

My impression is a lot of good players that should be wingers play in other positions because their list is weak. In that regard if RFC can get better players playing a better wing role with more effect over a bigger part of the ground that helps us to a premiership in terms of gaining advantage over other clubs. I think the Lions get an advantage because other clubs do not take the position seriously.

I also feel the ball in the air moves quicker and can get to the forwards quicker. I also think a ball in the air saves energy and is more productive in terms of saving energy for other areas like contests.

The other thing is if Short is wing he is forward at times which means he cannot launch for goal outside 50 like he has done as much because he is positioned too far forward in a wing role. When he is forward in the forward fifty as a wingman how effective is he in the contests??

 

[Hank Heavenly]

This is my take.

I get the feeling some posters have favourites for various reasons in terms of players. They might know them, they might simply favour them, there even might be a indirect commercial benefit. Either way, some like to move players around to suit their take.

This is just a impression, I am not singling out certain posters, I am just sensing trends as a observation

I have no connections, I do not live in Victoria, I am independent. To me Short is most suited at half back because his length of kicking can be maximised and other deficiencies minimised.

My attitude is this. Better players should be on the wing. It should not be a position that is compromised unless your list is compromised.

My impression is a lot of good players that should be wingers play in other positions because their list is weak. In that regard if RFC can get better players playing a better wing role with more effect over a bigger part of the ground that helps us to a premiership in terms of gaining advantage over other clubs. I think the Lions get an advantage because other clubs do not take the position seriously.

I also feel the ball in the air moves quicker and can get to the forwards quicker. I also think a ball in the air saves energy and is more productive in terms of saving energy for other areas like contests.

The other thing is if Short is wing he is forward at times which means he cannot launch for goal outside 50 like he has done as much because he is positioned too far forward in a wing role. When he is forward in the forward fifty as a wingman how effective is he in the contests??

I have zero connection to Short, nor is he my "Favourite" by any stretch, so I am commenting as in independent just like you. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean I must be heavily invested somewhere compared to you.

My attitude is this. Better players should be on the wing. It should not be a position that is compromised unless your list is compromised.

This is why I think Short to a wing is a good move. He's a much better player, and ball user, and at worst an equal runner when comared to our existing wings over the last couple of years (Caddy, Kmac, Pickett, Naish, HRS).

And to be honest, I actually think his kicking this year, which is his weapon, has gone to waste, as he is getting the footy in bad positions (not his fault, but due to our poorer performance). So when he gets it, he's hemmed into the boundary line and doing sh*tty short kicks or bombing lone down the line to the oppo.

Ans as for saying our wingman are positioned too close for his long kicking, are you saying because he is closer, he won't be able to kick goals.... hahahaha... you realise the close you get, the easier it is right?

 

[Mr Magic]

I have zero connection to Short, nor is he my "Favourite" by any stretch, so I am commenting as in independent just like you. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean I must be heavily invested somewhere compared to you.

My attitude is this. Better players should be on the wing. It should not be a position that is compromised unless your list is compromised.

This is why I think Short to a wing is a good move. He's a much better player, and ball user, and at worst an equal runner when comared to our existing wings over the last couple of years (Caddy, Kmac, Pickett, Naish, HRS).

And to be honest, I actually think his kicking this year, which is his weapon, has gone to waste, as he is getting the footy in bad positions (not his fault, but due to our poorer performance). So when he gets it, he's hemmed into the boundary line and doing sh*tty short kicks or bombing lone down the line to the oppo.

Ans as for saying our wingman are positioned too close for his long kicking, are you saying because he is closer, he won't be able to kick goals.... hahahaha... you realise the close you get, the easier it is right?

I look at Short as one of the eleven small forwards that where recruited.

He has found a role at half back where he is effective. The club can't play everybody at half back.

More effective players than Short should be on the wing I think. Players that can contest in the forward line, back line, run the lines, cover the ground, kick long goals and other goals and defend.

I never said you where not independent so no need to get defensive.

Kmac is a better runner than Short, HRS is arguably more effective in the contest and forward, Caddy many think cannot play wing effectively like Mathew Lloyd, ad Naish has not made it yet. Pickett plays a few different roles filling in.

One of the better wingman is Whitfield but he plays in the backline at times because GWS are still trying to sort out their set up

 

[Hank Heavenly]

I look at Short as one of the eleven small forwards that where recruited.

He has found a role at half back where he is effective. The club can't play everybody at half back.

More effective players than Short should be on the wing I think. Players that can contest in the forward line, back line, run the lines, cover the ground, kick long goals and other goals and defend.

I never said you where not independent so no need to get defensive.

Kmac is a better runner than Short, HRS is arguably more effective in the contest and forward

So you said better players play on the wing...

The say KMac and RHS should be on the wing, but Short is clearly superior to both players, so which one is it?

What position he was recruited for is irrelevant this far into his career. And part the reason that we can afford to move him to a wing is because of your point, can't play everybody at half back...

You 'reasons' tend to support my case better than your Magic

 

[Mr Magic]

So you said better players play on the wing...

The say KMac and RHS should be on the wing, but Short is clearly superior to both players, so which one is it?

What position he was recruited for is irrelevant this far into his career. And part the reason that we can afford to move him to a wing is because of your point, can't play everybody at half back...

You 'reasons' tend to support my case better than your Magic

Why would Short be superior than Kmac and RHS?? Just because Short is superior than RHS and Kmac at half back in the current set-up does not mean he is superior than them on the wing

Who says Short is clearly superior to Kmac and RHS?? How do they go on one on ones?