Autopsy Post 2021 Grand Final Western Bulldogs game review, the good the bad and the ugly, come talk about it here!

[Norm De Guerre]

Way way off topic but ....................... gee Garry Lyon annoys me. Was interviewing players in the Melbourne dressing room for Fox after the match and made a number of references to players along the lines of “ we have Nick Riewoldt watching a champion of his club who played 300 games and never won a premiership, tell him what it feels like.” Why drag Nick into it? Why not say “ Tell me what it’s like”?

Because Reiwoldt is a close friend of Lyons and as one of the most driven players ever to play the game often talks about how much it burns not to be a premiership player. He wanted to share the experience with a friend even if that was vicariously. Its like any friend calling up to congratulate after 2016. Gary just did it live on TV.

The real question is. Why the * were you still watching post game?

I hit the silk and bailed out with 90 seconds to go. It was time to unlock the door and let the kids out from under the stairs anyways.

 

[kneecapper]

There's always a select few fringe 'supporters' without class. Dogs supporters or not, they were hopefully condemned and banned. No excuse for that sort of thing.

What really gets to me is the Sydney supporters who still go on about the umpires five years later and who continue to sour what was the greatest day of our football following lives.

Full credit to Melbourne, they were too good. I've got no interested engaging with their supporters let alone bringing them down (like has been done to us since 2016). They can enjoy it on their own, as we did five years ago, and we'll all get on with our lives.

As a supporter I like to try to mirror the attitude I hope the club and players have which is: you can't control the umpires, you can't change the past, so keep your focus on what's in front of you. One of the main things I like about Horse (and Beveridge, for that matter) is that they don't make excuses and give the press complete donuts when it comes to commenting on the officiating unlike certain others (Scott brothers, Ross Lyon et al.). In my view, the latter approach creates a losing culture that gives players excuses for not getting the job done.

 

[Hobdog]

There's always a select few fringe 'supporters' without class. Dogs supporters or not, they were hopefully condemned and banned. No excuse for that sort of thing.

What really gets to me is the Sydney supporters who still go on about the umpires five years later and who continue to sour what was the greatest day of our football following lives.

Full credit to Melbourne, they were too good. I've got no interested engaging with their supporters let alone bringing them down (like has been done to us since 2016). They can enjoy it on their own, as we did five years ago, and we'll all get on with our lives.

I second all of this. Sydney supporters who waited years for a flag should recognise the joy and relief that comes with that achievement. They should also recognise the hurt and frustration that some dogs fans feel when that achievement is denigrated and completely undersold by opposing fans desperate to find a reason or sense of comfort to ease their souls. Not all dogs fans are impacted by this but like humans in general, we’re all different and we experience things differently as a result. For me to be constantly told that my football team didn’t earn a flag despite the extraordinary journey and story to win it really sucks joy out of the achievement for me.


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[Dogs_r_barking]

As a supporter I like to try to mirror the attitude I hope the club and players have which is: you can't control the umpires, you can't change the past, so keep your focus on what's in front of you. One of the main things I like about Horse (and Beveridge, for that matter) is that they don't make excuses and give the press complete donuts when it comes to commenting on the officiating unlike certain others (Scott brothers, Ross Lyon et al.). In my view, the latter approach creates a losing culture that gives players excuses for not getting the job done.

I really enjoyed watching the Swans win and break that drought, I think all of Australia was behind them.

I do remember how disdainful Swans supporters were towards us when we got through to the GF. I think it annoyed me enough that I had a go at your board and was banned, I don’t think it was GF day. I have this ridiculous sense of fairness, that is at odds with the real world at times.

 

[Sentinel]

As a supporter I like to try to mirror the attitude I hope the club and players have which is: you can't control the umpires, you can't change the past, so keep your focus on what's in front of you. One of the main things I like about Horse (and Beveridge, for that matter) is that they don't make excuses and give the press complete donuts when it comes to commenting on the officiating unlike certain others (Scott brothers, Ross Lyon et al.). In my view, the latter approach creates a losing culture that gives players excuses for not getting the job done.

I appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I don't think that's entirely true about Longmire.

Sydney Swans coach John Longmire says he called AFL umpiring department after 2016 Grand Final

Swans coach’s message to umpiring department

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Tommycash]

P.s. something I noticed after the game, post Petracca speech when the dogs were heading under the tunnels. Jamarra was getting around all the boys (players and non playing players) to console them. A small thing but seemed to me to show care and maturity from him.

 

[Bald]

One thing you must always take into consideration when dealing with people on the internet.

When walking through a shopping centre and you see that really, really strange unit that is clearly impaired by previous bad decisions (i.e alcoholics, junkies, etc), these people are able to get a mobile phone and that truly is the only piece of equipment you require to be a half-wit online. You wouldn't approach these people in person or take their opinions to heart, so don't do it online.

I appreciate all the Demons fans that have been classy in their victory which truly is the overwhelming majority. The vocal minority do not bother me.

 

[Bald]

P.s. something I noticed after the game, post Petracca speech when the dogs were heading under the tunnels. Jamarra was getting around all the boys (players and non playing players) to console them. A small thing but seemed to me to show care and maturity from him.

He's a beautiful young man our Jamarra. He cops his fair share from both our fans and opposition fans purely because of who he's dating which I think is just garbage. He's going to be a fantastic player but regardless of whether or not that eventuates, he's a good young kid and I'm super happy he's ours.

 

[doggies ftw]

Not sure what was so funny about my post immediately following us getting our arses ripped out in a grand final doggies ftw .
Disagree all you like but don't be a prick at a time like this.

Just amazing that you can still find the time to have a crack at our captain, good stuff mate - ballsy

 

[kneecapper]

I appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I don't think that's entirely true about Longmire.

Sydney Swans coach John Longmire says he called AFL umpiring department after 2016 Grand Final

Swans coach’s message to umpiring department

www.foxsports.com.au

Suggesting the need for full time professional umpires to improve standards is a completely different thing than blaming them for the loss and that's backed up by Longmire's comments in the very same article.

 

[Sentinel]

Suggesting the need for full time professional umpires to improve standards is a completely different thing than blaming them for the loss and that's backed up by Longmire's comments in the very same article.

Yeah I'm sure there was absolutely no intention to convey that he wasn't happy about the umpiring performance in the grand final by making those comments.

 

[Al dente]

The midfield got torn to shreds because our rucks weren't competitive at all. Against average midfields we get away with it from the brilliance of our mids but against an equally good midfield setup it's inviting trouble. Which it did and we were eventually shown up.

good point, good midfields know to keep at it and theyll eventually get an advantage and a run on due to our rucks. English personifies that. i thought he played ok generally, but he always has a period in a game where he just doesnt compete adequately.

 

[W W Biscuit]

We like all teams have to look at how the Dees have been able to run out games at the business end of the season while other teams have been running in quicksand. I know we had a hard road and would have something to do with running out of steam. There was more than that they ran all over other teams the cats from 44 points down in round 23. Were full of running against the lions, smashed the cats in the last half of the prelim and completely destroyed us. Yes they were the best team but they must be doing something in the fitness area to do this to the opposition in the last half games.

Exactly this. Let us not forget that, before we obviously hit the wall late in the third quarter, we were out-gunning Melbourne and ready to break the game open ourselves. That is telling.

Time and again this season, what made the difference to Melbourne was their uncannily superior fitness base. I'd even say, unprecedented fitness base. I can't recall another team to have had such a pronounced edge in this area over a season. It won them the flag, no doubt. They'd obviously identified this as possibly their most significant KPI, and the point of difference which would extract the most advantage. It's been done before - think Kennedy's Commandos or Tom Hafey's Richmond - and I can't help but think that Melbourne's success in 2021 will be viewed historically in a similar vein.

It might be sobering for Melbourne supporters to think about the Dogs' experience post-2106 premiership, when opposition clubs went to school on what had generated our success, picked apart our game plan, copied and pasted what worked and put much forensic work into nullifying our advantage. Melbourne bolted to the premiership this year, from ninth in 2020, with what had hitherto been viewed as a list of flaky under-achievers. They have undoubted talent on their list, but so does every team. Particularly us. And when people start talking about dynasties, in no way do I think that Melbourne has THAT level of talent.

Melbourne has established best practice this year in the area of elite level fitness, which has undoubtedly correlated with their ability to stay relatively injury free and stick with a virtually unchanged line-up all season. The benefit of this from a systems point of view alone cannot be underestimated. They were able to trigger beast mode late in games, week after week, when opponents were running on the proverbial smell of an oily rag. One fully expects every other team in the competition to be looking on, taking notes and saying "I'll have me some of that."

The Dees fully deserve their success this year - it was, indeed, the quintessential team effort of both on-field talent and off-field initiative. The biggest challenge awaits them, I think, as every other club looks to make up the ground that gave them such an edge this year. It is then, when they are compelled to re-invent themselves and to win repeated games on talent alone, that we'll be able to make a call about potential dynasties.

 

[redmania]

It's been a long time since I've posted on here. But our frailties showed in that final in the end. We don't ruck well and now we are clearly in our window we need it resolving. We were outfoxed in the 3rd quarter and we should have bodied up and tagged and tried to suffocate them. To have the same thing happen 4 times in 4 minutes is criminal. We need another backman as well. The traveling took its toll but we did have a 2 week rest. When you look at list though we are almost there. Hopefully we can pull off some trades...

 

[Sharpiesadog]

Exactly this. Let us not forget that, before we obviously hit the wall late in the third quarter, we were out-gunning Melbourne and ready to break the game open ourselves. That is telling.

Time and again this season, what made the difference to Melbourne was their uncannily superior fitness base. I'd even say, unprecedented fitness base. I can't recall another team to have had such a pronounced edge in this area over a season. It won them the flag, no doubt. They'd obviously identified this as possibly their most significant KPI, and the point of difference which would extract the most advantage. It's been done before - think Kennedy's Commandos or Tom Hafey's Richmond - and I can't help but think that Melbourne's success in 2021 will be viewed historically in a similar vein.

It might be sobering for Melbourne supporters to think about the Dogs' experience post-2106 premiership, when opposition clubs went to school on what had generated our success, picked apart our game plan, copied and pasted what worked and put much forensic work into nullifying our advantage. Melbourne bolted to the premiership this year, from ninth in 2020, with what had hitherto been viewed as a list of flaky under-achievers. They have undoubted talent on their list, but so does every team. Particularly us. And when people start talking about dynasties, in no way do I think that Melbourne has THAT level of talent.

Melbourne has established best practice this year in the area of elite level fitness, which has undoubtedly correlated with their ability to stay relatively injury free and stick with a virtually unchanged line-up all season. The benefit of this from a systems point of view alone cannot be underestimated. They were able to trigger beast mode late in games, week after week, when opponents were running on the proverbial smell of an oily rag. One fully expects every other team in the competition to be looking on, taking notes and saying "I'll have me some of that."

The Dees fully deserve their success this year - it was, indeed, the quintessential team effort of both on-field talent and off-field initiative. The biggest challenge awaits them, I think, as every other club looks to make up the ground that gave them such an edge this year. It is then, when they are compelled to re-invent themselves and to win repeated games on talent alone, that we'll be able to make a call about potential dynasties.

Benn thinking that myself. I always think teams are getting ahead of themselves when they win one and then immediately talk about dynasties. There is so much that can go wrong and so much that can change.

Heard their Pres going on about the 7 gamer who played in a winning grand final. Yes, its a great achievement but that doesn't guarantee he will go on to be a great player, way too early to say that.

Petracca, Oliver or Gawn does a knee round 1 next year and everything changes.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Benn thinking that myself. I always think teams are getting ahead of themselves when they win one and then immediately talk about dynasties. There is so much that can go wrong and so much that can change.

Heard their Pres going on about the 7 gamer who played in a winning grand final. Yes, its a great achievement but that doesn't guarantee he will go on to be a great player, way too early to say that.

Petracca, Oliver or Gawn does a knee round 1 next year and everything changes.

To have a dynasty you need to be able to win your games through periods of injuries. See Richmond in 2019.

The fact we are the second best team in it with injuries and major list weaknesses is a good sign.

 

[Dogs Rule]

It's been a long time since I've posted on here. But our frailties showed in that final in the end. We don't ruck well and now we are clearly in our window we need it resolving. We were outfoxed in the 3rd quarter and we should have bodied up and tagged and tried to suffocate them. To have the same thing happen 4 times in 4 minutes is criminal. We need another backman as well. The traveling took its toll but we did have a 2 week rest. When you look at list though we are almost there. Hopefully we can pull off some trades...

Exactly. We lost the game in five to ten minutes at the end of the third. That period needs to be looked at, figure out what went wrong, sort it out (trades, recruiting, mindset, fitness, strategy...whatever) and make sure it never happens again.

Personally I think when we got four goals down, we were mentally shot, the mountain became too high. Not an excuse, but I agree with another poster yesterday who said it was like a tennis match that goes 6-7, 7-6, 6-7, 7-6 then 6-0 in the fifth.

Like 2016 we played our Grand Final every week of the finals and combined with all the travel, overly restrictive quarantine garbage in each state, our heads left the game and the rest is history. Shouldn't happen, but it did, but we just have to fix it and use it to drive us to bigger and better things.

We're no longer that club that lost 7 Prelims between 85 and 2010, we've achieved the ultimate, fallen well short this time, but we'll be back and this will burn deep and will make the next flag all the more sweeter (and the best part is that it'll be at the G and we'll all be there).

 

[hutchy31]

Exactly this. Let us not forget that, before we obviously hit the wall late in the third quarter, we were out-gunning Melbourne and ready to break the game open ourselves. That is telling.

Time and again this season, what made the difference to Melbourne was their uncannily superior fitness base. I'd even say, unprecedented fitness base. I can't recall another team to have had such a pronounced edge in this area over a season. It won them the flag, no doubt. They'd obviously identified this as possibly their most significant KPI, and the point of difference which would extract the most advantage. It's been done before - think Kennedy's Commandos or Tom Hafey's Richmond - and I can't help but think that Melbourne's success in 2021 will be viewed historically in a similar vein.

It might be sobering for Melbourne supporters to think about the Dogs' experience post-2106 premiership, when opposition clubs went to school on what had generated our success, picked apart our game plan, copied and pasted what worked and put much forensic work into nullifying our advantage. Melbourne bolted to the premiership this year, from ninth in 2020, with what had hitherto been viewed as a list of flaky under-achievers. They have undoubted talent on their list, but so does every team. Particularly us. And when people start talking about dynasties, in no way do I think that Melbourne has THAT level of talent.

Melbourne has established best practice this year in the area of elite level fitness, which has undoubtedly correlated with their ability to stay relatively injury free and stick with a virtually unchanged line-up all season. The benefit of this from a systems point of view alone cannot be underestimated. They were able to trigger beast mode late in games, week after week, when opponents were running on the proverbial smell of an oily rag. One fully expects every other team in the competition to be looking on, taking notes and saying "I'll have me some of that."

The Dees fully deserve their success this year - it was, indeed, the quintessential team effort of both on-field talent and off-field initiative. The biggest challenge awaits them, I think, as every other club looks to make up the ground that gave them such an edge this year. It is then, when they are compelled to re-invent themselves and to win repeated games on talent alone, that we'll be able to make a call about potential dynasties.

I think if you look at the similarities between Melbourne and Richmond and where they're comparable is interesting - the dominant defence anchored by two excellent KPDs, strong ruck who can play most of the game, game-changing talent who can burst a game open with clearances/inside 50s/goals backed up by another elite ball-winner, then a bunch of role players who bring pressure. Now that's a pretty superficial way of looking at it, but I'd argue without one of those they lose Saturday.

In contrast, we have only one excellent KPD (whether you're a Gardner or Cordy fan - or neither - they are not established, above average KPDs) and a massive weakness in the ruck. The good news is we do typically have good role players (although a few were well off on Sat night), and the most difficult thing to get - the top 5 player with an elite ball-winner as his sidekick.

Now we can point to Hamling/Roberts and Roughead/Boyd in 2016, but the game has changed since then. No third man up, 6-6-6 and how quickly a team can score because of these means that a great team can pile on multiple goals in minutes.

I think the talent we have in other areas of the ground have covered up those deficiencies - obviously principally the ruck - for a long time now. It's testament to the quality of the playing group that they won so many games and finals with those weaknesses. But without addressing them there will be more pain ahead. The good news is that it feels like this will absolutely be addressed in the off-season, how successfully remains to be seen but there is no way we don't have a massive shake-up in the ruck department and potentially get a KPD in from somewhere else too.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Exactly this. Let us not forget that, before we obviously hit the wall late in the third quarter, we were out-gunning Melbourne and ready to break the game open ourselves. That is telling.

Time and again this season, what made the difference to Melbourne was their uncannily superior fitness base. I'd even say, unprecedented fitness base. I can't recall another team to have had such a pronounced edge in this area over a season. It won them the flag, no doubt. They'd obviously identified this as possibly their most significant KPI, and the point of difference which would extract the most advantage. It's been done before - think Kennedy's Commandos or Tom Hafey's Richmond - and I can't help but think that Melbourne's success in 2021 will be viewed historically in a similar vein.

It might be sobering for Melbourne supporters to think about the Dogs' experience post-2106 premiership, when opposition clubs went to school on what had generated our success, picked apart our game plan, copied and pasted what worked and put much forensic work into nullifying our advantage. Melbourne bolted to the premiership this year, from ninth in 2020, with what had hitherto been viewed as a list of flaky under-achievers. They have undoubted talent on their list, but so does every team. Particularly us. And when people start talking about dynasties, in no way do I think that Melbourne has THAT level of talent.

Melbourne has established best practice this year in the area of elite level fitness, which has undoubtedly correlated with their ability to stay relatively injury free and stick with a virtually unchanged line-up all season. The benefit of this from a systems point of view alone cannot be underestimated. They were able to trigger beast mode late in games, week after week, when opponents were running on the proverbial smell of an oily rag. One fully expects every other team in the competition to be looking on, taking notes and saying "I'll have me some of that."

The Dees fully deserve their success this year - it was, indeed, the quintessential team effort of both on-field talent and off-field initiative. The biggest challenge awaits them, I think, as every other club looks to make up the ground that gave them such an edge this year. It is then, when they are compelled to re-invent themselves and to win repeated games on talent alone, that we'll be able to make a call about potential dynasties.

Also, fitness is an area that every club can work on, it's not some magic, secret formula. Every player can run harder, train harder, get themselves the fittest they've ever been.

Given what happened Saturday and the fact we were with them until late in the third, no group of players should be more driven to get the fittest they have ever been than ours.

 

[stevieg1969]

I’m still trying to get my head around how we hadn’t conceded more than 100 points in a match in over a year and then went on to concede 100 points in 1.5 quarters in the GF. I was visualising being premiers when 19 points up as we had only conceded a goal from 1/4 time to mid-Q3 and kicked 8 of our own. The last minute of the 3rd was astonishing. Proud of the year but the last 1.5 quarters was hard to watch.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Did the same, plus completely unfollowed or blocked all AFL pages on Facebook for the next 30 days and I refuse to open Instagram because I only use that to follow the team + afl media. Only popping into BF now to keep up with the team itself and what's going on during the off season.

Still hurts

Same. Only the Bulldogs board and a few other non-footy threads. I'm doing well muting the tv or changing channels to avoid footy reports. Fortunately here on Sirius the news is full of NRL anyway . It's actually very liberating to not be in thrall to the previews and reviews and arguments. The sun is shining and the sky is blue! Who knew?

 

[redmania]

I’m still trying to get my head around how we hadn’t conceded more than 100 points in a match in over a year and then went on to concede 100 points in 1.5 quarters in the GF. I was visualising being premiers when 19 points up as we had only conceded a goal from 1/4 time to mid-Q3 and kicked 8 of our own. The last minute of the 3rd was astonishing. Proud of the year but the last 1.5 quarters was hard to watch.

Me too. I don't think I've ever been this disappointed in a sporting sense than those 10/12 minutes of footy. We played 1 decent 1/4 and capitulated. I was gutted and I still am. We need to trade well to balance this side.

 

[grassman75]

those centre clearance goals after Baz's mistake just killed us. to be so close to breaking the game open and then be 4 goals down 10 minutes later was too much to handle mentally.

I keep coming back to Hunters shot in the dying seconds of the 2nd. If he'd kicked that I reckon it would have broken the Dees

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[grassman75]

I'd love an injury run next year like the Dees had this year.

Gee they were a great side. Well prepared, well drilled. What a year. They don't come around very often.

As for us, well it's twelve months on, we've gone few weeks deeper, but we still have a ruck nightmare, we still have a grand canyon across the back line - we need an interceptor desperately - and we have defensive question marks over our midfield. Same old same old.

I wonder if old mate Macca will get any credit?

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[grassman75]

It was an embarrassment, we leaked 14 goals in a row.

If I wasn’t so lazy I’d go out in the dark and take down my flags and bunting in the garden.

I started pulling mine down halfway through the last qtr

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