Autopsy Roast & Toast R20 vs Fremantle & Changes for R21 vs North Melbourne

[Sterge]

Thread bans for anymore offtopic rubbish or snipes at each other.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

Boy or boy if you think Hardwick coached us to the flags you way off it. This year has proved it without the best assistants we had in the 4 years. We will find more again next season. Caracalla wasn't the only one but along with the other new assistants they came up with that game plan.
Carra is a genius he has taken Essendon from nothing implemented game plan to suit them and they are playing decent footy something we don't seem to be able to do. The young players they have are that far superior to ours it isn't funny.
So from your first sentence, you have learned f all

Do you think any flag coach would have been as good without support?

Are you a boss? Fire all your support staff and then see how you go on your own

 

[Grrr]

Balta has point of difference in comparison to Garth.

Closing speed, athleticism, contested marking, one-on-one ability, athleticism. Garth is an honest toiler but doesn't have those same abilities - and that's fine. He's new Dave, Noah is new Alex.

I can see us moving forward with Noah and Garth as our key defensive book-ends, but the issue will be the supporting cast as Dyl and Dave start to decline.

Remember how good Noah was in Rd.1 v Carlton, with a full support cast around him? Yes he dropped off as the season cont'd, but he was more exposed w/out Vlas n Grimes.

What have you got against Astbury. Still a rock solid footballer, sure he is no Balta, not many are, but he is still doing what he has always done. He also has averaged more disposals and marks than Balta this season. Wouldn't be surprised if Astbury also carried that achilles for a while earlier in the season.

 

[Rioli8217]

Do you think any flag coach would have been as good without support?

Are you a boss? Fire all your support staff and then see how you go on your own

We could look at Clarko for example.

• Damien Hardwick, Richmond (2010–present, 2017, 2019 and 2020 premiership coach)
• Leon Cameron, Greater Western Sydney (2014–present)
• Adam Simpson, West Coast (2014–present, 2018 premiership coach)
• Luke Beveridge, Western Bulldogs (2015–present, 2016 premiership coach)
• Brendon Bolton, Carlton (2016–2019)
• Chris Fagan, Brisbane Lions (2017–present)
• Brett Ratten, St Kilda (2019 caretaker coach, 2020–present)
• Sam Mitchell, Hawthorn (2022–)

8 senior coaches have served under him. We have had 1.

 

[guruisatiger]

I think we need an assistant coach with a track record of coaching sides with good ball-movement. If they know how to deliver a ball inside 50 that would be a bonus too.

Craig Jennings???

 

[Rioli8217]

Craig Jennings???

It would be great but does he still coach?

Brenton Sanderson could help too. He was the ball movement and forwards coach in 2018 at Collingwood when they had that great ball movement that carved us up in the prelim.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Any injury updates ?

Broad/ Vlastuin/Nank/KMac/Pickett

 

[UntamedTiger]

So what i have learned is we still must have conspiracy nuts here who think Blake Carracalla coached the first flag, not Hardwick, but are still gonna struggle to explain how we won 2019 and 2020.
Also, Tom Lynch (who kicked more goals than Jack in seasons 2019 and 2020) now can no longer play even though it was clear he was carrying an injury the first half of the year. But, because he's on big coin so he should go.
The fact we lost Fly bags, Leppa, and our strength and conditioning coach in one off season is apparently irrelevant. Add to the fact we lost $100k in the soft cap and have been coaching one coach down therefore spreading the load across less people, nah, that shouldn't impact them. Dimma should just coach better.
Then we also have have had our worst consistent injury run in years, we had basically our midfield wiped (plus Lynch) and now we have had our defence wiped including losing the best player in the comp (from the midfield/forward line) around 8/9 players on average per game - half a starting line up and people still think we should be "kicking arse".
Finally, no VFL last year and now due to injury and covid (disrupted season), people think kids who are still trying to learn and develop should be coming in ready made and dominating. Yeah, makes sense.
So, we should sack the coach who rebuilt the club "from the worst list since Fitzroy on it's deathbed" to a 3 flag dynasty team because it's clear he "can't coach". Yeah, well thought out stuff people.

Happy for anyone to dispute me on the above and tell me i am wrong. Have at it.

Firstly, a small correction, Caracella was at the club in 2019. If I recall, it was announced just as the finals were to commence, that he was leaving the club. But remained for the finals.

What I find bewildering is the current state of the footy department. Caracella left, but we still had Leppa and Fly, whilst Kingsley came on board. Yet, at the end of 2020, they let Leppa and Fly leave without a suitable replacement(s). Why? I agree with you, they were both a HUGE loss. They were senior, knowledgeable and experienced coaches, with successful playing backgrounds. I acknowledge the changes to the soft cap. Surely though, this impacted ALL clubs. However, some clubs have strengthened their footy departments.

We all know the 2016 review highlighted the fact that Dimma needed some mature and experienced assistants. The club makes the necessary changes, and we all know the results. Yet, we allow the footy department 2021 setup to resemble 2016. IMO, it’s no coincidence that on and off field, we look a lot like 2016. I appreciate the emotions between winning and losing, injuries and the blatantly obvious rule changes to undermine our playing style. But from what I have seen, the team no longer exudes that buzz, happy, smiley, caring, sharing, etc that was a feature of the team these last 4 yrs.


That’s my two bobs worth.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Miller in for Garthwaite - Garth tries his heart out but we already know what he can/can’t produce at the level. Let’s see how Miller goes.
Cumberland in for Aarts/Castagna- pretty obvious, give Noah a taste while his confidence is high.
I also wouldn’t be against giving Mansell a game as a small forward. Played there plenty as a junior and his pressure would be elite. If it doesn’t work we lose nothing. He’s already earnt a contract extension and we know what he brings down back.

So Garth plays on a bloke that doesn’t kick a goal, and indeed barely touched the footy and you want him dropped? Yep, has limitations but he’s effective. Previous week, yes, Rata kicked 4 but the ball was flooding in there and he only had what? 6 touches. I’m no huge fan of Garth but he’s doing alright in my opinion

 

[Bojangles17]

i reckon i could line up the grog squad with 21 shots and they'd kick more than 6 ,,,,ffs , i would have rather us kick 6G 1 , i could live with that

 

[Bojangles17]

Balta has point of difference in comparison to Garth.

Closing speed, athleticism, contested marking, one-on-one ability, athleticism. Garth is an honest toiler but doesn't have those same abilities - and that's fine. He's new Dave, Noah is new Alex.

I can see us moving forward with Noah and Garth as our key defensive book-ends, but the issue will be the supporting cast as Dyl and Dave start to decline.

Remember how good Noah was in Rd.1 v Carlton, with a full support cast around him? Yes he dropped off as the season cont'd, but he was more exposed w/out Vlas n Grimes.

mate you don't need to dignify that contention with a response, im not gonna criticize garth, he tries his guts out , but he simply aint got the gifts noah does, hes quick a nice booming kick , backs himself to mark and strong as an ox

 

[OhDustinMartin]

What have you got against Astbury. Still a rock solid footballer, sure he is no Balta, not many are, but he is still doing what he has always done. He also has averaged more disposals and marks than Balta this season. Wouldn't be surprised if Astbury also carried that achilles for a while earlier in the season.

s**t no, I love Dave. Just injury-prone, and likely to retire in the next 2-3 years. Thinking about the future. he's a gun and a toiler but as you say doesn't have the unique gifts Balta does.

 

[SunshineBoy]

We could look at Clarko for example.

• Damien Hardwick, Richmond (2010–present, 2017, 2019 and 2020 premiership coach)
• Leon Cameron, Greater Western Sydney (2014–present)
• Adam Simpson, West Coast (2014–present, 2018 premiership coach)
• Luke Beveridge, Western Bulldogs (2015–present, 2016 premiership coach)
• Brendon Bolton, Carlton (2016–2019)
• Chris Fagan, Brisbane Lions (2017–present)
• Brett Ratten, St Kilda (2019 caretaker coach, 2020–present)
• Sam Mitchell, Hawthorn (2022–)

8 senior coaches have served under him. We have had 1.

And we can go back further Hafey produced what was it 18 senior coaches, Parkin, Sheedy, it’s an indictment that in what is 14 years Hardwick has none, or have I missed someone?

 

[Barnard]

So Garth plays on a bloke that doesn’t kick a goal, and indeed barely touched the footy and you want him dropped? Yep, has limitations but he’s effective. Previous week, yes, Rata kicked 4 but the ball was flooding in there and he only had what? 6 touches. I’m no huge fan of Garth but he’s doing alright in my opinion

So next year when broad,vlastuin and Balta return do you Garth will be playing? Also do you think he is our long term Astbury replacement? I admire Garthwaite for his effort, the bloke never gives up. I just don’t think he is ever going to be a best 22 type player.

 

[tigerfan1961]

So next year when broad,vlastuin and Balta return do you Garth will be playing? Also do you think he is our long term Astbury replacement? I admire Garthwaite for his effort, the bloke never gives up. I just don’t think he is ever going to be a best 22 type player.

I’m not fully sold on him myself but I’d let him play out the year and see how he goes? He’s pretty solid, I think it’s that awful kicking style that casts doubts on the poor bloke

 

[prodigy1311]

i hope i am wrong but i don't see a turnaround in fortunes in 2022. maybe 2025
Our game plan is taxing and the players who took us to glory are now older, less hungrier. injury prone
the new rule has effected us and we don't have a lot of skillful players which is now a must
Time for tough calls and getting games to all kids. draft a few more
phase out the seniors over the next 2.
play the kids from round 1 next season. send the mini rebuild message to supporters and let us have a good look to the future with the kids

I always thought 2021 will be the last chance but it didn't pan out and i can't see us doing any damage in 2022.

 

[Aeons]

I agree, but we don't really have a tagger. Lambie's not strong enough and Fridge doesn't have a big enough tank. So who would it be?

I reckon Parker would make a great tagger..

 

[SweetD]

why does garthwaite kick like that

 

[SweetD]

I reckon Parker would make a great tagger..

waste of parker

 

[tiger_tough]

Craig Jennings???

Wasn't he the coach at the dees when they were woeful? Pass.

 

[YeOldTiger]

So Garth plays on a bloke that doesn’t kick a goal, and indeed barely touched the footy and you want him dropped? Yep, has limitations but he’s effective. Previous week, yes, Rata kicked 4 but the ball was flooding in there and he only had what? 6 touches. I’m no huge fan of Garth but he’s doing alright in my opinion

Big decision on Garth coming at the end of the year. Garth, Miller and BiggieSmalls are it as far as backup behind Balta, Astbury (?) Grimes and Broad. It's going to be interesting to see if we persist with them developing or trade in someone.

 

[tiger_tough]

out: Chol, Aarts, Castagna, Ross, Garthwaite
in: CCJ, MRJ, Cumberland, Vlastuin, Broad

Time to look forward.

 

[YeOldTiger]

And we can go back further Hafey produced what was it 18 senior coaches, Parkin, Sheedy, it’s an indictment that in what is 14 years Hardwick has none, or have I missed someone?

No but you have missed the fact that Dimma is still mid career. Harvey, Parkin and Sheedy were all career coaches who coached for 25+ years so hardly a fair comparison.

I'd love it if someone could name Hafey's 18 senior coaches. That wb pretty cool to see.

 

[Bojangles17]

I’m not fully sold on him myself but I’d let him play out the year and see how he goes? He’s pretty solid, I think it’s that awful kicking style that casts doubts on the poor bloke

It does slow him down you know , I said before , you could hard boil an egg in the time the ball goes hand to foot , cost him last couple of games

 

[tigerfan1961]

It does slow him down you know , I said before , you could hard boil an egg in the time the ball goes hand to foot , cost him last couple of games

Yep I agree but hard to change once it’s ingrained, just like me trying to change my golf swing, which has been ordinary for 30 years

 

[Bojangles17]

Yep I agree but hard to change once it’s ingrained, just like me trying to change my golf swing, which has been ordinary for 30 years

Tell me about it