Autopsy Round 10, 2021: Hawks get beat by Blues

[hamohawk1]

Thinking about this game again, we had our chances didn't we.

 

[grumbleguts]

It's now got nothing at all to do with what we'd get, and everything to do with moving the club forward and the team.

Pick 20 and let Worpel go back to his role - take it.

Mitchell is 28 so won't change now, yes he's great as a pure centreman, but if he can't stop himself from chasing stats, in other words sacrifice part of his game for the TEAM, by running to where the ball ain't to open up space for the runners and/or lay some shepherds then it just contuines to be the Tom Mitchell football club, at the expense of the side and other players. Fixing this up is worth more then any effing draft pick ever will be, but if he can't and we can't fix it then he can get his 40 possies elsewhere while O'Meara, Worpel and others share the load as a team that are also accountable.


Here we go stats - I don't bother with people whose first line of attack is stats - footy is footy not stats. How many Brownlow medalist are there from utter sh*t teams and clubs? It's a meaningless award pretty much because the best possie winner in a sh*t team is going to get the votes. Stats pffft ........

I've also never said he's not busting his arse, so go put words in someone else mouth mate - but maybe he needs to bust it unselfishly by creating space around the ground for the few skilled players we have, rather then clogging it up.

I'm not ignoring anything buddy. He's 28 he ain't gonna get better and it's about where we are now, not when he won a brownlow. Do you think he's helping Worps or hindering ? This about team balance mate, not stats and one man.

Um... You DO realise he said "He's not as good as his brownlow year yeah? Strange post is very strange.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

We‘ve been embarrassing most of the year. My point being, I think we are in a better position , longer term.

Hill, Hannerbury,Jones,Carlisle, Crouch.....etc......

We can turn it around quicker than the Aints.

Hanners, Ryder, Frawley and Carlisle won't be on the list next year or the year after.

There's no shying away from the fact they've been dreadful this season - which highlights how bad that hiding they gave us was.

They have enough young(er) players to carry them forward though. I suspect they will bounce back next season and be a lot more competitive.

 

[TylerDurden]

Straight to tribunal.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Straight to tribunal.

Oh, they’re going to run with the “potential to cause serious injury” this week. Of course.

 

[PT Bar None]

Oh, they’re going to run with the “potential to cause serious injury” this week. Of course.

You can set your watch by it.

I'm more than OK with blokes throwing high elbows getting rubbed out as a matter of course - but who was that Richmond bloke in round 1/2 that looked back, checked the head position, then threw the high elbow and only got fined? Grimes?

Yeah, I know. Round 1/2 was practically a different sport, so can't compare.

 

[Yardie]

Oh, they’re going to run with the “potential to cause serious injury” this week. Of course.

Next week Cyril will get 3-4 weeks for attending the game in Darwin.....

 

[Brishawk]

It's now got nothing at all to do with what we'd get, and everything to do with moving the club forward and the team.

Pick 20 and let Worpel go back to his role - take it.

Mitchell is 28 so won't change now, yes he's great as a pure centreman, but if he can't stop himself from chasing stats, in other words sacrifice part of his game for the TEAM, by running to where the ball ain't to open up space for the runners and/or lay some shepherds then it just contuines to be the Tom Mitchell football club, at the expense of the side and other players. Fixing this up is worth more then any effing draft pick ever will be, but if he can't and we can't fix it then he can get his 40 possies elsewhere while O'Meara, Worpel and others share the load as a team that are also accountable.


Here we go stats - I don't bother with people whose first line of attack is stats - footy is footy not stats. How many Brownlow medalist are there from utter sh*t teams and clubs? It's a meaningless award pretty much because the best possie winner in a sh*t team is going to get the votes. Stats pffft ........

I've also never said he's not busting his arse, so go put words in someone else mouth mate - but maybe he needs to bust it unselfishly by creating space around the ground for the few skilled players we have, rather then clogging it up.

I'm not ignoring anything buddy. He's 28 he ain't gonna get better and it's about where we are now, not when he won a brownlow. Do you think he's helping Worps or hindering ? This about team balance mate, not stats and one man.

You said he chases possessions in the backline. Clearly he gets kicks all over the field. He is more likely helping Worpel than hurting him. Worpel was a one dimensional player at the beginning of the year. His improvement has been massive. Worpel can now stand on a player and still win the ball when it enters his area. Compare this with early season and last year where he would go the ball, go to ground, and his opponent would end up free on the outside.

 

[eldorado]

Has to be at least a week- can't tell from that whether it was chest, neck or head but it's a terrible look either way.

I reckon 3 down to 2

 

[rei154]

I reckon 3 down to 2

I'd be happy with that- if this occurred a week or two later this would just about guarantee DGB coming in for some senior action I reckon.

 

[LMGjr]

You said he chases possessions in the backline. Clearly he gets kicks all over the field. He is more likely helping Worpel than hurting him. Worpel was a one dimensional player at the beginning of the year. His improvement has been massive. Worpel can now stand on a player and still win the ball when it enters his area. Compare this with early season and last year where he would go the ball, go to ground, and his opponent would end up free on the outside.

Yes he chases possies mate, my case is simple - I'd prefer those handball receives to be given to Impy, Scrim, Day, Saunders, Cj etc to get the ball moving quickly with pace on it - Mitch is a superb centreman, let's limit him to that and getting him out of the "road" when we are attacking/transitioning or any play that requires a flat fast kick or a running play resulting in a flat fast kick up the ground - that's not Mitchels go and he himself should know this and play accordingly, instead of just chasing the ball around the field free wheeling. Save some energy mate and let your teammates do something. Ablett Jr could get away with it because he was twice as skillful on the outside.

I don't want to lose this guy mate - I've said as much in other posts that we need to surround him with better players, but if he can't back up and let his teammates play to their strengths, such as those handball receives going to our running HBF instead of him putting himself in those postions and calling for it it's hurting the overall side and it's hurting long term as it's robbing possies off Scrim, Impy, even CJ, all of whom should be charging off the back flank.

None of this takes away from him being a class centerman. I didn't think what I was getting at could be so misread, but it was and is, so hopefully this clears it up a bit. But people read it and get their backs up about one word or one sentence or something before reading what is actually being said.

 

[MightyHawks]

We seemed to do better with lower kicks inside 50m rather than bombs.

Problem is when we have the ball 80m or 90m out there dont seem to be options 60m out so they go long.

As for Hanrahan I thought he did ok. Hit the post twice so nearly had 2 goals, and a run and chase led to a Morrison goal. Im not sure if people are looking for a Cyril or Poppy replacement, but he was far from poor.

The real problem is our team is stacked with good not great players. The challenge is whether Clarko can lift them, or if good is their celing.

Now would it be ok to have a team that had say 6 players who are good enough to be best 16 players in a top 4 side and then 15-20 others who are never going to be good enough to be best 16 in a top side, but are good enough to be ranked 17-30 on a list?

This hypothetical team probably doesn't win many games, but if you can nail 6-8 draft picks over a 3 year period (and maybe a free agent) do you find that the not good enough players get pushed out by the new potential stars coming in, and the remaining serviceable toilers are a whole lot more serviceable in a better team? As a bonus you might just find that 2 or 3 plodders on the list develop into much better players than you thought?

Yes you don't want to have a bunch of list cloggers, but if you only play kids then do the good kids actually develop...

 

[HairyO]

Now would it be ok to have a team that had say 6 players who are good enough to be best 16 players in a top 4 side and then 15-20 others who are never going to be good enough to be best 16 in a top side, but are good enough to be ranked 17-30 on a list?

This hypothetical team probably doesn't win many games, but if you can nail 6-8 draft picks over a 3 year period (and maybe a free agent) do you find that the not good enough players get pushed out by the new potential stars coming in, and the remaining serviceable toilers are a whole lot more serviceable in a better team? As a bonus you might just find that 2 or 3 plodders on the list develop into much better players than you thought?

Yes you don't want to have a bunch of list cloggers, but if you only play kids then do the good kids actually develop...

We need an aggressive / attacking mid, and to sort out our tall forwards (2 of Kosi, Jeka and Lewis) and to find 2 small forwards

Ruck and defence are looking good.

We have been competitive for large parts of most of our games this year. We are not so far behind.

 

[MightyHawks]

We need an aggressive / attacking mid, and to sort out our tall forwards (2 of Kosi, Jeka and Lewis) and to find 2 small forwards

Ruck and defence are looking good.

We have been competitive for large parts of most of our games this year. We are not so far behind.

Agree we aren't as far away as it appears

Add Day/DBG/Sicily into backline and it'll make a difference

Need continued strong improvement from 4 to 5 young players - don't care which ones - any out of Kosi/Jeka/Lewis/Brockman/Morris/Greaves/Downie/Mitchell/CJ/Reeves

Then nail our 3 early picks in the 2021 draft

 

[HairyO]

Agree we aren't as far away as it appears

Add Day/DBG/Sicily into backline and it'll make a difference

Need continued strong improvement from 4 to 5 young players - don't care which ones - any out of Kosi/Jeka/Lewis/Brockman/Morris/Greaves/Downie/Mitchell/CJ/Reeves

Then nail our 3 early picks in the 2021 draft

Yep. There are quite a few kids competing for spots. Its a good place to be.

 

[Stottzy]

Are you suggesting we trade him? He's 28 and coming off a busted leg. We'd get a pick around 20 for him. We're better off keeping.
[/QUOTE]

If a trade was on offer and reasonable, I wouldn't hesitate. If he can't get back to 2018 form, then trade him when he has some value.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Saints absolutely embarrassed us a few weeks ago.

Yes of course they did but they are supposed to be challenging. The fact they are getting bounced by 12 goals plus everytime they lose tells u where they are at. If things dont go their way their players just give up. We have had losses but i think the st kilda game was the only game where we completely gave up

 

[Stottzy]

I’m hearing you brother (sorry if it’s sister). Very frustrating supporting us at the moment but I find the criticism of Mitchell a bit surprising and a little over the top. The guy is coming back from a massive leg injury and is just starting to clunk through the gears with a body that has had to learn not be timid. He is a workhorse amassing a stack of possession and then having to deliver the pill to a bunch of young bucks running around like a bunch of headless chooks (enough animal metaphors?). Mitchell’s disposal count will be more efficient when our emerging young talent () improves around him. Opposition players might then have more than two Hawthorn players to think about shutting down every

Yeah over possession and a lack of speed going forward is our biggest issue. To be top 5 in the league for possessions, but last for inside 50's means we are just wasting it.

Frustrates me everytime he gets it, Mitchell immediately looks left and right. If this is his role in the "system" then it doesn't offer much.

 

[grumbleguts]

Has to be at least a week- can't tell from that whether it was chest, neck or head but it's a terrible look either way.

For the flop or the hit?

 

[falcons2]

Oh, they’re going to run with the “potential to cause serious injury” this week. Of course.

"From the MCG conditions of entry for AFL
GENERAL CONDITIONS OF ENTRY You agree as follows: 1. from the time of entry .... the Venue; 2. not to bring into the Venue: (a) any photographic, video or audio recording equipment for any purpose other than private non-commercial purposes ...."

This is the AFL's own rule. I wonder if they will apply it

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

"From the MCG conditions of entry for AFL
GENERAL CONDITIONS OF ENTRY You agree as follows: 1. from the time of entry .... the Venue; 2. not to bring into the Venue: (a) any photographic, video or audio recording equipment for any purpose other than private non-commercial purposes ...."

This is the AFL's own rule. I wonder if they will apply it

Taking photos and video from your mobile phone would be considered private non-commercial purposes I would suggest.

There’s no stopping it.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Oh, they’re going to run with the “potential to cause serious injury” this week. Of course.

But it's "brutal vision"...!

 

[falcons2]

Taking photos and video from your mobile phone would be considered private non-commercial purposes I would suggest.

There’s no stopping it.

Agree, but is it being used for a private non-commercial purpose?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Agree, but is it being used for a private non-commercial purpose?

Social media is non-commercial as long as you’re not asking for money for your content, I’d have thought.

 

[falcons2]

Social media is non-commercial as long as you’re not asking for money for your content, I’d have thought.

I have no idea about legalities but video is being used for a purpose other than "private non-commercial purpose".
Be interesting how it plays out.
By that video you can't even tell if contact was made or Walsh took a dive. But you can see Walsh run 20m to instigate contact with Hartigan. McKay certainly didn't think much of it.
But I think AFL will get all upset about image of the game crap and go hard.