Autopsy Round 21, 2021: St.Kilda v Sydney *PRIDE GAME* *COFFIELD 50TH*

[plugger66]

this snippit on the swans game day thread was interesting. Looks like things have changed.

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That is hilarious. Bedford is the team manager at Ormond which is my club. I wouldn’t believe a thing he says. And watching footy with him in the most painful experience ever. He thinks every team he supports is dudded by the umpires. If you listened to him during a game he would want 90 frees for and none against. You should hear him have a go at me when I’m umpiring the seconds. Never got a decision right unless it’s a free to Ormond. And I was at the Ormond luncheon recently when Lloyd spoke and there was no mention of king. Lloyd was actually very good though. By the Bedford it bomber as he is known is a mate of mine. An annoying mate who tells stories

 

[Bill Mohr]

Also, Dunstan has proven himself to be an AFL level midfielder, but that doesn't mean we should keep him at all costs. He's got all the same limitations he always has had, and he doesn't get a game ahead of a fit Gresham or Hannebury. Any compensation we get for him would be a bonus, and he would go with my absolute best wishes.

Didnt like his game, he was nervy, fumbled the ball and dropped a mark he should have swallowed. His kicking was ordinary. Picked up a few graabs late.

 

[gringo2011]

Nope. Just doesn’t flow off the tongue…

It's a political correction.

 

[gringo2011]

Also, Dunstan has proven himself to be an AFL level midfielder, but that doesn't mean we should keep him at all costs. He's got all the same limitations he always has had, and he doesn't get a game ahead of a fit Gresham or Hannebury. Any compensation we get for him would be a bonus, and he would go with my absolute best wishes.

His limitations were production....improved, low time on ground..... improved, disposal efficiency..... improved. To me you don't let he guy that is second in your coaches votes just walk out over $100,000 or so. He's played 10 games or something and is easily in second place. Getting a game in front of fit Hannerbury is like saying he wouldn't play in front of Spiderman. If he goes and becomes a gun at another club we will be looking absolutely idiotic, especially if he gets Carlton above us on the ladder. We still lack quality players and everyone wants to chip away further after one win against the odds.

 

[gringo2011]

Getting him out of the back line and into a position that plays to his strengths was the key. There's a lesson there for a few others.

Also not writing kids off after form slumps. Richo shelved him instead of trying to build him back up.

 

[plugger66]

His limitations were production....improved, low time on ground..... improved, disposal efficiency..... improved. To me you don't let he guy that is second in your coaches votes just walk out over $100,000 or so. He's played 10 games or something and is easily in second place. Getting a game in front of fit Hannerbury is like saying he wouldn't play in front of Spiderman. If he goes and becomes a gun at another club we will be looking absolutely idiotic, especially if he gets Carlton above us on the ladder. We still lack quality players and everyone wants to chip away further after one win against the odds.

The difference between him and both billings and Ross is we have a like for like replacement. How does bytel get a game apart from sub if Dunstan is there. The simple answer is he doesn’t and then people whinge about not playing bytel. Yes there is difference in ability at the moment but we didn’t think that in the first 8 rounds. Another pre season and I believe bytel will nearly match Dunstan. He has already passed him in the ability to use the ball. Anyway I think it will be out of our hands. I think Dunstan is smart enough to see the writing on the wall and leave.

 

[The Punter]

Also not writing kids off after form slumps. Richo shelved him instead of trying to build him back up.

I think you'll find it was Ratten who shelved him. McKenzie played 14 of the 16 games Richo coached in 2019, then under Ratten played in one of his first 25 matches he coached.

On Dunstan, I'd glad he got back in on form, and it went some way to restoring selection integrity at the club. He's played well and it has contributed to four wins after the bye. But we all know what Dunstan is, and very little of that has changed. His main improvement in TOG and disposal numbers happened over 2017-2019, and he still suffers from problems with his disposal and decision making. I'll concede Hannebury was a poor example as the eternal mirage at the selection table, but to think Dunstan gets a game, with all things being equal, ahead of a fit Jade Gresham or Hunter Clark, is probably folly. I think Steele, Crouch, Jones and Ross are all better bets as inside mids (although I'll concede Ross plays more outside and also has limitations), with Gresham and Clark to return, and minutes needed for Jack Bytel. If gets a better offer he should take it - I think it will play out a lot like the last days of Jack Newnes at St Kilda (we want him to stay, but only at a certain price).

 

[plugger66]

Also not writing kids off after form slumps. Richo shelved him instead of trying to build him back up.

Do we rewrite history on here. I’m pretty sure people claimed McKenzie was richos love child when he continued to play him. Now he dropped him to quickly. No wonder some coaches get worse over a period of time. At the time criticised for playing to much now criticised for dropping to early. Dunstan will be next

 

[Premium]

The S in SANFL stands for St Kilda

We would be getting the information about the through Gallagher - I guess , we know played for the Crows but he played well over 200 games for Norwood and won the best and fairest a couple times and was captain , he even came out of retirement and won a flag for them.
With his strong ties through the SANFL with former team mates that are now coaches he would be getting a run down on all the players with potential.
The best part about these players is they are not 18yr olds and they can more less play in there first year.

Once again credit has to be given to the recruiting team , but we all know not everyone will be a player capable of making.
Robbie Young was one.

 

[Diehard Saint]

It's a political correction.

Uh yes, I gathered.
A bit like pregnant person, chestfeeding and people who menstruate.
All a load of bollocks!

 

[sammm]

I think you'll find it was Ratten who shelved him. McKenzie played 14 of the 16 games Richo coached in 2019, then under Ratten played in one of his first 25 matches he coached.

On Dunstan, I'd glad he got back in on form, and it went some way to restoring selection integrity at the club. He's played well and it has contributed to four wins after the bye. But we all know what Dunstan is, and very little of that has changed. His main improvement in TOG and disposal numbers happened over 2017-2019, and he still suffers from problems with his disposal and decision making. I'll concede Hannebury was a poor example as the eternal mirage at the selection table, but to think Dunstan gets a game, with all things being equal, ahead of a fit Jade Gresham or Hunter Clark, is probably folly. I think Steele, Crouch, Jones and Ross are all better bets as inside mids (although I'll concede Ross plays more outside and also has limitations), with Gresham and Clark to return, and minutes needed for Jack Bytel. If gets a better offer he should take it - I think it will play out a lot like the last days of Jack Newnes at St Kilda (we want him to stay, but only at a certain price).

yes thats becuase Mckenzie was horrible playing under Richo. I couldn't figure out why we gave him a 3 year contract extension. This is the first year that he has been a hell of alot better.

 

[Premium]

I think you'll find it was Ratten who shelved him. McKenzie played 14 of the 16 games Richo coached in 2019, then under Ratten played in one of his first 25 matches he coached.

On Dunstan, I'd glad he got back in on form, and it went some way to restoring selection integrity at the club. He's played well and it has contributed to four wins after the bye. But we all know what Dunstan is, and very little of that has changed. His main improvement in TOG and disposal numbers happened over 2017-2019, and he still suffers from problems with his disposal and decision making. I'll concede Hannebury was a poor example as the eternal mirage at the selection table, but to think Dunstan gets a game, with all things being equal, ahead of a fit Jade Gresham or Hunter Clark, is probably folly. I think Steele, Crouch, Jones and Ross are all better bets as inside mids (although I'll concede Ross plays more outside and also has limitations), with Gresham and Clark to return, and minutes needed for Jack Bytel. If gets a better offer he should take it - I think it will play out a lot like the last days of Jack Newnes at St Kilda (we want him to stay, but only at a certain price).

McKenzie has certainly picked his game up , he always had the guts and endurance but at times just got lost in play when Richardson had him playing as a lockdown defender , I don't know where Ratten has him playing but he has been a revelation and he shows the grit and pressure the team needs to bring every week.

I don't know where he plays but there has to be a spot for him on the bench every week if he keeps doing what he doing rotating through the wing , half back or where ever he has been playing.

 

[Premium]

yes thats becuase Mckenzie was horrible playing under Richo. I couldn't figure out why we gave him a 3 year contract extension. This is the first year that he has been a hell of alot better.

Most probably wasn't suited to the role he had been given and once given a new role has grabbed it.

 

[Noidenous]

Uh yes, I gathered.
A bit like pregnant person, chestfeeding and people who menstruate.
All a load of bollocks!

Birthing meat vessel.

 

[BrutThough]

Most probably wasn't suited to the role he had been given and once given a new role has grabbed it.

He played very well in the 2nd half of 2018 in that small defender role but just couldn't back it up in 2019. He now looks like a very natural wing and is actually showing all those attributes listed in his draft profile.

Some players take time, and DMac is one of the lucky ones who he was given more time than he deserved but it is now paying off.

 

[SaintBilly]

One of DMacs best games in the Richo era was the Gold Coast game where Gresh kicked the winner from the boundary. Saved Richo’s career and gave him a three year deal lol

 

[Xxxx66]

He played very well in the 2nd half of 2018 in that small defender role but just couldn't back it up in 2019. He now looks like a very natural wing and is actually showing all those attributes listed in his draft profile.

Some players take time, and DMac is one of the lucky ones who he was given more time than he deserved but it is now paying off.

At 59 games, he is just maturing.
He was never a small defender and struggled to execute under that sort of pressure.

 

[aussierulesrules]

He would cost us one or more of our compo picks though wouldn't he?
For the money it would cost we may as well try and keep Dunny.

I'm not for trying to shortcut a premiership with a 29yo recruit. We still need too much development for the cherry on top type player.

Given the fact we finished 5th last year, and were highly competitive against the eventual premiers in the semi (despite being much further from full strength than them), and didn’t have Parker, or Crouch, or Higgins, or Highmore, or Wood, or Sharman, or Gresham for half the year, while King, Byrnes, Bytel and Connolly were babies, and The Great Mackenzie didn’t play a single game, I don’t have any great issue with adding someone who’s 29yo, if they’re good enough, fill a need and bring a tonne of leadership, experience and so-on.

With King in particular (and to a lesser extent Clark, Coffield, Byrnes, Bytel and co) having another preseason under their belts, I don’t see any reason why we couldn’t be right back up the pointy end again next year, if we added a Parker to the mix.

As for him costing us a compo pick for say Dunstan, that doesn’t bother me at all, as he’s a significant upgrade on him.

It would be like if he was contracted and Sydney came to us and offered us Parker in a straight swap for Dunstan. We’d bite their hand off to do that deal. Same if they came to us and offered us Parker for a mid-30’s pick.

 

[gringo2011]

The difference between him and both billings and Ross is we have a like for like replacement. How does bytel get a game apart from sub if Dunstan is there. The simple answer is he doesn’t and then people whinge about not playing bytel. Yes there is difference in ability at the moment but we didn’t think that in the first 8 rounds. Another pre season and I believe bytel will nearly match Dunstan. He has already passed him in the ability to use the ball. Anyway I think it will be out of our hands. I think Dunstan is smart enough to see the writing on the wall and leave.

By getting 37 possessions in the VFL and pushing Crouch or him out.

 

[sunny3193]

Got his baulk onto his left side going well, other clubs will wake up to that soon enough but for the moment he is breaking the lines which a few others have not been able to do.

Did you know that he is a natural right hand baulk?
I didn’t either.
Just goes to show how much I know.

 

[plugger66]

By getting 37 possessions in the VFL and pushing Crouch or him out.

He did that in his only ever vfl game. Sometimes you bite the bullet on players. This time I’m pretty sure the player will bite the bullet on the club.

 

[gringo2011]

I think you'll find it was Ratten who shelved him. McKenzie played 14 of the 16 games Richo coached in 2019, then under Ratten played in one of his first 25 matches he coached.

On Dunstan, I'd glad he got back in on form, and it went some way to restoring selection integrity at the club. He's played well and it has contributed to four wins after the bye. But we all know what Dunstan is, and very little of that has changed. His main improvement in TOG and disposal numbers happened over 2017-2019, and he still suffers from problems with his disposal and decision making. I'll concede Hannebury was a poor example as the eternal mirage at the selection table, but to think Dunstan gets a game, with all things being equal, ahead of a fit Jade Gresham or Hunter Clark, is probably folly. I think Steele, Crouch, Jones and Ross are all better bets as inside mids (although I'll concede Ross plays more outside and also has limitations), with Gresham and Clark to return, and minutes needed for Jack Bytel. If gets a better offer he should take it - I think it will play out a lot like the last days of Jack Newnes at St Kilda (we want him to stay, but only at a certain price).

Well as second on coaches votes suggest Clark would be getting a game over him on potential not selection integrity. I think he's the best player of all three since he came back. Ross doesn't really have a proper role even. Gresham has had 2 seasons lost through injury so really getting close to Hanners and probably a bonus more than a key plank. His disposal and decision making are much better..

 

[plugger66]

Did you know that he is a natural right hand baulk?
I didn’t either.
Just goes to show how much I know.

Yes people get confused thinking because he is a left footer he would baulk that way. It’s an excellent skill to have. Probably more good luck than skill to be honest

 

[plugger66]

Well as second on coaches votes suggest Clark would be getting a game over him on potential not selection integrity. I think he's the best player of all three since he came back. Ross doesn't really have a proper role even. Gresham has had 2 seasons lost through injury so really getting close to Hanners and probably a bonus more than a key plank. His disposal and decision making are much better..

Gresh is nothing like hanners in the injury department. Soft tissue compared to unlucky. Dunstan is certainly replaceable. The coaches votes won’t be a reason he will want to stay.

 

[The Punter]

Well as second on coaches votes suggest Clark would be getting a game over him on potential not selection integrity. I think he's the best player of all three since he came back. Ross doesn't really have a proper role even. Gresham has had 2 seasons lost through injury so really getting close to Hanners and probably a bonus more than a key plank. His disposal and decision making are much better..

On Clark, there is a level he can get to and has gotten to that Dunstan cannot get to. Let's call it "we're winning this game, boys". Clark did it against the GC last season.

Taking nothing away from Dunstan, but Clark is a better footballer, and an inside mid. Just because you have class doesn't mean you aren't inside - ask Nick Dal Santo.