Autopsy Round 3, 2023: Hawks skin the Roos

[FB19]

A bit surprised Scrimmers didn't sneak in for a vote, he was excellent for us on the weekend.

Agreed. He is vital for our movement from half back. Personally I had him for 2 votes behind day Moore brockman I felt Sicily got a lot of cheapies

 

[Scooter_1968]

Not a fan of Jack's work I take it?

Personally I had him in my top five players for the match.

Our backline looks 100% better when he is down there IMOH.

I too thought he had an excellent game

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tommyk72]

A bit surprised Scrimmers didn't sneak in for a vote, he was excellent for us on the weekend.

Simon Crawshay I'm beginning to wonder if you ARE Scrimmers given your constant advocacy.

That being said, I think he did have an excellent game on the weekend. I probably would have had him in ahead of Frost, but Frost did do an excellent job on Larkey, so can see how he sneaks in.

 

[grumbleguts]

Cam McKenzie 9 tackle attempts for 9 tackles.

 

[tommyk72]

Cam McKenzie 9 tackle attempts for 9 tackles.

Disappointing. Needs to try and tackle more often.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Simon Crawshay I'm beginning to wonder if you ARE Scrimmers given your constant advocacy.

That being said, I think he did have an excellent game on the weekend. I probably would have had him in ahead of Frost, but Frost did do an excellent job on Larkey, so can see how he sneaks in.

I mean Simon probably thinks i have something against Jack. Far from it spoken to him multiple times. Even told him he is a star in the making. Great game from Scrim on the weekend. Yet there were atleast 5 or 6 players from our side that had more impact. Doesnt take away anything from his performance. He did make a difference in that side. We lined up largely how we did early in 2022 in the backline

 

[KermitJagger]

Not a fan of Jack's work I take it?

Personally I had him in my top five players for the match.

Our backline looks 100% better when he is down there IMOH.

It's like you've got a point to prove and won't stop til you've made it.

Scrimshaw was good, he still played loose on his man and allowed North targets especially in the 3rd and 4th quarters so his game wasn't perfect. He was in a big group of players who probably could have gotten votes but I can understand why they went with players like CJ who had bigger moments, or Frost who played a more difficult role.

Sicily getting 5 from one coach is a bit of a mystery to me, played well but he's definitely played better.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

It may seem that I bang on about Scrimmers a fair bit (and I probably do) but I feel like I need to be his advocate.

He's been good to very good to at times excellent for the Hawks since his first game and I feel like he gets judged very harshly on this forum (perhaps even internally at the club given his suprisingly low finishes in the clubs B&F).

He is also super consistent, and a lack of consistency (even from some of our "star" players like JOM, Chad, etc) over the last 6 years has at times driven me up the wall.

And to be honest all that talk of Jack not being in our best 22 at the start of the year, seriously WT actual F was that all about? Major trigger alert

Rant over you may resume normal programming.

 

[KermitJagger]

It may seem that I bang on about Scrimmers a fair bit (and I probably do) but I feel like I need to be his advocate.

He's been good to very good to at times excellent for the Hawks since his first game and I feel like he gets judged very harshly on this forum (perhaps even internally at the club given his suprisingly low finishes in the clubs B&F).

He is also super consistent, and a lack of consistency (even from some of our "star" players like JOM, Chad, etc) over the last 6 years has at times driven me up the wall.

And to be honest all that talk of Jack not being in our best 22 at the start of the year, seriously WT actual F was that all about? Major trigger alert

Rant over you may resume normal programming.

FFS mate I have no idea how many times it was explained to you that the point wasn't Scrimshaw not being a part of the best 22, it was that it was he wasn't a lock. A lock. Every time you post about this you go back to "WTF Scrimshaw not part of our best 22" - talk about being driven up the wall, imagine trying to explain that point every time you post about Scrimshaw (all the time).

Clearly that point was already proven. He played in the VFL, and I don't care if he was sore or coming back from injury or whatever else because if he was a lock - see Moore, Sicily, Newcombe - he would have come straight back into the seniors. Best 22 locks don't play VFL unless they're coming back from massive injuries and need to prove fitness before big matches, see Rioli in 2014.

Fine, he's in the side now and played well. I love to see that, I want to see that, but it doesn't invalidate any of the concerns you spent the pre-season wilfully ignoring.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Agreed. He is vital for our movement from half back. Personally I had him for 2 votes behind day Moore brockman I felt Sicily got a lot of cheapies

Those “cheapies” as you call them, are what set us up.
If he doesn’t get them, we don’t shift the North defence and we don’t win.

 

[HedgeFund]

The success of Frost's game is that Larkey was the 2nd lowest rated player on the field.

Yep - a defender who defended exceptionally well.

Is that such an odd concept?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

FFS mate I have no idea how many times it was explained to you that the point wasn't Scrimshaw not being a part of the best 22, it was that it was he wasn't a lock. A lock. Every time you post about this you go back to "WTF Scrimshaw not part of our best 22" - talk about being driven up the wall, imagine trying to explain that point every time you post about Scrimshaw (all the time).

Clearly that point was already proven. He played in the VFL, and I don't care if he was sore or coming back from injury or whatever else because if he was a lock - see Moore, Sicily, Newcombe - he would have come straight back into the seniors. Best 22 locks don't play VFL unless they're coming back from massive injuries and need to prove fitness before big matches, see Rioli in 2014.

Fine, he's in the side now and played well. I love to see that, I want to see that, but it doesn't invalidate any of the concerns you spent the pre-season wilfully ignoring.

Bit over the top there Kermit.

I do think Scrimmers is a lock in our 22 and his performance in the weekend only solidified my thoughts on that matter . I think you will find he will be in the Yabby votes which means he was a top 5 player coming back from injury, all the traits of a "lock".

Also what really got me with all this talk about Scrimshaw not making our 22 was that the footballing Goliath keeping this gun kid out of the starting 22 was none other than Lachlan Bramble!

Not Peter Dean, not Chris Langford, not Josh Gibson, not Andrew McLeod but Lachlan Bramble. Lachlan Bramble. I'll say that once again because it beats repeating, Lachlan Bramble.

Let's all ponder the wisdom of that decision shall we?

 

[Sixpence]

Bit over the top there Kermit.

Can you blame him? You've taken his initial point out of context and turned it into an argument that others have latched onto and created hysteria over. It really is quite ridiculous to see how many people are perpetuating the "Scrimshaw is/is not in our best 22" argument when no-one actually made that claim to begin with.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Bit over the top there Kermit.

I do think Scrimmers is a lock in our 22 and his performance in the weekend only solidified my thoughts on that matter . I think you will find he will be in the Yabby votes which means he was a top 5 player coming back from injury, all the traits of a "lock".

Also what really got me with all this talk about Scrimshaw not making our 22 was that the footballing Goliath keeping this gun kid out of the starting 22 was none other than Lachlan Bramble!

Not Peter Dean, not Chris Langford, not Josh Gibson, not Andrew McLeod but Lachlan Bramble. Lachlan Bramble. I'll say that once again because it beats repeating, Lachlan Bramble.

Let's all ponder the wisdom of that decision shall we?

See there is no need to belittle one of our other players for the sake of another. Bramble had a fantastic preseason. Selection can only go by what's in front of them. Once the season started more information was available and we are where we are with selection now. Doesn't mean that things won't change in the future.

Edit: There are other players that can defend better and can play Bramble's role in Seamus and Morris. Players can never be too comfortable. Maybe Bramble also gets better over the season

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Can you blame him? You've taken his initial point out of context and turned it into an argument that others have latched onto and created hysteria over. It really is quite ridiculous to see how many people are perpetuating the "Scrimshaw is/is not in our best 22" argument when no-one actually made that claim to begin with.

But that's how this whole saga started, by multiple posters swapping out Scrimshaw for Bramble in their "Best 22 for 2023" thread.

So people were explicitly making an argument that Lachlan Bramble was superior player than Jack Scrimshaw. Based on pre season training which we all know by now means sweet FA once the real stuff starts.

And I don't want to bag Bramble, he definetly showed promising signs his first year, but let's be real that was a pretty out there argument to make based on the data available.

 

[KermitJagger]

But that's how this whole saga started, by multiple posters swapping out Scrimshaw for Bramble in their "Best 22 for 2023" thread.

So people were explicitly making an argument that Lachlan Bramble was superior player than Jack Scrimshaw. Based on pre season training which we all know by now means sweet FA once the real stuff starts.

And I don't want to bag Bramble, he definetly showed promising signs his first year, but let's be real that was a pretty out there argument to make based on the data available.

Firstly that's not what explicitly means, I think you mean tacitly, and secondly I don't remember anyone saying outright (or even implying) that Bramble was a superior player to Scrimshaw. Every time this came up it was explained to you that it seemed like Jack Scrimshaw might not be a lock in the 22 for various reasons, and that it appeared the coaches were favouring Bramble in team selection.

Here are two examples from me, and only because I didn't want to tag anyone else into this fustercluck.

This season he's had multiple defenders elevated to the leadership group ahead of him, played the intra club with the possibles and not the probables, underperformed in a simulation game and now has it all ahead of him to prove that he deserves the spot in the official practice game.

If it boils down to Scrimshaw or someone perhaps a bit less talented that works harder, this coaching outfit will probably go for the harder worker. Scrimshaw is a talented player, and on talent one of the best on our list, but he has a below average work rate and doesn't provide anywhere near the run and spread that others like CJ or Bramble do. He also doesn't fit the balance of the team as much as others might either.

We have quite a few defenders who missed a fair few games last season, Frost, Bramble, CJ, Impey and Morris. They're all players who Sam seemed to want playing if available, and they all don't fit in one side, so it's really up to Scrimshaw to play to his potential and prove he should be there.

This is the point that seems to continually get lost.

I've said a few times now, it really is up to Scrimshaw whether he's in the 22 or not. Obviously the most talented of the players available and you could make a case that he's the second most talented defender on our list, but it's clear that there is something he isn't doing that the coaches are really looking for. Despite better availability than a lot of others, and perceived consistency from a lot of posters here, he's rarely been singled out for praise nor factored heavily in the B&F or in the AFLCA voting.

It's just silly to ignore at this point.

 

[peetoo]

In contrast most best best 22s put Blanck in automatically

 

[TheFourPillars]

In contrast most best best 22s put Blanck in automatically

A perfect example of how things change when games and more information is available

 

[KermitJagger]

A perfect example of how things change when games and more information is available

And how most supporter best 22s are based heavily on how the coaches see the best 22 and the copying of a previous poster's 22 to use as a template as opposed to being selected from a blank slate.

 

[Sixpence]

A perfect example of how things change when games and more information is available

If anything, it's an indication that there is no best 22. You have a squad of players with various different roles that you can mix and match depending on your opposition and current form. The concept is just for fans and media, the club itself only focuses on best fit for a particular match.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Great game by Scrim

 

[TheFourPillars]

BOG from Day

 

[Brant]

Great game by Scrim

My favourite bit here is the 3x bounces.

We've seen him do the other stuff before, but my major gripe with his game is that he doesn't move the ball quick enough (or at all, by run/carry). By gaining an extra 20m before disposing, we can hope 86% of his disposals find teammates forward of Centre, not just on the Wing.

 

[kirbatron]

My favourite bit here is the 3x bounces.

We've seen him do the other stuff before, but my major gripe with his game is that he doesn't move the ball quick enough (or at all, by run/carry). By gaining an extra 20m before disposing, we can hope 86% of his disposals find teammates forward of Centre, not just on the Wing.

as meg ryan said in when harry met sally yes yes yes

i'd love to see a bit of play on & dash from Scrim.

 

[TheFourPillars]

My favourite bit here is the 3x bounces.

We've seen him do the other stuff before, but my major gripe with his game is that he doesn't move the ball quick enough (or at all, by run/carry). By gaining an extra 20m before disposing, we can hope 86% of his disposals find teammates forward of Centre, not just on the Wing.

as meg ryan said in when harry met sally yes yes yes

i'd love to see a bit of play on & dash from Scrim.

Might have been something he was asked to work on perhaps.