Autopsy Round 9 vs Essendon plus changes

[docko911]

Say no more. I rest my case.

What that Jackson's disposals are useless in comparison to a good footballer?

 

[tropicaltiger]

just watched the replay and pulled it to bits and people can think or write what they like, but here is my 2 bobs worth....

Essendon did NOT beat us Jobe Watson did, he towelled up anyone one and everyone who went near him and that included cotchin and deledio, other than that both teams were way off their best....

Other obsevations were:

Bomber coaching staff certainly minimized our strengths and exposed our weak areas, players slipping over regularly costing us at least 2 /3 goals, cotchin and narhas worst offenders.. At least 6 posters most with unlucky bounces or late swerves, couple of costly 50's that looked a bit suss, Essendon kicked a few arsy goals.

Foley and Lonergan still well underdone, Our only good players (pass mark) were our back 6, + vloss, martin, jackson and grigg. Whitey was ok as well.

 

[Tigerdome]

As far as I can see, we havent moved forward this year. we are beating the sides that we are expected to beat, with the sole exception of Carlton, but lets face it - we fell over the line against them. against the better teams, where we hoped to pinch one, we play within our shells and dont raise a squeak.

while there is still plenty of time to turn it around and make the finals, i would say it is pretty disappointing that we still cannot match it with the big boys... we obvisouyl still have at least 1-2 years of development and some further list turnover before we are really ready.

hardwick really should be testing some of the younger blokes that have been drafted over the last 1-2 years to see who can continue to build the quality of the team

also, whats with the shocking lack of ability to tackle??

 

[KiwiTiger]

My highlight of the day was catching up with IDGAF, nut, @RustyTrombone peejay and WATIGE prior to the game.

Haere Ra

 

[SA TIGER]

I was invited to the President's function and decided to take my first trip over in over a year to witness my first Dreamtime encounter at the G. Admittedly, the pre match function nothing short of spectacular and the drinks were flowing at a frenetic pace whilst enjoying the 3 course meal, entertainment and speeches.
It has been approximately eight years since I witnessed a Tiger victory at the G, and was really hoping it would be a drought breaking effort from the boys. Unfortunately, this did not eventuate. In fact, like some fellow Tiger heads stated, I thought the final margin was quite flattering.
Our boys simply did not have a red got go after quarter time ane were simply blown off the park by their mids, namely Watson and Stanton and if it wasn't for the effort of Chaplin, Rance, Newman and Houli in defence, the margin would've been 50+. IMO, the only youngster who took the game on and played (what I beleive) the best game of his short career is Vlastuin. Perhaps Deledio and some of the core senior players can take a leaf from Nick's book? In saying that, geez we missed the bullocking efforts of Tuck, Ellis and Conca on Saturday. Our mids were smashed and fringe players such as Lonergan are not the answer, whilst our player depth is still an omgoing issue!
All in all, it was a very dissappointing match and no doubt, changes MUST be made this week against the Eagles at Patersons. Players such as Nahas, McGuane and Lonergan thoroughly deserve to spend time in the VFL. Even Vickery looked out of sorts and should consider himself lucke if he retaines his spot on Sunday?
To cap it all off, it will be a bloody long time before I decide to plan my next footy trip to Melbourne after witnessing a dismal performance on the big stage AGAIN!!!

 

[thecotch]

It's been over 24 hours and yet I still can't comprehend how abysmal we were last night.

Our worst performance in 2 years IMO. And once again, in front of a huge crowd on the big stage. Dejavu.

We simply do not have a leader (ala watson) who stands up when the heat is on and takes the lead. Our mids were lauded earlier in the year to the extent that we supposedly had the best midfield in the comp. That's true when we play the Bulldogs of the world. Horribly exposed against the better sides.

We are brittle.

 

[Grechy]

IMHO LIds is an AA Half-back not in the midfield. He belongs at half-back with an occasional run in midfield ala Goodard. There is nothing wrong with that.

Everytime Vickery goes into the ruck we get slaughtered and lose momentum and his forward line work is hit and miss to say the least. Stephensen is more than competitive in ruck and can jag the odd goal as a forward. I would send Vickery back as the #1 ruck at Coburg until his ruck work is AFL ready.

Jackson is a liability. His tagging often has no effect and his disposal is no longer acceptable at AFL level. I want to replace Jackson with Arnot. No loss of strength there.

And finally A.Edwards is far better forward than McGuane.

We traded for Edwards. He may have been delisted if we didnt - but we did trade for him which means he wasnt delisted.

Edwards has kicked 124 goals in 82 games, with a 100 season in the VFL. What has McGuane done again?

That would leave us with Jack, Edwards and the 2nd ruck. Exactly what we have now except that the balance of the team is far better.

Except once the opposition has the ball Edwards becomes useless as he has no defensive game.

Furthermore when you are questioning depth you have to realise it will be nearly impossible to replace Conca/Tuck/Ellis/Grimes with VFL players. When you lose 1-2 you can cover but when you start losing 4-5 of your best 22 you see the holes. Look at Collingwood and how they're travelling without a few key players.

We need to start being realistic again.

 

[scarecrow2k1]

With selections this week, I worry about who will take West Coast's talls. We have Rance & Chaplin to take Darling & Kennedy, but then have no other tall currently to take Nic Nat or Cox when playing forward. I don't know if Griffiths is in line for a recall for this role but this scenario is giving me nightmares already

 

[Amon Fenorty]

Those calling for McBean to be an inclusion this week can't be serious. Just because his kicked a few goals in the VFL doesn't mean that it's going to eventuate to AFL level. Don't expect him to debut for at least another year. Have a look at Geelong and how they develop their younger blokes, don't expose them until they have consistently dominated the VFL.

 

[cairo tiger]

Those calling for McBean to be an inclusion this week can't be serious. Just because his kicked a few goals in the VFL doesn't mean that it's going to eventuate to AFL level. Don't expect him to debut for at least another year. Have a look at Geelong and how they develop their younger blokes, don't expose them until they have consistently dominated the VFL.

they gradually introduced their players- because they had leaders and stars already on the park. we dont have any. delidio, martin, cotchin are not leaders in the true sense or have taken the next step under hardwick. they should have but they have not. this is a problem for us. whilst I hear what you say I say their cant be any harm in throwing someone in. you cant say vickery is the star we wanted or needed, again his development is not happening. I would rather see big griff in there.

 

[tropicaltiger]

With selections this week, I worry about who will take West Coast's talls. We have Rance & Chaplin to take Darling & Kennedy, but then have no other tall currently to take Nic Nat or Cox when playing forward. I don't know if Griffiths is in line for a recall for this role but this scenario is giving me nightmares already

Astbury is ready and good enough, possibly Griffo too, wouldn't mind even seeing Rance have a run thru the midfield as well.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Astbury is ready and good enough, possibly Griffo too, wouldn't mind even seeing Rance have a run thru the midfield as well.

This is the one, if he's ready bring back Astbury

 

[copthat]

Only those 2? Wow.

How about Ryder, Bellchambers?
Plus many more.
The problem with Vickery is the following:

He may be able to play 2 positions on the field due to his height and athletic capabilities.
However, that doesn't mean that he is exactly good in both positions.
In fact, I think he is a below average ruck and an average forward.
Has kicked a brilliant total of 0 goals over the past 2 weeks which is not good enough, plain and simple.
Our problem is that with Vickery's insipid displays in front of goals, we are still far too predictable in looking for jumping Jack. Other teams have this figured out.
The fact that Luke Mcguane is our second highest goalscorer for the year is terrible.
Premiership forward line of Riewoldt and Mcguane? Doubt it. Would rather give youth a go.
In my opinion, if Vickery is to play, forget putting him in the centre bounces.
I think we can afford to keep him in the forward line the entire match (where he is much better) and play a second ruck.
May seem like a lot of talls in the side, but I think we need it.

These players are far more developed than Vickery, they simply have been in the AFL system for longer which is crucial to the development of talls. Granted Naitanui was in the same draft, but he is genetically freakish. Just need to be patient with Vickery, it's clear from his gait that he may take longer than others to perform consistently, but he has shown he is capable of producing high quality games. Talking about genuine ruck/forwards by the way, not just good ruckmen.

The KPPs from Vickery's draft haven't exactly been world beaters either:
Watts - We all know the story there
Hurley - Not amazing
Cordy - Very similar player to Vickery but output hasn't been great, injuries have played a part.
Shoenmakers - Seen as a bit of a weak link.
Liam Jones - Inconsistent like Vickery.

He's going OK.

 

[richolovesgoal]

As has been said now hundreds of times, no real positives. Thought the back half were surprisingly good, Rance, Chaplin and Batchelor all played well IMO. I don't understand the hate towards Batchelor, he often plays on taller, stronger opponents and does very well against them, also plays the extra man role great and seems to have a great football brain, he was one of my favourites from Saturday.

I don't know what's up with Cotchin, he's being good without being great, seems to have lost his spark the last month or so. Deledio... ehhhh. I also don't understand the venom directed at Grigg, yes he's not the most damaging player on the field, but he gets a lot of the ball, he always seem to be working to get free and be the link up player... When we are trying to rebound he always seems to be the one who gets free and takes the mark to get us out.

Ivan has lost it at the moment. Tyrone works hard just needs a bit more polish when finishing, not angry with him as others are.

Jack Riewoldt doesn't turn up in big games but kicks bags against stinky teams, can't beat quality defenders.

Why was Lonergan in? Provided nothing for mine. Nahas would be close to the worst player ever ever ever, amazing that a small forward isn't quick nor can stay down and crumb a ball. Goes to ground constantly, can't tackle, can't do anything.

Vlastuin close to best for us, hand a much cooler head than most of our experienced players which is sad. Kicks well, and is a smart user. Will be a super superstar.

Damien Hardwick... We smash bad sides and lose against good sides. We can never turn a game and need to start well and try to hold on. He is now one of the most experienced head coaches in the AFL and only seems to have one game plan, when things go pear shaped where is Plan B? He has one of the most talented lists in the AFL and excuses are running out unfortunately.

We have lots of injuries but so do most teams.

Very disappointing game, and I hate to say it but we looked like the Tigers of old.

 

[Grechy]

As has been said now hundreds of times, no real positives. Thought the back half were surprisingly good, Rance, Chaplin and Batchelor all played well IMO. I don't understand the hate towards Batchelor, he often plays on taller, stronger opponents and does very well against them, also plays the extra man role great and seems to have a great football brain, he was one of my favourites from Saturday.

I don't know what's up with Cotchin, he's being good without being great, seems to have lost his spark the last month or so. Deledio... ehhhh. I also don't understand the venom directed at Grigg, yes he's not the most damaging player on the field, but he gets a lot of the ball, he always seem to be working to get free and be the link up player... When we are trying to rebound he always seems to be the one who gets free and takes the mark to get us out.

Ivan has lost it at the moment. Tyrone works hard just needs a bit more polish when finishing, not angry with him as others are.

Jack Riewoldt doesn't turn up in big games but kicks bags against stinky teams, can't beat quality defenders.

Why was Lonergan in? Provided nothing for mine. Nahas would be close to the worst player ever ever ever, amazing that a small forward isn't quick nor can stay down and crumb a ball. Goes to ground constantly, can't tackle, can't do anything.

Vlastuin close to best for us, hand a much cooler head than most of our experienced players which is sad. Kicks well, and is a smart user. Will be a super superstar.

Damien Hardwick... We smash bad sides and lose against good sides. We can never turn a game and need to start well and try to hold on. He is now one of the most experienced head coaches in the AFL and only seems to have one game plan, when things go pear shaped where is Plan B? He has one of the most talented lists in the AFL and excuses are running out unfortunately.

We have lots of injuries but so do most teams.

Very disappointing game, and I hate to say it but we looked like the Tigers of old.

This is a perfect post.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

These players are far more developed than Vickery, they simply have been in the AFL system for longer which is crucial to the development of talls. Granted Naitanui was in the same draft, but he is genetically freakish. Just need to be patient with Vickery, it's clear from his gait that he may take longer than others to perform consistently, but he has shown he is capable of producing high quality games. Talking about genuine ruck/forwards by the way, not just good ruckmen.

The KPPs from Vickery's draft haven't exactly been world beaters either:
Watts - We all know the story there
Hurley - Not amazing
Cordy - Very similar player to Vickery but output hasn't been great, injuries have played a part.
Shoenmakers - Seen as a bit of a weak link.
Liam Jones - Inconsistent like Vickery.

He's going OK.

I hope you're right.
I just haven't seen any improvement in him since 2011 and as it stands, he is letting the team down in what is a very important position.
Isn't impacting the scoreboard at all and is more interested in mouthing off to the opposing defender.

We shall see.

 

[CoggaRules]

With selections this week, I worry about who will take West Coast's talls. We have Rance & Chaplin to take Darling & Kennedy, but then have no other tall currently to take Nic Nat or Cox when playing forward. I don't know if Griffiths is in line for a recall for this role but this scenario is giving me nightmares already

It will basically be a carbon copy of the game last year at Etihad...with one of the WC rucks playing out of the goals square for the entire night and probably being the difference in the end...
For this one I would be shelving the Ty has to be in the team thing and going Aazza Edwards - JR FL with say a McBean(hearing real good reports)...and bring in the big O to help out Ivan..and give Ty a rest in the 2s for about 5 weeks to get some real form..because right now he is nowhere near anything that resembles the required consistent form...Nahas has to be gone on saturday nights effort and i would be starting with White..as for the boys in Conca and Ellis, either one or both if fit go straight into and I would be hanging back on Axel as a sub in this one.....and FFS, Dimma wake up, if need be and we need something different, then get JR to move up the ground and plonk Dustin in the square and isolate him one on one with his opponent and kick it to them..not to a marking contest..just to an area and let the champ to do the rest...like FFS wake up!!

 

[Bird Man]

should have put morris on Watson

 

[Foleys Footy]

Robbie Nahas surely must never ever play again. As stated above by richolovesgoal how is it possible that you can be a small forward in an AFL team when you aren't quick (takes small steps makes him seem faster than he is), you don't tackle (effort in the centre of the ground in the second quarter after he slipped over to cost us a goal was disgusting), and in a forward line which boasts 3 talls can never actually manage a crumb? It is staggering to think that the same player was having games of 35 touches and 3 goals in 2011.

Even though we recruited the mature age players in the rookie draft to cover depth to avoid what happened in the second half of last year, it still seems like we have one of the worst depths in the league. When I heard Ellis was out and had a look at the emergencies (Edwards, Nahas, Dea) I didn't want any of them to come in, and yes, perhaps we've had more injuries than last year and I suppose it depends on which position goes down but to me it still seems like whenever we lose first 22 player we always have to bring in a shite one.

Shaun Grigg is another one that I want to address. I know every week if you look at his stats it seems like he has been one of the better players, but for me thats an example of the stats lying. He gets pointless possessions that go no where. However, my biggest issue with him is that when he doesn't have the ball he just labours. He doesn't have a second gear and whenever it's his turn to go, he doesn't. Very very frustrating footballer.

We are in dire need of a small forward. An Eddie Betts, a Lindsey Thomas..just someone who can crumb off the packs..am sick of seeing all 3 talls flying to a contest for the ball to come to ground and be cleared easily out (how many times on Saturday?)

Changes will be interesting this week, would like to see Arnott get a run just to see if he can get the ball out and play a tuck-esque role inside because thats clearly what we were missing on Saturday, absolutely towelled up out of the middle again. Lonergan and Nahas would be the 2 that I would of thought will make way but does anyone think we're a chance to take Maric, Stephenson and Vickery in an attempt to combat Nic Nat and Cox?

 

[Bruce Monteath]

For all the early season posturing, we don't have depth. We're Old Mother Hubbard - the cupboard is bare...

 

[CoggaRules]

I will bring this up again dudes and whatever anyone says about it, at the end of the day if you cant see WTFs dripping from every angle of it then I give up...rotations was the "valid" excuse for leaving a player on with a broken scapula for 5 minutes,when a game was over...that aint gunna go away from my mind as to why I think this coaching box aint what we think it is...or has it in it who we think we have dudes...and saturday night was a neon light...it was a mirror image of what Kneeld did against us...nothing but minimise damage..Unless tere is this grand plan incorporating a couple of kids who they think are answers, but are waiting for second half of the season to bring them in, then it will come down to the same as last year...winning the games we should to make the 8...and the way we are playing now...the suns will roll us and we all know what that means in the end .

 

[mactier]

Type, delete. Type, delete.

Hypothetically if McBean is brought in, he's is a 94kg first game beanpole who, if thrown into the ruck, will be facing off against the competitions premier ruckmen in Nic Nat & Cox and then if he finds himself in the forward line he'll be picked up by Glass. As much as I like him as a player and I'm excited about his development and what he will inject for us in a year or so's time, I can't see Dimma going for it in the slightest. Doesn't give us any advantage.

If we're going to take it to them this week then Maric needs a defined ruckman to support him. This is why we recruited Orren Stephenson, was it not? He has the body type. He averaged something like 28 hitouts in his first game for us against Port and we won the clearances more often than not with him in the middle. Maric can barely leap and clubs have that figured now. Bring in another element in Stephenson so they can both compete against their two talls, or rest Maric entirely.

Edwards in for McGuane or Vickery for mine, probably leaning more in the Ty direction if there are ANY queries over the state of his head. Again this provides us with a different element. He's been showing excellent form at VFL level and had the best goalkicking efficiency last year from set shots (or whatever that article a few months ago pointed out).

I'm sure there's more, I'm still just lost after Saturday.

 

[Damo80]

winning the games we should to make the 8...

And even that may not quite be enough... At first glance through our draw for the rest of the season, I have five wins (including GC), three losses, and five 50/50 games. Win half those 50/50's (Crows (H), North, Freo (H), Carlton, Essendon) without dropping a GC etc, and we're a chance. Not much room for error though.

 

[LegendakaRICHO]

west coast forward line who gets who?
lecras/ morris
kennedy/ chaplin
darling/ rance
hill/ batchelor
cox nic nat/ astbury/griffiths

 

[CoggaRules]

And even that may not quite be enough... At first glance through our draw for the rest of the season, I have five wins (including GC), three losses, and five 50/50 games. Win half those 50/50's (Crows (H), North, Freo (H), Carlton, Essendon) without dropping a GC etc, and we're a chance. Not much room for error though.

yeah same as last year..but last year we werent on a mission like this year...Suns again huh? LMAO....sheeeeeeeeesh